Shadowstep is dead.

[macdisciple]

bos is terrible, step is terrible, and now prep has no second bomb. in other words we are royally fucked

We will learn to adjust. I've heard that rogues were #$%^&ed at the start of every expansion...nope.

[ymirsson]

It doesn't need to break roots as you travel instantaneously, compared to BoS you'll have spend 60 energy to break a root, then travel to your target anyway. So that means that you actually have to have the energy to use it at all in the first place and even in the best case scenario where you can break a root immediately while your target is close, you've still spent a huge 60 energy which gimps your damage output anyway.

Worse case is that you spend another 60 for the Sprint effect, 120 to break a root then catch your target is complete garbage. I'd rather Prep for the double vanish or just wait then ShS to my target and actually deal some damage and control.

So, vanish for every root it is then? And you try to imply i am the simple minded here? And unless Shadowstep gets to break roots, BoS still will be a faster solution. Because after pressing the button, you will actually travel forward whereas ShS simply does not work while immovable. Of course you can wait in your cozy nova and watch the icelances fly, but i prefer to move. And 60 energy is 1 and a half backstab. Missing that, and taking into account the energy you regenerate anyway while moving, you're talking about one backstab less. In the best case you don't stand around 4+ seconds but move with the target in melee range, autoattacking.

[Ambushu]

So here is something a little off topic (since im the OP im allowed to do it ), take into account for the moment weapon enchants.

Enchant Weapon - Dancing Steel - Permanently enchants a melee weapon to sometimes increase your Strength or Agility by 1,650 when dealing melee damage. Your highest stat is always chosen.

Enchant Weapon - Elemental Force - Permanently enchants a melee weapon to sometimes inflict 3,000 additional damage when dealing damage with spells and melee attacks

It seems to me that Elemental Force enchant might be more beneficial in a pvp situation compared to that of the agility.

Thoughts?

[ymirsson]

As always, it's a question of prco chance and cooldown. Near permanent agi would of course be better then 3k damage all 3 minutes.

[the_axi]

So, vanish for every root it is then?

You don't need to break every single root, important ones you can vanish for or get a dispel. Backstab cost 35 energy, so it is almost two Backstabs or a Mutilate in the best case scenario. That's 2-4 combos points of energy but you know your right a few seconds worth of auto attacks totally makes up for that loss!

Wait what?

Hahaha misunderstood you, that seriously made me laugh.

[ymirsson]

So, when you dispeller is busy or dead and your vanish is on cooldown, you wait it out? Do you use a damage trinket instead of an insignia too?

[Sorzzara]

You don't need to break every single root, important ones you can vanish for or get a dispel. Backstab cost 35 energy, so it is almost two Backstabs or a Mutilate in the best case scenario. That's 2-4 combos points of energy but you know your right a few seconds worth of auto attacks totally makes up for that loss!

And tell me, how exactly do you intend to get CPs out of that energy while you are rooted? Cuz, you know, our limit still is 100(120 with PvP Set), any Energy going above that is as useful as the suggestion to waste Vanish on Roots. Do you intend to Shuriken Toss your enemies to death?...because, last time I checked, any class that has an interest in keeping you rooted, still does more dmg on range.

ShS still has its uses, against certain classes, in PvE and whatnot, yes. And for certain Playstyles/Teamcombos as well. But against adversaries which rely heavily on roots and snares, I go BoS.

[the_axi]

So, when you dispeller is busy or dead and your vanish is on cooldown, you wait it out?

Now you're just being silly acting like every root means death. They same can be put against BoS too, what will you do when your in the same position with less than 60 energy or barely enough to use it? Oh yeah you already said "break the root and auto attack", I'm sure that will gain you many kills. With ShS you could at least get to your target as soon as the root ends.

But again we come back to the same point, your belief that BoS makes you essentially immune to roots for little cost.

And tell me, how exactly do you intend to get CPs out of that energy while you are rooted?

I intend to ShS then use my energy obviously, waiting has no real impact in BoS favour because you have to spend that energy to even use it. Even against Mages and Hunters BoS won't be that good, breaking out of their CC means very little if you can't keep them under control afterwards. In those cases where you face a large amount of CC Prep will pretty much win over both abilities anyway.

[Vital]

People who don't realise how much shadowstep is used have never seen a high level Rogue play. Seriously go and watch any decent rogue in arena streaming and you will see why your statements are such nonsense.

[Mathris]

I've been saying this since Wrath and I'll say it again. Prep needs to be killed off. All of them. Prep, Readiness, Cold Snap and that new paladin one. All of them need to die. They are going to be no-brainer choices for PvP which completely defeats the purpose of the new talent system supposedly adding choice. There is no choice. Especially since prep now resets CloS which it's never done before. Even without double bombs double CloS, double Evasion, double vanish, double sprint is so far and away the best option on that tier that ShStep and BoS can't compete.

