Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained

[Senbo]

So is this a good or a bad thing?

kinda both, it keeps ppl from being ninjas BUT as anyone who has played swtor will tell you it gets annoying when you run something and wind up getting gear when you have the same or better.

[antelope591]

I think we're all missing how terribly disconnected Blizzard is with the way LFR loot works right now. How about, Item Drops, EVERYONE that can use the item rolls, no matter if they have the heroic version, normal version, raid finder version, or it isn't even a good item for them. Person proceeds to either troll, or try and trade that item for something else they want. This is how it works in reality.

Obviously they know what's going on hence the totally new system....durrr. And yea I don't see what people are complaining about. Just complaining for the sake of complaining. The new system is pretty much perfect for something like LFR. As opposed to everyone rolls need on every single item whether they need it or not.

[Azrile]

1. Does the algo check to see if the winner already has the item when choosing a loot?2. Can the same person be assigned more than one item from the same boss?3. If yes to 2, then can the same person be assigned the same item twice from the same boss?

No, the purpose of the new system is NOT to make it more efficient to get gear. Yes, you can win an item you already have.

No, you cannot win the same item twice from the same boss kill. You get a single roll when the boss dies, if you roll high, you get an item. You can get the same item two weeks in a row though, but not 2 copies of it in the same week. The exception to this is if you use one of the Lucky Charm thingies.. I think then it would be possible to get the same item twice on the same boss kill. Just to be clear, there are certain classes, especially people with dual specs who don´t mind getting the same item twice. It would be bad if Blizzard automatically kept you from getting them twice.

The important thing to remember is that bosses are not going to automatically drop 4 items per kill now. The boss will drop a number of items that depends on how many people roll high. Could be 1, could be 25. A lot of people seem to be confused about this part of it. The items a boss drops is determined AFTER players roll.

[Casper7mm]

what I'm curious about is on the bonus roll does that mean you have the possibility of winning 2 pieces of gear off of 1 boss?

[ak213jd]

While my kneejerk reaction is that this is perfect, seeing all these negative comments has me worried. I worry that people will find this system frustrating and confusing. Plenty of people here can't see to grasp the independent rolls concept, coming to the conclusion that they're stealing rolls or something from other people. I worry that this system might be flawed simply because people don't understand how probability works. With all the gamblers and lotto players in the world, I think this fear is justified. Maybe this would be fine if there were always someone there to explain it, but that won't always be the case. Plus, getting duplicates of one item might also be frustrating and discouraging even if the alternative is getting nothing. Maybe getting "something you don't need" 90% of the time is worse than getting nothing 90% of the time, on a psychological level.

[Azrile]

And people said SWToR was copying WoW... lol this is the exact loot system that SW uses in Normal Mode raiding. Great idea and saves sooo much drama its not funny... Just sad they had to steal it from SW.

And since you are new to MMORPGs.. let me point out that about 5 other MMORPGs before SWTOR had this type of loot system, including Rift which was released just last year and a bunch of games from years ago.

This is nothing new, the thing is, it was never needed in WOW.. and still is not needed in WOW except for LFR... This system would be absolutely stupid to put into real raids, or even 5 mans. LFR is a new system, and after seeing the loot drama, they decided they needed a new loot mechanism specifically for LFR.. so they used the one found in DDO.... er Rift... er.. heck.. most other MMORPGs for LFR.

[Deleted]

I didn't actually think GC could be any more clear. I like the changes, they sound like a step in the right direction.

[nghtmr]

this looot system sucks where do i get my offspec gear for tanking if im dpsing i don't unless they add an option that makes it so you can receive offspec gear

[Nadev]

Loving the new changes, Blizz. Used to nearly kill myself trying to Valor cap four different characters.The only thing that's currently good about the Raid Finder system is getting in a group and being the only rogue or one of two/three shamans, hunters, melee, etc.

[TrueProphecy22]

So, epics come only from bosses, as people have been shouting for for years, and you use valor points to +1 most equipment instead of buying things?

[Awbee]

Because you are wrong. You are starting out thinking of ´boss drops 4 items´.. FORGET THAT. FORGET EVERYTHING YOU THINK Ok.. now lets start over.

Boss has loot table that contains 15 different items. a few items for every spec more or less (lots of overlaps for plate dps specs etc). The loot table would be very similar to what bosses have now.

