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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakia View Post
    It was never, ever hard to track down people who changed names. Those who tried to do so and avoid their reputation rarely ever escaped their status as pariahs.
    Plus, regardless of name, people retain their personalities through a name change or faction change. If they just change their name- the community will be quick to catch on who that individual is. If they transfer servers, then that community will be quick to learn how that individual is... thus repeating the cycle.

  2. #102
    I'm really glad to see that so many people agree with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nestoras View Post
    You sound a bit EMO.
    You also ignore that once this system is implemented it is becoming mandatory for the others, those that love chatting and interacting to use it.
    Well guess what, without lfg tool it is a mandatory to the antisocial part of players to do dungeons manual way. Who said who's more important? Swtor not doing so well lately without good fully automatic lfg tool, let's finally add it to the game and see how it does then. Can't be worse than it is now. Also if it becomes a mandatory, if people accept and use it, maybe majority likes it after all?..

    It has already come, the game is called World of Warcraft, and no not trollin', as a player since vanilla that has played the game in most different environments you can think of be it hardcore to ultra casual, I can say it has done a full turn to cater to the solo player, the casual guy with less than an hour to play per sitting and the less skillfully inclined. The only "hardcore" content left is heroic raiding for about 8-10 weeks, after that it's handed down through nerfs to keep the rest of the player base happy for a couple of months extra.
    Sadly, not true. In fact I'd put WoW as the most social game out there for a hardcore player. There's (correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't touch WoW for a year by now) absolutely NO way in hell to get top gear pve or pvp wise in WoW by playing solo. You absolutely MUST have a group/guild, be it raid, arena or rated bg. And even though I'm perfectly fine and agree that pve gear should be available through raids only, I highly dislike to the point of not playing wow at all that I have to be in a premade party to do even a rated bg. Ppl's requirements for such a party are ridiculous. If I (a player with years of experience, battlemaster, someone who cleared practically whole tbc and wotlk on any mode back in times) would decide to come back now to wow, I'd face a total inability to join any rated bg premade and would unlikely get into any decent guild either.

    Other players are just "tools" to you? This is exactly the kind of player/attitude we're trying to filter OUT.
    You won't "filter" us out. Developers forcing us, more "lone wolf" players to play mmos because there's not enough good single player games out there, and because, as I already pointed out in details, it's just more fun to play versus real people due to the intellect. I'd discribe whole situation somewhat like this... Some tribe, a nice peaceful community lives on an island. Then a pirate ship crashes and pirates are stuck on that island with this local tribe. They HAVE to live together, they can't do anything about it. But they're totally different kinds of people. So local tribesmen trying to keep their rules, while pirates who dislike it, try to fight to change these rules to fit their lifestyle more.

    I seriously think that when people talk about 'server community' they are really just saying "me and my friends" or "me and my guild".
    Also this. So someone has been lucky/nice/social enough to get his own party of people who play with him? He does premades so he's covered in pvp and he does dungeons and maybe even raids so he's covered pve-wise also. Ofc he wouldn't want other players to be same succesful in that game, he wants to be special. And with automatic crosserver tools everyone has much higher chances to be sucessful and he and his friends just become "one of many".

    Everything else been said already. Sorry for some hostility, but "social" people are seriously ruining my gameplay experience and I WILL fight it even if it'll put me against good half of ppl on server/forums/whatever. The other half will be on my side, more than enough.


    Edit: Sorry I missed this:
    The dungeon finder is coming in 1.3. What's left to discuss, really?

    It'll be intra-server to start and I think that'll be enough of a solution for 90% of the playerbase. Combine it with some sort of server consolidation and we've got a winner.
    Intra server. As in, a server that my ex-main War Hero commando with half rakata gear is at, had about 15 ppl at fleet plus about 20 more in warzones at the peak time every day by now. Damn, sounds like I'll be able to run them dungeons all day long now, eh?

    Edit 2: someone told a nice story about some asshole here who ninjaed item from him once etc. Sure, we should ALL suffer because of one idiot now. Idiots are everywhere, nobody safe from them.

    Off: W00t Dreadlord. Sounds good to me. Goodbye stupid mechagnome.
    Last edited by VincentWolf; 2012-03-29 at 12:21 PM.
    "Your people are despicable cowards, orc, you're nothing more than rabbid dogs! And you will be put down!"