[ymirsson]

I intend to ShS then use my energy obviously, .

And obviously, you still need to wait until your root wears off. Where exactly is your point? What makes ShS unconditionally better?

[Olianda]

You can actually shstep yourself as of now on the beta, hoping they leave that in as a neat kind of sprint.

That seems like dividing by zero. You step into the shadows... and you can't go to yourself, because you can't see yourself...

So basically, rogues, no longer bound by mathematics.

[Santti]

There is no point in declaring Shadowstep dead yet. MoP is still in early beta, and I can guarantee that the talent trees we have are not what you will see at release.

They could also halve the cooldown of shadowstep for all know.

Just wait and be patient.

[Illisar]

I typically don't agree with Ymirssion due to him being a very opinionated person (No offense mate, we clash heads it happens, I'm an arrogant prick and I know it as well so meh) But I'm going to have to agree with him on ShS not being unconditionally better than BoS, I currently have two combat builds going for when mop goes live, one utilizing BoS (My pvp spec) and one for ShS(Pve) I've always wanted to go Shadowstep killing spree on someone, but the root breaks will be massive useful to me. I see the uses and disadvantages of both.

[Holo]

Now you're just being silly acting like every root means death. They same can be put against BoS too, what will you do when your in the same position with less than 60 energy or barely enough to use it? Oh yeah you already said "break the root and auto attack", I'm sure that will gain you many kills. With ShS you could at least get to your target as soon as the root ends.

But again we come back to the same point, your belief that BoS makes you essentially immune to roots for little cost.

Cloak/Vanish/Get dispelled if it is REALLY urgent.

Your step, it doesn't break roots. Before being able to use it you have to wait out the whole thing. I don't.

[Sorzzara]

I intend to ShS then use my energy obviously, waiting has no real impact in BoS favour because you have to spend that energy to even use it.

And how would you do that I wonder? You are ROOTED, you can't ShS. So while I run towards my target, keeping them from drinking, rezzing a dead ally, being able to blind them, forcing them to move, you just sit there and wait for a magic Shadowstep-Unicorn to buff your dmg by 500% to make up for the lost time...not to mention, that while I can hide behind a pillar, or run to my mate if things get cocky, you are out in the open, at your opponents mercy. All the while, your energy is capping out, while mine fills the bar (and is therefore rdy to use). My energy: Serves a purpose. Yours: Is simply lost.

Even against Mages and Hunters BoS won't be that good, breaking out of their CC means very little if you can't keep them under control afterwards. In those cases where you face a large amount of CC Prep will pretty much win over both abilities anyway.

Its even better against mages and hunters than it is against classes which only have few such abilities, for not only does it BREAK their CC, it also grants IMMUNITY for 4 seconds...another thing that shadowstep does not. No hiding behind a field of frost trap bliss, while ShS is on CD.

[ymirsson]

On top of that, even though 60 energy IS a lot, it regens faster then Prep cooldown.

[Bisque]

I've been saying this since Wrath and I'll say it again. Prep needs to be killed off. All of them. Prep, Readiness, Cold Snap and that new paladin one. All of them need to die. They are going to be no-brainer choices for PvP which completely defeats the purpose of the new talent system supposedly adding choice. There is no choice. Especially since prep now resets CloS which it's never done before. Even without double bombs double CloS, double Evasion, double vanish, double sprint is so far and away the best option on that tier that ShStep and BoS can't compete.

I am behind you on this one, ya I saw the post where blizz defended abilities like Prep, Readiness etc... Saying it adds more strategy, have to wait a certain time,opportunity to use it blah blah -

BS utter complete BS, if every class had access to a Reset ability I guarantee every single class would chose it at least for their pvp because it ismandatory, because being able to reset major cool downs is huge and I thought blizz wanted to get away from "mandatory talents".

[the_axi]

My energy: Serves a purpose. Yours: Is simply lost.

1. You need to learn to read all of what people write
2. Saying shit like "Shadowstep-Unicorn" makes you seem like an idiot
3. You're energy only serves a purpose if it leads to something useful, even in your simple scenario BoS just leads to running around with no energy. Which is only useful for running away in most cases, you're not going to scare any Hunter or Mages when you've got no energy to actually use any abilities. Even then most roots last around 6 seconds at most, by the time you get that 60 energy back you'd be able to ShS. That's in your best case scenario with a no DR root and assuming your close enough to your target to actually threaten them before BoS ends.

This is also ignoring the fact you'd have to use BoS for both roots and snares, while ShS only needs to worry about roots.

Your step, it doesn't break roots. Before being able to use it you have to wait out the whole thing. I don't.

While that's true, if breaking the root isn't urgent then what benefit does BoS really give you?

[Bozzy]

Burst of Speed is absolutely pointless.. you just can´t use it because of high energy costs.
No costs and no global CD would make sense :P