State of Destruction - Beta discussion (PvE focus)

[Obsidian9]

Is it me, or am I the only one still unhappy with the drastically long CB? Even with backdraft, what is it, 2.3 second cast? (can't remember) just seems so out of place, Loads of quick Incinerates, conflag (Boooomm, instant), then press CB...wait... ... no.. waii... wait forrrrr....... it... CB!

I thought we wanted to get away from the long soul fire casts in live, we've just been given another long cast spell.

SURE it hits for 100-200k's in certain circumstances, but do you really think this will stay until live? Yeah sure, make a class that can effectively one hit someone, the damage will be nerfed, and if that's nerfed, bring on the nerf of the cast time some morree please!

But yeah Beta is beta, hope it gets changed.

Going to have to disagree with you on this one. For one 2.3 second cast does not feel that long (to me at least). Second I feel it works better with a certain degree of cast time switching (just not as much as from 1.2 incin to 3+ cb).

My only problem with the current system is it using 3 charges of back draft makes the vast majority of Incinerates at max cast time (note if they fix it so you cant use 2 charges of backdraft and then use cb). Well that and the spec is empty

[LeyrHao]

For me, a big nukes under 3 sec are good, as well as everything else under 2.5.

Let's see what happens in the following beta builds ^^

[Count Zero]

I dunno, I like the idea that you'll use most of your early Backdraft procs for incinerate, then after you've built a couple embers, unleash a couple Backdraft'd Chaos Bolts.

[Kontempt]

For me, a big nukes under 3 sec are good, as well as everything else under 2.5.

Let's see what happens in the following beta builds ^^

True true, just feels a little weird with fast incinerates and then a slow CB. Like I said though, the CB will get nerfed, it won't hit 100-200k on live, so a 2.3 second cast for a 40-60k maybe?? might be a little annoying (like live now, but at least we have proc for instant SF)

[Xorn]

True true, just feels a little weird with fast incinerates and then a slow CB. Like I said though, the CB will get nerfed, it won't hit 100-200k on live, so a 2.3 second cast for a 40-60k maybe?? might be a little annoying (like live now, but at least we have proc for instant SF)

Why on earth should CB hit for so little? Right now Incinerate hits for about 70k crits.

Furthermore, PLENTY of other classes are hitting in the 100-200k range on some abilities. Mind Blast, Pyroblast, just to name a couple. Hell, AFFLICTION can hit for over 200k on a Drain Soul crit.

[Kontempt]

Why on earth should CB hit for so little? Right now Incinerate hits for about 70k crits. PLUS mastery is bugged at the moment, like hell.... so that is modifying damage.

Furthermore, PLENTY of other classes are hitting in the 100-200k range on some abilities. Mind Blast, Pyroblast, just to name a couple. Hell, AFFLICTION can hit for over 200k on a Drain Soul crit.

Sigh... do realise this is beta, and no1 will hit this high. Have you read numerous times that blizz want to normalise damage, so when we enter MoP we be doing same there as we are now??

My argument is that with a 2.31 second cast time, it will just be like SF today with 30-40k crits, your incinerate won't hit for 70k when live hits, trust me. Please read my arguments before going off on some mad rant and understand what context I am applying this to and what beta patch.

NO1 and I mean NO1 will hit for 200k crits when live hits, you do realise that is 1 hitting people at start if MoP??

So I will illiterate again, CB must have it's cast time reduced, because we're losing the chance for it to proc instantly from our imp. When live hits, it will most likely do same damage as live Soul Fire, meaning we still have this clunky mechanic.

Or am I completely deluded and I am looking into this too much...?

[Kaizers]

PvP damage on soulfire is around 20-30k, it takes a huge hit from pvp defense.

[squidbear]

Sigh... do realise this is beta, and no1 will hit this high. Have you read numerous times that blizz want to normalise damage, so when we enter MoP we be doing same there as we are now??

My argument is that with a 2.31 second cast time, it will just be like SF today with 30-40k crits, your incinerate won't hit for 70k when live hits, trust me. Please read my arguments before going off on some mad rant and understand what context I am applying this to and what beta patch.

NO1 and I mean NO1 will hit for 200k crits when live hits, you do realise that is 1 hitting people at start if MoP??

So I will illiterate again, CB must have it's cast time reduced, because we're losing the chance for it to proc instantly from our imp. When live hits, it will most likely do same damage as live Soul Fire, meaning we still have this clunky mechanic.

Or am I completely deluded and I am looking into this too much...?

I can definitely see Incinerate critting 70k when it goes live, I've done 60k+ crits on live in my diddy gear and that's with Corruption, Immolate, Burning Embers, Bane of Doom, Bane of Agony contributing to my overall DPS. take them out the equation and Incinerate simply must hit harder. if you do 40k dps on Live as Destro and all those damage sources, Incinerate will have to hit hard when MoP lands to equal that damage.

[Kontempt]

ok ok fair enough, but we're losing instant soul fires :P No soul burn and no instant from imp

[MrHappy]

anyone experience a bug where it shows you have full embers when you don't SB is not replaced by incinerate?

also im not very happy with decreased CB aka SF damage as of last build. It seems that Conflags and incinerates need a damage boost to balance the overall damage.

With the lower damage to CB sac pet becomes almost a "must" for bursts to see worth-while numbers which is what is the point of spells that use embers as a resource.

In 398 gear and reforged to crit (20% unbuffed and 14 mastery unbuffed) in past build i was hitting with CB for about 125-135k with DS
currently in same gear I am hitting for 94-98k and 102k with Sac pet.