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by VincentWolf View Post
    Well guess what, without lfg tool it is a mandatory to the antisocial part of players to do dungeons. Who said who's more important? Swtor not doing so well lately without good fully automatic lfg tool, let's finally add it to the game and see how it does then. Can't be worse than it is now. Also if it becomes a mandatory, if people accept and use it, maybe majority likes it after all?..
    Except, the game is doing well without it, and there is little to no proof that if it is struggling it is solely due to lack on dungeon finder. If it becomes mandatory, and people use it, it doesn't mean the majority like it after all, it means they have to use it. People have to pay their taxes. It doesn't mean the majority like paying taxes, it means they have to.

  4. #104
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    Server only and demands you go to the instance would be my conditions. LFD screwed WoW up so bad that not only is there really no player interaction outside of trade/guilds, but it discourages player interaction outside of trade/guilds.
    Scratch a cynic and you'll find a disappointed idealist - George Carlin (1937-2008)

  5. #105
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    I honestly cant understand why people dont want a server only LFD.
    If you dont like it, dont use it. You can still arrange groups the old fashioned way.
    I would most likely never use the LFD tool, because I rather play with friends that I know than a random peep with no clue what so ever. With that said I think SWTOR needs a LFD tool, for all thoose that dont mind playing in PUGs, that have a very limited amout of time online.
    I hope the LFD tool will teleport players to the flashpoint, so people dont have to wait for people to finish their quests or anything else.
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  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Lore Lord View Post
    This attitude expresses everything that is wrong with today's _________.
    I'm sorry, but this is so distasteful.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakia View Post
    It was never, ever hard to track down people who changed names. Those who tried to do so and avoid their reputation rarely ever escaped their status as pariahs.
    And its not that hard to add someone who acted like an idiot in a dungeon finder group to your block list and never see them again.

    Instead of arguing against a lfg tool you should be arguing for more powers to not grp with people who have pissed you off already. i.e. longer(infinite) block lists, not auto-grouping with blocked players, maybe a preferred player list to grp with, that you can add players you've enjoyed playing with before.
    Coupled with there being no real reason to run flashpoint hardmodes, a lack of a lfg is one of the biggest reasons why i stopped playing. In general i can only do group activities in the evenings and even then my time is pretty limited, so say i have an hour to play. In WoW or Rift i can log in and, if my friends list/guild are offline/busy i can queue up while i go do some dailies. By the end of my hour i can have got some dailies done and run 1-2 instances. Last time i played SW i logged in spammed chat in fleet for nearly 25 minutes trying to find anyone who didnt just want to do HM BT, before realising that even if by some miracle i got a full group i didnt have enough time left complete the instance.

  8. #108
    This is a very interesting topic and definitely has it's pros and cons. Using wow as an example.

    I can tell you without a doubt it was bad for recruiting local realm/server raiding talent and getting to know who the players were that would fit in with your guild and who had potential when you did heroic dungeons with them.

    Also I made a lot more friend in game without the LFD tool because people would become more comfortable playing with you often and would start to open up on other stuff besides the game building up closer relationships. This is probably why burning crusade was my favourite expansion as it combined great content with great community.

    Now why did blizzard feel they needed to make the switch? There is a lot of reasons and I will list them here.

    1) Player convenience, after a hard day you sometimes just don't have the energy to form a group and deal with people.
    2) Time saver, allows you to do other stuff instead of using that time to form a group.
    3) Giving bad/attitude players a chance to experience more content. ( Don't laugh if you had a tarnished reputation on your realm you would have to xrealm)
    4) Low Pop realms????? I was on a low pop realm and it never became a problem until 10 and 25 man raiding was made equal in cata, when the 25 raiding guilds died a lot of the community died with them forcing people to xrealm to get some life around them.

    Now I personally can't judge blizzard for implementing this tool. It probably made sense to do so since majority of the playerbase is casual and LFG caters directly to them.

    So what other areas would a tool like this affect? Well it affects the amount of future GM and officers that could come about. Reason being as they get to know less players in there surroundings and as I predicted a year ago they would need to make a LFR tool to make up for the GM and officers that have quit the game and a environment that doesn't encourage new ones.

    Like everything in life all decision are like tug of war and finding a good balance is really the best you can do.

    As for SWTOR the LFG tool for server only combines the best of both, you still grouping with players on your own server and you get the convenience factor thrown in with the only down side that low pop realms wouldn't benefit from it so much.
    Last edited by DreamCast; 2012-03-29 at 10:40 AM.

