New LFR system is going to slow down gearing our toons drastically

[jerkface]

It gets trying on people who have the ability to comprehend words

This.
The number of dopes lacking basic reading comprehension is staggering. You are not rolling against 24 people. You are not rolling against anyone.

Blizzard will set a threshold that constitutes a "winning roll" and that is the only thing you are rolling against. If they set it at 35%, you will have a 35% chance to win a piece of loot from every boss, whether there are 24 people with you or you're alone. If they set it at 5%, you will have a 5% chance to win a piece of loot from every boss.

That doesn't make it easier to get items though and people seem to love this new system because they think they're going to be rocking full sets in a month.

Anyone claiming it will be faster or slower now is being outright retarded, as we can't definitively say without knowing what they set as a cut off to be a winning roll, which I doubt Blizzard has even decided on themselves.

[witch1]

Its that RNG that i despise, I have terrible rng, procs from transmutaion etc. Anything that requires rng on any of my toons and they are always at the bottom of the heap. Example to justify my complaint once I have a friend transmute inferno rubies we started out with the same amount of mats and then processed. results...he proc'd on almost every go and i proc'd twice for the extra. We did 15 transmutaions and he had 28 inferno rubies and i had 18. It was a way for me to quantify what I have suspected since BC I have terrible RNG luck. I run LFR every week on every toon I have and I am still missing 60% of the gear for MS. So now it seems that it may just get worse.

[BatteredRose]

Not much into math ?

actual system : 2 bow drops on madness, there's 2 hunter. 100% chance to loot.
actual system : 3 paladin/priest/lock token drops, there's 10 people needing. 30% chance to loot
new system : you have x% chance to loot (with X between 1-10% ?).

Still lot LESS chance to win, who cares that you roll no more against people but odd probabilities ? /me prefer competing for a loot than playing dice for random win.

What does your post have to do with mine? I said nothing of the probability of winning loot with the new system, I was merely showing part of the blue post that said other peoples' rolls will have zero effect on your own.

However, we don't know the % chance to win loot from any particular boss, so your assumption of 1%-10% could either be very wrong or very right (unless Blizzard did indeed state the %, but I haven't noticed that yet). And considering some of the group comps in LFR, your chances could very well be better. I've been in several LFRs where a metric fuckton of people had the ability to roll and get the role bonus, thus dropping my chances very dramatically to win. This way, it's a static chance to win something. Not to mention the random people that always roll need on everything, despite having said item(s). So yeah, I'll gladly take the new system.

[Dundebuns]

The way I understand it then, if players are rolling independent of others, it is now entirely possible for every member of an LFR raid to get a piece of loot off a boss all at once?

[Isuckatpvp]

A couple of things:

Yes, you'll be "rolling" against 25 other people. There is no disputing this. It happens on the back end. The (as yet to be determined number of) people who roll highest will get the gear that they can use. The "independent of other people" line is in reference to folks who roll on something they don't need so they can pass/shard/grief/whatever. It doesn't mean that your chances are any better than they are now. It's just mean to cut down on the "That DK needed and won Souldrinker why don't I get a bonus roll as a Pally tank?!?!?!?!" stuff. The only thing you know for sure is that if you win, you'll get gear that is spec appropriate.

You should still be able to do the "bring 20 alts and funnel gear" method because after that first run, those alts are no longer eligible for loot thereby negating any behind the scenes roll for that toon. It's not going to change from how it is now. If you downed a boss, you won't be able to re-queue and hope you get a better roll in 10 minutes. In fact, this will probably INCREASE the speed in which you gear through this method as there is a 100% chance you'll get something you need instead of hoping something drops.

Lastly, there will always be someone who bitches about loot because that's what they care about. No system short of everyone getting a drop will satisfy them so, it's kind of silly to really worry too much. LFR is a good way to learn some aspects of the real fights, see some content if you can't do regular raids, and maybe get some gear if you're lucky. Blizzard is trying to minimize the whining about people losing some piece of gear by making everything happen behind the scenes. That's all. You aren't going to get gear any faster because of it. Instead of seeing threads about how someone had "their" loot ninja'd, you're going to see ones about how "the system is obviously broken because I've run LFR for three months and haven't ever won a single roll". Trust me on that one.

