Shadowstep is dead.

[mea]

Because Preaparation is bad.
Ah, also leeching poison.
Oh, Subterfuge that lets you use 3 openers and/or run in flares and still get an openerfor teh lulz
Did i mention Anticipation? It's a so good talent that it's comparable to the time when energy regen got from 20 every 2 seconds to 1 each 0.1 seconds.

Totally bad.

---------- Post added 2012-03-30 at 01:35 PM ----------



Tbh it's not mandatory for PvE. For sure it will be the most widely useful, but high mobility fights will favor a lot more shadowstep, and if you can use the BoS dispel a lot, again it would be really useful.

Remeber that the biggest dps increase is the uptime increase.

Subterfuge might only counter damage done ands taken as a stealth protection. Still a retarded handholding talent like bleeding through blind, though.

Edit: i was wrong. They made it completely retard friendly regardless of what you do.

[Bisque]

on the plus side all the moaning and aching about rogues prepping smoke bomb will be gone,"blah blah over power 2x smoke bomb etc..."

[Itisamuh]

I would take shs over bos any day. But really, both of them are dead, because every pvp rogue will take prep. Smoke bomb being taken off it is no big deal to me, but people will always find something to complain about I guess.

[asharia]

bos is terrible, step is terrible, and now prep has no second bomb. in other words we are royally fucked

you mean, now you're on the same level as everyone else except frost mages?

[Niyari]

60 energy will make it very situational unless you're okay with gimping your damage/CP generation.

[Knuckle]

Glad its off the glyph, now we won't be balanced around it.

[Sorzzara]

Not saying I don't agree with how good BoS is but...

1) BoS breaks stealth.
2) Using paralytic poison means no crippling poison, so most of the time it won't be used. Not to mention cheat death...
3) The energy cost is pretty huge. At 70 energy that's 3 - 5 seconds.

1) Wasn't aware it breaks stealth, my bad, I'm not in the beta, and such information is not provided in the spell description.
2) As I said, I despise Cheat Death...never used it, and never will. No crippling with paralytic, oh my! Now we just have an innate 15% Speed increase, complete immunity against stuns and snares, random stuns and A FREAKIN ROOT! to stay on our targets.
3) Its 60. Yes, that is a BIG difference. You are way off with 5 sec (or you don't count energy regenerating abilities of the speccs, which is both lame, and manipulative) and oh my...3 secs. worth of energy...which, as I mentioned above is wasted anyway if you are not on your target.

I am, and I think that's what disturbs most of you, not saying that rogue-PvP will get easier, on the contrary. It will get harder, it will take time to adapt, and yes, maybe we need to hope for a fix on the blizzard side of things here and there...but what I find in this thread, is nothing, but a big, steamy heap of "oh QQ, easymode is gone, wah wah!"

Then on the other hand...maybe this is a good thing...after the "yay, legendaaaaary and PvPOPness" - Roguerush, the comm will shrink down to its healthy, former level, while al the simpletons move on to the next FOTM...

[Vital]

As I said, I despise Cheat Death...never used it, and never will.

Any serious pvper uses CD, as Neilyo says even if it saves your life in 1 match out of 40 it was worth it. Basically it's just another example of talents we already have being put into a tier where we essentially cannot choose the talent and therefore it might as well just be removed from the game. The problem with this talent system is that you can never sacrifice a few smaller things to get one big thing, every talent you sacrifice tends to be something major and because most of the Rogue talents are things we already have we are sacrificing the most of our current toolset out of any class. That is the picture people aren't seeing imo, as well as the major loss of passive talents like Puncturing Wounds which will completely destroy our burst potential.

[Bluegirl91]

Any serious pvper uses CD.

You mean every serious arena player.
In BGs and rBGs that talent isn't a very good choice. But for the rest of your post, I agree somewhat.

[Sorzzara]

Any serious pvper uses CD,...

A little hint: Arena PvP is neither the Pinnacle of PvP, nor is it a measure for the quality of a player concerning PvP. I fancy myself being quite good at eradicating everything with a red name on its head, and I only step into the arena to fill the weekly cap. To remind you: Arena was there second, nothing but a fancy Idea to make money of eSport Events...thats what Arena PvP is for real. You're looking for "serious PvP"? Welcome to the BG (be it random or rated)...welcome to open PvP (which I hope will be rekindled once MoPs hits). And in those non-Lab-Environments, where you have no buddy with you to look after your ar*e, where you have quickly changing, unexpected situations, the value of CD drops like a stone. Arena PvP neither is, nor should ever be the measurement of ANYTHING regarding PvP, be that balancing, talents, Iitems or whatnot.

That being said, I move on to the rest of your post. The problem with you is, that you are not willing to sacrifice ANYTHING, thats the bitter truth. Right now, we rogues have it all: Control, Mobility, Survivability, Burst, Sustained dmg. You could disagree of course, everyone is entitled to his opinion, but doing so would reveal a serious lack of experience with the class...'cause right now, we are close to the god-likeness we had in tbc...Of course, this is fun for a while, but for the serious pvpers (see what I did there? Right back atcha ) it gets boring pretty damn fast. Why? Because every rogue plays like everyother rogue...and that's got to be a problem as well, because it made us predictable...When cata started, i went for an Assassination Survivability specc, and more often than not cracked open opponents where my Sub Mateys failed...simply because they where never prepared for what I did to them (example being OTHER ROGUES, trying to vanish with Vendetta still up :P)
In the future, we will have to chose...do i need/want more mobility? Do I want to shadowstep? Do I want randomstuns and root or do I go for selfheal? Not only will it make us interesting again, it will also be unpredictable for our enemies.