  9. #109
    @DreamCast: It's understandable that guild leaders/officers want to know more about some player before recruiting him, but this breeds elitism so I'm all up for ridding them of this ability. If only leaders of my past games knew how I talk to people in warzones when they do something incredibly stupid and cost me a game (mind you, it's all well deserved, I never insult without a reason, but somebody more kind would stop at 3d ancestor, I express my feelings towards said player lineage up until ancient Greece), I'd be forever guildless in any game...


    About lfg tool: why not make an option if you want to group up with everyone, or your server only? Would be a good partial solution to all this whine.
    Last edited by VincentWolf; 2012-03-29 at 12:43 PM.
    "Your people are despicable cowards, orc, you're nothing more than rabbid dogs! And you will be put down!"

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tannaya View Post
    Instead of arguing against a lfg tool . . .
    I didn't argue against it.

    I will admit that I was against a cross-realm LFG at the outset of the game. However, that was because the server populations where fine. Now, I would say that we either need a cross-realm LFG or server mergers and local LFG only.

  11. #111
    Those of you who use the "social" argument are hypocrites. I am a very social person, and I work in software. When I am around, the shyest most anti-social people are engaged and talk. If a group isn't being social, it's not because the Xserver LFG tool ruined everyone, it's because I don't feel like making an effort.

    I have had so many great and chatty WoW LFG groups simply because I took the time to say nice things and be social. When the others made a mistake, I would correct it in a POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE manor, and I have been thanked for it. I even spent many hours after a run was done to walk a DPS I was tanking for through his rotation and abilities and weapons so he could improve. He thanked me and I was sad I couldn't friend him because he was from another server.

    The group is only as social as the people inside it, no matter the tool. Make an effort, don't be lazy (ironic since most of you are calling those of us who want LFD convenience lazy), and be social. Real social, not this fake engineered crap where you whine about lacking tank / healer and how your guild can down hard mode content (hint: it's not that hard...)

    I didn't argue against it.

    I will admit that I was against a cross-realm LFG at the outset of the game. However, that was because the server populations where fine. Now, I would say that we either need a cross-realm LFG or server mergers and local LFG only.
    I agree, even my server (started with a high queue) has only 50 republics in fleet at a time on peak hours, maybe 75 on Saturday.

    To be fair, the population imbalances and low / medium servers aren't the reason I quit. The main reason I quit was because of the lack of convenience. I don't have more then an hour to play every night (I have cooking, cleaning, working out, and spending time with the spouse to do), maybe 3 on weekends. And if I can't get anything meaningful done, I won't pay for the game.

    When Dual spec and LFG tools are in, then I might resub, I had a lot of fun with the game, but with two lvl 50's I don't want to level up anymore. (With WoW, I can level up four chars without rehashing quests, since heirlooms and dungeons allow me to alternate zone skipping)
    Last edited by Rakoth; 2012-03-29 at 01:46 PM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by VincentWolf View Post
    Edit: Sorry I missed this:

    Intra server. As in, a server that my ex-main War Hero commando with half rakata gear is at, had about 15 ppl at fleet plus about 20 more in warzones at the peak time every day by now. Damn, sounds like I'll be able to run them dungeons all day long now, eh?

    Edit 2: someone told a nice story about some asshole here who ninjaed item from him once etc. Sure, we should ALL suffer because of one idiot now. Idiots are everywhere, nobody safe from them.
    I guess you're part of that tiny percentage that will never be satisfied. You conveniently glossed over the part where I said a server merger/consolidation was also needed. When you solve the population issues you remove any justification for cross-realm LFG. What we're getting will work if you'll shut up about it not being exactly like WOW just long enough to give it a chance.

    And no one is suffering, spare me the melodrama.
    ^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".

  13. #113
    The thing is that swtor SHOULD have learned all the lessons it took wow 7 years to learn.

    The players changed. They evolved. They consume content much faster and have higher expectations each day, month, year. It`s normal.

    I am upset/disappointed because they(bioware) did not implement it(lfg tool) from the start, since they should have learned WoW`s lessons(and the wow LFG tool for dungeons and RAIDS helped the wow community ALOT).

    I guess I`m more disappointed than upset.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by rogerwilko View Post
    The thing is that swtor SHOULD have learned all the lessons it took wow 7 years to learn.

    The players changed. They evolved. They consume content much faster and have higher expectations each day, month, year. It`s normal.

    I am upset/disappointed because they(bioware) did not implement it(lfg tool) from the start, since they should have learned WoW`s lessons(and the wow LFG tool for dungeons and RAIDS helped the wow community ALOT).