[Flalia4]

Here's the thing though, if you DO win you are guaranteed a piece of loot that will benefit your class role.So no more seeing 4 bows drop with no hunter in the group!

[Ghosteh]

I think what needs a little further explanation on Blizz's part is how this AI chooses a winner.
If the current system drops 3 pieces of loot per boss, does that mean in the MoP system that it's 3 winners per boss? If this is the case then yes, the odds of gearing is worse off in the MoP system.
However, if the MoP system's AI has a more complex method of choosing winners, or perhaps, more winners are chosen, then the new system might be viable.
Or did I miss some detailed explanation somewhere regarding this issue other than the blue post.

[Mohammed]

The way I understand it then, if players are rolling independent of others, it is now entirely possible for every member of an LFR raid to get a piece of loot off a boss all at once?

Yes, though unlikely.

---------- Post added 2012-03-27 at 05:58 PM ----------

I think what needs a little further explanation on Blizz's part is how this AI chooses a winner.
If the current system drops 3 pieces of loot per boss, does that mean in the MoP system that it's 3 winners per boss? If this is the case then yes, the odds of gearing is worse off in the MoP system.
However, if the MoP system's AI has a more complex method of choosing winners, or perhaps, more winners are chosen, then the new system might be viable.
Or did I miss some detailed explanation somewhere regarding this issue other than the blue post.

It's here, multiple times in this thread. Everybody rolls 1-100. If Blizzard sets the threshold at 75, everybody who rolled a 75 or higher gets random spec-appropriate loot, no matter how many people that is.

[Franklinn]

Just a quick thought, with the new system it seems as though with the computer randomly selecting winners by that logic all 25 people are effectively "rolling" for items vicariously through the AI. So now instead of rolling against say 6 or 7 people, we're now rolling against 25 to even get chosen...

I feel as though this will really slow things down in terms of character gearing. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what my thoughts on the new system are as of yet, I think I will have to see it to get a good feel. I do think it should let you pick pieces off of a boss, or somehow work around the fact that you might not need the piece the system chooses.
I do not, however, think it will slow gearing down by much. The current system is weak for gearing because everyone rolls need on every piece they can, regardless of whether they need it, are rolling for someone else, want to trade or vendor it. This reduces the chances of people who legitimately need the gear, and greatly skews the rolls. There is also an issue with stacked groups, more than once I've queued in to roll on druid tier and have had 16+ vanq token users in the group, something which this new system will rid us of.

[jerkface]

Not much into math ?

actual system : 2 bow drops on madness, there's 2 hunter. 100% chance to loot.
actual system : 3 paladin/priest/lock token drops, there's 10 people needing. 30% chance to loot
new system : you have x% chance to loot (with X between 1-10% ?).

Still lot LESS chance to win, who cares that you roll no more against people but odd probabilities ? /me prefer competing for a loot than playing dice for random win.

Not much into logic?

Actual system: Nothing you can roll on drops. 0% chance to win loot.

You're throwing out extreme and random instances like "3 paladin/priest/lock tokens drop" and saying you have a 30% chance to win loot without addressing the extremely low odds of having three of the same token type drop off a boss. You also have no idea what the x% chance is at the moment.

Could Blizzard tune the winning % to make LFR gearing slower on average than currently? Sure.
But stop trying to act like you can say for certain with the information at hand and don't try to lecture others on math when your own example is entirely flawed and doesn't even address the full probability of a given situation.

[WarClark]

The new style isn't much different as compared to the old style. You indicate that it's like always having to roll for gear against 25 people each time the boss dies but it kind of already does that anyway. The bosses already drop random gear so if the boss drops an item you already have or don't need it's just like losing the roll before you even roll for it. This just makes it so you can focus killing the boss and moving on to the next one with out having to worry about some one ninja-ing gear or even having to wait for the rolls to finish.