Of course, one could also just stick his head in the sand and gajibber on about how "they completely destroy our burst potential."

[Vital]

Sorzzara you sound like a 1300 rated player that only does random battlegrounds and can therefore spec whatever you want because it doesn't make a difference, you see it all the time on Rogue forums where people are asking for a good combat pvp spec etc. I mean rofl seriously. If you don't understand how Rogues are played at a high level in pvp and how we are reliant on certain talents and abilities to score kills then you aren't really able to comment on the balance of Rogues. Yes we are currently too strong, although it's largely due to the ridiculous pve gear, but the amount of nerfs we are receiving is completely over the top, and losing class defining abilities like shadowstep (well at least we were losing it until prep was nerfed as well) is just a slap in the face. Many of our new abilities like paralytic poison we can't even take because then we wouldn't even have a snare. I know it's only beta and things could change, but the CURRENT state of rogues in beta is just horrible from what I've seen, basically mediocre non bursty damage and insane survivability, how on EARTH is that in keeping with the history and style of Rogues?

[WaitingforMoP]

Shadowstep is FUN! You can't kill FUN! Especially since you can allegedly now Shadowstep to friendly targets.

[Brewski]

Shadowstep is an incredibly useful ability, if you think BoS is more useful WTF class are you playing? You can macro in a shit ton of abilities into Shadowstep and create a ton of clutch plays, whoever thinks shadowstep is useless either doesn't PvP or just sucks shit at the rogue class.

[Captaincrab]

70 energy for BoS. Also BoS gives movement speed OR freedom, not both. Still, yeah, BoS is quite a bit better than Shadowstep as a gap closer in pvp.

In PvE, however, Shadowstep will still be nice for combat rogues.

I'm really kinda iffy on that point. 70 Energy is a lot, and you won't get 70 energy back in 4 seconds of immunity to snares or you might be half way out of a snare before you have the energy to even hit it, on the other hand shadowstep puts you right on someone for free.

Point being, it's not a clear answer, which means it's a great but difficult talent choice.

[Coldkil]

Subterfuge might only counter damage done ands taken as a stealth protection. Still a retarded handholding talent like bleeding through blind, though.

Edit: i was wrong. They made it completely retard friendly regardless of what you do.

So, go play another class and leave the retards play rogues. Or you can also play another game if you don't like the changes.

Your post brings nothing to the discussion.

[Holo]

I'm really kinda iffy on that point. 70 Energy is a lot, and you won't get 70 energy back in 4 seconds of immunity to snares or you might be half way out of a snare before you have the energy to even hit it, on the other hand shadowstep puts you right on someone for free.

Point being, it's not a clear answer, which means it's a great but difficult talent choice.

It was 60 energy last time i checked? Did something change?

Anyways, from a PvP point of view.. BoS beats both Prep and ShS regardlessly. Because escaping roots has more use then just being able to damage.

[Vanadi]

It was 60 energy last time i checked? Did something change?

Anyways, from a PvP point of view.. BoS beats both Prep and ShS regardlessly. Because escaping roots has more use then just being able to damage.

I would probably say that Shadowstep is superior in Arenas because of vertical axis crap and being able to shadowstep to a friendly healer for loS etc etc.

BoS is vastly superior in Bg's though. Being able to remove slows/snares on demand and giving yourself immunity to them for 4 seconds is HUGE in group pvp.

[Holo]

Nah. Being able to escape roots at any point in time after dispells are nerfed is going to make BoS a take or go home talent.

There is nothing that even comes near.

[Vishiz]

One thing I have to remind everyone of is that they are redoing much of the system for MoP. While comparing today's game and talents to MoPs talents is not exactly "apples to oranges" it is like comparing "oranges to tangerines." Similar but still not the same thing.

Wait until the game comes out, test it and then make an informed decision based on your actual play testing.

Theres a reason its in beta now.

TESTING

We're supposed to be giving feed back now, not waiting till it's too late. They're 100x more likely to make a change now than they are once the game goes live.

And I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but besides this tier of talents, most of the stuff is pretty similar to what we already have, not too many classes are getting a complete overhaul to where we wont have any idea how shit is going to work. Most classes still function pretty similar to how they do now. And PvP wont change a whole lot from what it is now either.

[the_axi]

Nah. Being able to escape roots at any point in time after dispells are nerfed is going to make BoS a take or go home talent.

The energy cost is too high for it to be anything other than situation in use, "escaping roots at any point" is just going to leave you doing no damage because you're burning all your energy. Even with the possibility of Haste actually being useful in MoP, 60 energy is a lot, definitely too high for it to be used liberally.

In my opinion both Prep and ShS are better talents simply because of their versatility compared to BoS.