Boss dies.. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT... NO LOOT IS GENERATED YET!!!! ( read GCs post again.. no really, read it again, he specifically says this)
Every player has a roll made for them
Every player who rolls over 85 wins and item.
If you are one of the players who beat 85, then the game looks at the boss´s loot table and you are awarded one of the items that fits your spec.
IMPORTANT!! THE LOOT IS GENERATED AFTER AFTER AFTER the players roll. (read GCs post again)

DEATH, ROLL, LOOT Generated. If a person rolls 84 and fails to make the cut-off for winning loot, it does not matter if you rolled a 1, 94 or figured out a clever way to ´pass´.. that other player STILL is not getting gear.

Thanks, but I knew very well that the gear is only generated afterwards.

However, I don't think the system works like "Every player who rolls over 85 wins an item". If it was true, this would mean that sometimes 25 players would get loot, and sometimes zero. A blue on the official forums has said that they don't know whether this is possible. So, the system at least currently is sadly not as easy as that.

It's looking far more likely that just a certain amount of players will get loot. They will get it based on their spec. The problem is, if these players are all very well equipped already, they'll just get gold, or loot that they can't use.

So it's possible that you down a boss, but no one gets upgrades, because all the people who do get loot already outgear the raid. THAT is what I see as potentially very frustrating.
Of course, for GC it's amazing, because it means progression is slowed and people take longer gearing up, i.e. they don't need new content as fast. That's a shitty reason for frustrating players on purpose, though.

[Deleted]

this looot system sucks where do i get my offspec gear for tanking if im dpsing i don't unless they add an option that makes it so you can receive offspec gear

You get it the same way you got your DPS gear, by working for it and playing that spec.

I have a character that has full offspec gear for a spec I have never played.... to me that is wrong.

Playing the spec to get the gear, I think is the way forward.

[Azrile]

this looot system sucks where do i get my offspec gear for tanking if im dpsing i don't unless they add an option that makes it so you can receive offspec gear

This is my issue too. I play a moonkin, but build my tanking set during a tier and then start pug tanking in the middle of a tier. I don´t like to PUG or LFR tank being on the low side of the gear required. I know a lot of people who do the same thing with healing.

I guess the intent is that we go back and do slightly older content, then we can use our VP to upgrade the gear we get from that. There will also be rep vendors like before.

It was going to be one of my recommendations to GC is to watch the queues and see if the number of tanks decreases. But really, I would prefer they just do what they mentioned and add a checkbox so that we can opt-in to receive off-spec gear during LFR rolls.

[Mithan]

The system looks good to me.

[Synche]

You get it the same way you got your DPS gear, by working for it and playing that spec.

I have a character that has full offspec gear for a spec I have never played.... to me that is wrong.

Playing the spec to get the gear, I think is the way forward.

^

Use 5 mans, gear up your off spec and run LFR as your off spec if you wish to get an off spec item, don't seem to think that you are a special snow flake because you want to take gear over someone else.

I applaud this new system and it will remove any of the actually "ninja'ing" that is seen in LFR today with people rolling on loot and trading it to friends etc.

LFR is great for the casual crowd and helps those that don't have time for a raid schedule (like myself currently). But it is also not the be all end all of raiding.

[NineSpine]

Thanks, but I knew very well that the gear is only generated afterwards.

However, I don't think the system works like "Every player who rolls over 85 wins an item". If it was true, this would mean that sometimes 25 players would get loot, and sometimes zero. A blue on the official forums has said that they don't know whether this is possible. So, the system at least currently is sadly not as easy as that.

It's looking far more likely that just a certain amount of players will get loot. They will get it based on their spec. The problem is, if these players are all very well equipped already, they'll just get gold, or loot that they can't use.

So it's possible that you down a boss, but no one gets upgrades, because all the people who do get loot already outgear the raid. THAT is what I see as potentially very frustrating.
Of course, for GC it's amazing, because it means progression is slowed and people take longer gearing up, i.e. they don't need new content as fast. That's a shitty reason for frustrating players on purpose, though.

"The personal loot system will initially be used for Raid Finder and for world bosses. We want to use it for world bosses because we want it to be fairly easy to form PUGs to take down these bosses when they're up. If my raiding guild is about to take on a world boss, and some lonely hunter is asking to join the group (it's always a lonely hunter, isn't it?), it would be nice to be able to bring him on without worrying about that jerk taking loot away from me or my friends. We want to foster a "the more the merrier" attitude with world bosses.