    I guess I`m more disappointed than upset.
    World of Warcraft is made by Blizzard.Star Wars the Old Republic is made by Bioware. They are not the same people. I don't expect the developers of SWTOR would spend their time shaking down Ghostcrawler or Metzen for ideas. Instead I'd rather they do exactly what their doing now. Listen to their fan base and implement the systems that people want. If the result is the same so be it. However I don't think slavishly copying and imitating everything Blizzard has done in the name of "the players have changed look at what blizzard went through" is a good idea. I'd rather not have a developer work with that mindset, it's stifling.

  15. #115
    lol ok.
    don`t kid yourself, it`s not the developer`s decision what to implement.
    Check the official forums and see how many ppl from the "fan base" demand a lfg tool and server transfers. Then come here and kiss their a***s because bioware is so original.

  16. #116
    Ultimately it is their choice. If their smart they'll do what their fanbase wants. That does not mean they have to do every single fucking thing Blizzard did. I routinely check the official forums and yea people want lfg, soooo lfg is coming. I don't see how thats contradictory to what I said in the slightest. I also don't see why adopting certain systems that were in Blizzard games means BW has to implement everthing. Like I don't think Arena should be in SWTOR. I hope the developers agree. I don't think LFR should be either. IF people demand those things we'll see them. Why can't swtor be different?

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    I routinely check the official forums and yea people want lfg, soooo lfg is coming. I don't see how thats contradictory to what I said in the slightest.
    You also noticed the thread Title? it`s called "why are we S T I L L not getting a dungeon finder".

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by VincentWolf View Post
    Sadly, not true. In fact I'd put WoW as the most social game out there for a hardcore player. There's (correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't touch WoW for a year by now) absolutely NO way in hell to get top gear pve or pvp wise in WoW by playing solo. You absolutely MUST have a group/guild, be it raid, arena or rated bg. And even though I'm perfectly fine and agree that pve gear should be available through raids only, I highly dislike to the point of not playing wow at all that I have to be in a premade party to do even a rated bg. Ppl's requirements for such a party are ridiculous. If I (a player with years of experience, battlemaster, someone who cleared practically whole tbc and wotlk on any mode back in times) would decide to come back now to wow, I'd face a total inability to join any rated bg premade and would unlikely get into any decent guild either.
    To gear for PvE these days in WoW takes you about 10 hours depending on gear, from leveling gear to be able to enter LFR, after that it's up to luck a bit, finding a descent guild really isn't all that hard either, might have to jump guild once if you want to raid heroics and perhaps twice if you want a reasonably good heroic guild.

    I didn't gear up a character in PvP gear the same way so hard to tell on the time investment required but doubt it much longer to get a full set of the lower PvP gear, after that it's up to you doing arena games each week or rated BG's. Now arena can be done with any random guy, something people ask for frequently so shouldn't be an issue, rated BG's does come with a requirement to join usually but then again you don't want to make an effort towards group oriented game play so I don't see it as an issue, can't force people to bring some one to their team or PUG for that matter, unless ofc you join a PvP guild, something I saw advertised a lot looking for members.

    At the end of the day you can't get high-end game play that is group oriented without being social to some extent, high-end raiding means you need a guild, high-end PvP mean you need a arena team or a rated BG team, alternatively a PvP guild good enough to just bring whom ever is on for rated.

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentWolf View Post
    About lfg tool: why not make an option if you want to group up with everyone, or your server only? Would be a good partial solution to all this whine.
    This would still force everyone to use it but diminish the pool of players that goes server only hence forcing them to go cross server for a chance of a reasonable queue time, if there is a lazy option the majority will take it.
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by rogerwilko View Post
    You also noticed the thread Title? it`s called "why are we S T I L L not getting a dungeon finder".
    Except that you are. Or some form of it. If were going by the threat title than this thread is pretty meaningless at this point.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Ultimately it is their choice. If their smart they'll do what their fanbase wants. That does not mean they have to do every single fucking thing Blizzard did. I routinely check the official forums and yea people want lfg, soooo lfg is coming. I don't see how thats contradictory to what I said in the slightest. I also don't see why adopting certain systems that were in Blizzard games means BW has to implement everthing. Like I don't think Arena should be in SWTOR. I hope the developers agree. I don't think LFR should be either. IF people demand those things we'll see them. Why can't swtor be different?
    Welcome to MMO's. Where everyone uses everyone elses ideas. World of Starwarcraft is no different.

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