Atm to utilize the full burst potential is to use sac pet with DS at 4 embers cast 3 spells, wait for the 15% boost to fall off and use flames to re summon pet for the last ember.

Mana regen seems to be in a much better place than it was before and i like the idea of haste to boost the mana regen.

immolation ticks should still have a chance to proc embers a 25% chance per tick seems reasonable.

[Xorn]

Sigh... do realise this is beta, and no1 will hit this high. Have you read numerous times that blizz want to normalise damage, so when we enter MoP we be doing same there as we are now??

My argument is that with a 2.31 second cast time, it will just be like SF today with 30-40k crits, your incinerate won't hit for 70k when live hits, trust me. Please read my arguments before going off on some mad rant and understand what context I am applying this to and what beta patch.

NO1 and I mean NO1 will hit for 200k crits when live hits, you do realise that is 1 hitting people at start if MoP??

So I will illiterate again, CB must have it's cast time reduced, because we're losing the chance for it to proc instantly from our imp. When live hits, it will most likely do same damage as live Soul Fire, meaning we still have this clunky mechanic.

Or am I completely deluded and I am looking into this too much...?

I read your arguments, I just happen to think you're wrong. And I hardly went off on a "mad rant."

That said, Blizzard said we'd do the same dps as on live, not that our abilities will hit for the same amounts.

Destro is getting fewer sources of damage than on live, therefore our abilities have to hit harder in order to keep the same dps we had before. There is no way CB will hit the same as a SF on live, because that damage is just too low, the same with incinerate. It's impossible for incinerate and CB/SF to do the same damage AND for us to keep the same DPS when we're losing 3 dots.

[squidbear]

we definitely will lose that Shadowburn/Soulfire Damage, Mastery will be scaled back massively. look at Fire and Brimstone, it's benefited by Mastery, so I'm chucking 200k Incinerate crits at 15-20 targets on the Hoptalus encounter with it currently. that is insane damage.

[Xorn]

we definitely will lose that Shadowburn/Soulfire Damage, Mastery will be scaled back massively. look at Fire and Brimstone, it's benefited by Mastery, so I'm chucking 200k Incinerate crits at 15-20 targets on the Hoptalus encounter with it currently. that is insane damage.

While I do think it's scaling a bit too well right now, I have to wonder if it's all the scaling, of if you just have a ridiculous amount of mastery for your level. What level is your character, and what kind of gear are you in? If you're in higher ilevel gear but still at 85 then of course you'll have some ridiculous mastery scaling, however once you hit 86 it will take more mastery rating to get one point of it, so the damage will scale back.

[squidbear]

While I do think it's scaling a bit too well right now, I have to wonder if it's all the scaling, of if you just have a ridiculous amount of mastery for your level. What level is your character, and what kind of gear are you in? If you're in higher ilevel gear but still at 85 then of course you'll have some ridiculous mastery scaling, however once you hit 86 it will take more mastery rating to get one point of it, so the damage will scale back.

86 with 397 gear and a 410 Blue Stave, reforged for Crit. the reason everything hits so hard at the mo is Mastery, I'm on something like 185% extra damage from FnB spells. I'm sure the idea is that your spells will AOE but for less damage than they do on single target.

[Kontempt]

I read your arguments, I just happen to think you're wrong. And I hardly went off on a "mad rant."

That said, Blizzard said we'd do the same dps as on live, not that our abilities will hit for the same amounts.

Destro is getting fewer sources of damage than on live, therefore our abilities have to hit harder in order to keep the same dps we had before. There is no way CB will hit the same as a SF on live, because that damage is just too low, the same with incinerate. It's impossible for incinerate and CB/SF to do the same damage AND for us to keep the same DPS when we're losing 3 dots.

Wow, sorry, I completely agree :P tbh, it's coursework deadline week at Uni and I been stressy! We're losing dots, so yeah... I agree, sorry to be rude! But still, no more instant CB's! Losing some fluidity :\

[Xorn]

86 with 397 gear and a 410 Blue Stave, reforged for Crit. the reason everything hits so hard at the mo is Mastery, I'm on something like 185% extra damage from FnB spells. I'm sure the idea is that your spells will AOE but for less damage than they do on single target.

Well, the problem is is that FnB costs an ember, so the AoE damage has to be more than a single target CB, because that's the opportunity cost of using an Ember for FnB instead of CB. However, testing it myself... holy crap mastery scales like a truck. I reforged for mastery and with the double Sacrifice buff up and was casting AoE incinerates for 90k and 185k on a crit. That's a bit much.

Wow, sorry, I completely agree :P tbh, it's coursework deadline week at Uni and I been stressy! We're losing dots, so yeah... I agree, sorry to be rude! But still, no more instant CB's! Losing some fluidity :\

It's all good. We could both be right though. I mean, the damage might not be as high as it is on Beta, but it definitely has to be higher than it is on live.

As for the instant procs... the loss of that does kinda suck, however it scales with backdraft, which brings it down to a little more than a 2 second cast, which helps out a little bit.

[Gorehowl]

•Chaotic Energy now regenerates mana 625% faster, down from 650%.

D:

[Count Zero]

Probably necessary from what I've been reading about mana regen for Destro lately

[LeyrHao]

•Chaotic Energy now regenerates mana 625% faster, down from 650%.

D:

Not surprised/ing, to be honest.

[Gorehowl]

yeah im on beta atm and mana regen is pretty stupid lol

spamming incinerates without backdraft up sitting above 50% mana the entire time