The old style is like 2 rolls 1 first has a lower odd of winning where the second is a much better chance of winning. The problem is you only see the second roll that has a higher chance of winning. MoP just takes the second roll and merges it with the first.

[Odina]

It's here, multiple times in this thread. Everybody rolls 1-100. If Blizzard sets the threshold at 75, everybody who rolled a 75 or higher gets random spec-appropriate loot, no matter how many people that is.

I'm not going to say that is not how it will happen but it is highly unlikely as in that scenario it could end up no one win's loot for a boss kill as well! I really don't think they will implement a system where you can down a boss and no one that is eligible gets a piece of loot!

[microtonal]

Yes, you'll be "rolling" against 25 other people. There is no disputing this. It happens on the back end. The (as yet to be determined number of) people who roll highest will get the gear that they can use. The "independent of other people" line is in reference to folks who roll on something they don't need so they can pass/shard/grief/whatever.

Don't you think that if that was what they meant, that's what they would have said? I see no weasel words in the watercooler post. It clearly states that every individual player's roll is independent from everyone else's rolls.

The obvious implication of that is that the boss doesn't have X pieces of loot to give out to the top X rollers. It gives loot to everyone who rolls above a particular threshold, regardless of how many people that would be. It could be zero, it could be 25, it could be any number in between.

[Silverkit]

Im just glad there will be less loot sharded. And that Blizzard is finally looking at loot and the drama it causes. This is a solution to the drama loot causes with LFR, not the best but hey its better than how it is now.

[microtonal]

I'm not going to say that is not how it will happen but it is highly unlikely as in that scenario it could end up no one win's loot for a boss kill as well! I really don't think they will implement a system where you can down a boss and no one that is eligible gets a piece of loot!

How would that be significantly different from killing a boss that drops a bunch of loot that no one in the group wants or can use?

[meifumado]

What the new system will do is make it impossible to get OS gear, also will the new loot system be able to tell what items you have and not give you the same thing your wearing?

[Chrysia]

Don't you think that if that was what they meant, that's what they would have said? I see no weasel words in the watercooler post. It clearly states that every individual player's roll is independent from everyone else's rolls.

The obvious implication of that is that the boss doesn't have X pieces of loot to give out to the top X rollers. It gives loot to everyone who rolls above a particular threshold, regardless of how many people that would be. It could be zero, it could be 25, it could be any number in between.

While I agree this is the case, where your roll isn't against others, I suspect strongly that they will build in a max/min number of "winners." What that number will be, who knows, I just think it will likely happen.

[Isuckatpvp]

Don't you think that if that was what they meant, that's what they would have said? I see no weasel words in the watercooler post. It clearly states that every individual player's roll is independent from everyone else's rolls.

The obvious implication of that is that the boss doesn't have X pieces of loot to give out to the top X rollers. It gives loot to everyone who rolls above a particular threshold, regardless of how many people that would be. It could be zero, it could be 25, it could be any number in between.

If I'm not mistaken, and I certainly could be, I remember a post from a blue a couple of weeks ago that stated exactly that. There would be a certain amount of winners determined, and they would get loot. The roll takes place behind the scenes by the computer/server/something, and the top players get it. I haven't seen anything talking about an arbitrary threshold other than some posts in here (but that could be new since I don't patrol the forums for this stuff). If there was a blue who said something to that effect, cool. . .I just haven't seen it.

[Odina]

How would that be significantly different from killing a boss that drops a bunch of loot that no one in the group wants or can use?

In the new case : No sharding it, no offset piece, no use it for transmog.

[Chrysia]

What the new system will do is make it impossible to get OS gear, also will the new loot system be able to tell what items you have and not give you the same thing your wearing?

No, you can still get OS gear through 5-mans to get your OS ready for LFR.

No, you do not mystically always get useful loot, just usable. You can, still, just like previously, have the same item drop six weeks in a row.