This is why it's so important to us that the size of the group shouldn't matter. We don't want guilds to try to kill a world boss with the smallest number of players necessary in order to maximize loot per player. When everyone has their own chance at loot, why not make the group as large as you can?"

Stop finding fake reasons to be upset. It's obvious you are wrong.

[Awbee]

Use 5 mans, gear up your off spec and run LFR as your off spec if you wish to get an off spec item, don't seem to think that you are a special snow flake because you want to take gear over someone else.

This will mean that once again I'll be stuck in the dps role for at least the first, maybe the second patch. Maybe I'm a bad player, yadda yadda, but I can't for the life of me heal a dungeon unless I at least slightly outgear it. (I.e. healing Heroic Grim Batol in all 353 gear.) Same goes for tanking. Yet, I love tanking and healing. I was immensely frustrated at the beginning of Cata by the fact that I wasn't able to heal at all anymore.

I applaud this new system and it will remove any of the actually "ninja'ing" that is seen in LFR today with people rolling on loot and trading it to friends etc.

You know what would also remove the ninja'ing, and do so in a much simpler way? Making it impossible for people to need on items if they have an item of equal or better item level in that slot, whether equipped or in their bags. Such a simple solution.

[Bogrim]

Okay, you know what? I was digging this until I got to the crap about bonus rolls. Blizzard, you know that the issue with daily quests being boring and all is that DAILY QUESTS ARE BORING because you fail to pump out new content and expect people to be entertained by fireland daily quests for several months when they could in fact just not subscribe and spend the money on a different game like let's say, oh Skyrim, that offers a whole world instead of just a little cramped zone full of repetitive content? Just stop. Stop with all the daily quest nonsense and start giving people reason to just play the game they want to play it. It's not, "Hey, here's some extra chance at some candy if you play this for a little longer." By the gods I don't want my motivation to do daily quests to be being frustrated with not having a bonus roll while everyone else does, and that's just a fucking retarded way to motivate your players.

[Mackeyser]

If GC really thinks that TANKS especially are going to go all old school and gear up by doing old content... he's cracked. I'll do it because I'm rerolling Brewmaster. MT'd as a Pally in BC and that was my main in Vanilla. Switched to Ele and went back and forth in Wrath. Ele all through Cata. I'm totally fine going old school. New players just...aren't. And I understand that and I don't criticize new players when they don't want to do it old school ways. The reality is that tanking queues have always been an issue and offspec gearing was one of the best ways to gear tanks, especially in the LFR. Without that and with the ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE ATTITUDE of so many dps towards LFD tanks, does Blizz really think melee dps with tank offspecs will sign up for that abuse just so that they can gear up an offspec they may or may not use very often? In many cases, I don't. Once again, even with more tanking possibilities, I think we'll see queue times go up.

[Azrile]

Thanks, but I knew very well that the gear is only generated afterwards.

However, I don't think the system works like "Every player who rolls over 85 wins an item". If it was true, this would mean that sometimes 25 players would get loot, and sometimes zero. A blue on the official forums has said that they don't know whether this is possible. So, the system at least currently is sadly not as easy as that.

It's looking far more likely that just a certain amount of players will get loot. They will get it based on their spec. The problem is, if these players are all very well equipped already, they'll just get gold, or loot that they can't use.

So it's possible that you down a boss, but no one gets upgrades, because all the people who do get loot already outgear the raid. THAT is what I see as potentially very frustrating.
Of course, for GC it's amazing, because it means progression is slowed and people take longer gearing up, i.e. they don't need new content as fast. That's a shitty reason for frustrating players on purpose, though.

That will definitely happen.. There will probably be many many many times when nobody gets an actual upgrade. Heck, it probably happened this week to most guilds who did DS. It happens on most boss fights at the end of a tier. I´ve been in 10 man raids going into a boss fight knowing that no matter what items dropped, nobody needed them.

I think that is fine in LFR also.. but what I think will be strange is if nobody wins any items at all. everybody rolls crap.. then I think people will actually notice it.. Which is why I posted early in this thread that I think Blizz will probably add a min and max number to how many people can win an item. But again, because we don´t see the rolls, we won´t know.