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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Two questions

    1. Is Ivy bridge the tick or the tock in the intel development cycle?
    2. Will the price of Sandy Bridge stuff come down?
    1 -- Tick. Ivy Bridge is a die shrink of Sandy Bridge with a better integrated GPU and battery performance. If you're on a desktop with dedicated GPU(s), performance improvements between these platforms will be minimal. May have better overclocking potential, but the actual technology for non-mobile platforms isn't dramatically better.
    2 -- Most likely yes.

    And to answer the original question, if you're wanting a laptop, definitely wait. If you're building a desktop, there's little need to wait other than for a better deal on a last-generation CPU.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Two questions

    1. Is Ivy bridge the tick or the tock in the intel development cycle?
    2. Will the price of Sandy Bridge stuff come down?
    Ivy Bridge is a "Tick" and Sandy Bridge processors are very unlikely to see significant discounts. Intel sets volume pricing and sticks to it. Availability will merely come to a very slow trickle instead. 6-Series motherboards will likely see some price drops though.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    Ivy Bridge is a "Tick" and Sandy Bridge processors are very unlikely to see significant discounts. Intel sets volume pricing and sticks to it. Availability will merely come to a very slow trickle instead. 6-Series motherboards will likely see some price drops though.
    Price drops on Sandy Bridge will definitely happen at most retailers. They'll want to clear out their inventories to make room for the Ivy Bridge offerings -- if they didn't drop pricing, why would anyone choose a Sandy Bridge chip over an Ivy Bridge within a reasonable price delta? I believe they've been delaying Ivy Bridge to clear more Sandy Bridge chips from the channel, but they won't be able to clear them all out before moving the new chips.

    That said, I wouldn't be betting on substantial price drops, but there will definitely be some across the board. There will be larger drops in pre-fab systems from OEMs, as they have more physical hardware to move. I'd expect the Sandy Bridge chips to go relatively quickly. Happens every time a new chip generation comes out.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsjt View Post
    Price drops on Sandy Bridge will definitely happen at most retailers. They'll want to clear out their inventories to make room for the Ivy Bridge offerings -- if they didn't drop pricing, why would anyone choose a Sandy Bridge chip over an Ivy Bridge within a reasonable price delta? I believe they've been delaying Ivy Bridge to clear more Sandy Bridge chips from the channel, but they won't be able to clear them all out before moving the new chips.

    That said, I wouldn't be betting on substantial price drops, but there will definitely be some across the board. There will be larger drops in pre-fab systems from OEMs, as they have more physical hardware to move. I'd expect the Sandy Bridge chips to go relatively quickly. Happens every time a new chip generation comes out.
    Why does DDR2 cost more than DDR3? Why do HDDs cost more now than a year ago? This has nothing to do with choice and everything to do with scarcity. Places like Newegg and Micro Center sell Sandy Bridge processors basically as fast as they get them...they don't have to worry about inventory and they won't be dropping the prices any more than they usually do *unless* Intel officially comes out and slashes their 1000qty pricing so they can pass it on to the distributors and resellers.

    Is $180 the fair market value of dual-core 3.2GHz i5-650? Newegg seems to think so. Why would anyone buy that when they can get an i5-2500K at Micro Center for $150 w/Facebook coupon?

    And no what you describe almost never happens when new chips comes out. Newegg was selling the i7-930 for less than the i7-920 for the longest time. The same thing happened with Phenom/Athlon II based part numbers, Core 2s, Pentium 4s, etc.
    Last edited by kidsafe; 2012-04-02 at 04:35 PM.
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  5. #25
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    i wouldnt expect a sandy bridge price drop at all... at least from a microcenter price of 179.99$, new egg may finally lower to there but thats not guaranteed
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  6. #26
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Micro Center only has that price because they have a special deal of some sort with Intel, they actually lose money on CPUs they sell.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    Micro Center only has that price because they have a special deal of some sort with Intel, they actually lose money on CPUs they sell.
    Also because they get you in the store, hoping you buy something else while you're there.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    Also because they get you in the store, hoping you buy something else while you're there.
    I have NO problem with that. ^_< They have a murderously amazing stock of stuff, tons of GPUs, motherboards, chassises(?), peripherals, and all. It's exceptional. :P
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    I have NO problem with that. ^_< They have a murderously amazing stock of stuff, tons of GPUs, motherboards, chassises(?), peripherals, and all. It's exceptional. :P
    I agree, I was just adding to why. I can also add that it's likely you buy more
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  10. #30
    If there's any leftover stock, most companies will probably just pull a combo deal or something. But more to the point they probably don't have a massive stock anyway. They probably have more IBs ready already for all I know than SBs.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by azuresky808 View Post
    A couple of things most people overlook. Multi-threading is only useful if you run more than 4 applications at once. Unless you have about 5GHz having a full 16gig ram is useless. Having 8gig of ram is near useless too unless you at least hit around 3GHz (assuming 64bit). SLI/Crossfire is not necessary for gaming, in fact it can be a waste of cash unless your processor is very fast to make use of both to their fullest extent.

    You don't need 5.5GHz unless you are running a server.
    You must be a genious. I feel dumb for not knowing all that. Thanks.

    Sarcasm aside;
    Multi-threading is only useful if you run more than 4 applications at once.
    An application can use more than 1 thread. WoW for example; uses 3. 2 main ones and a 3rd lesser one.

    Unless you have about 5GHz having a full 16gig ram is useless.
    For gaming. Even 8GB is too much for gaming. Not everybody only games on his rig though, so it's important to keep that in mind.

    Having 8gig of ram is near useless too unless you at least hit around 3GHz (assuming 64bit).
    I'm not following your logic really, last quote you were also relating clock speed vs ammount of ram. It just makes no sense.

    SLI/Crossfire is not necessary for gaming, in fact it can be a waste of cash unless your processor is very fast to make use of both to their fullest extent.
    Necessary? No. Waste of cash? Maybe.
    You've got to keep in mind not everybody is aiming for price/performance. Some of us acutally enjoy putting masterpieces of hardware together and having a monster rig that dominates anything. It's a hobby. Just like you would blow tons of money on a bike, if you were into biking that is.

    You don't need 5.5GHz unless you are running a server.
    Again comparing apples to pears. Servers are entirely unrelated to core clocks and performance.

    EDIT: Yes I went out of my way to prove you wrong on everyting you posted. It pleases me to see Synthaxx did the same.
    Last edited by Prixie; 2012-04-03 at 05:55 PM.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    People who upgraded to Sandy Bridge in Spring 2011 were best off, at least the people who got B3 boards right away instead of the true early adopters in January/February who had to deal with RMAs.
    On this point alone - i'd say not. I bought a Z68 board once they came out and got the original cost price of my P67 board refunded once I did the swap and sent it back. As it was same chipset and i'm running retail windows it even happily went through a bit of installing new hardware and went back to being a nice solid system.

    The nice point was the supplier ended up refunding me the whole order (around £250 worth) by mistake and still hasn't bothered me about it

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-03 at 01:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Prixie View Post
    Necessary? No. Waste of cash? Maybe.
    You've got to keep in mind not everybody is aiming for price/performance. Some of us acutally enjoy putting masterpieces of hardware together and having a monster rig that dominates anything. It's a hobby. Just like you would blow tons of money on a bike, if you were into biking that is.
    I move from being an employee to contracting in IT in a few months time, one of the handy things - being able to put a home computer through my company finances without paying tax on the parts at least once a year Very tempted to build a monster PC in a rather small box (something like the shuttle XPC barebones with a good GPU, Ram, processor and raided SSD's).
    Last edited by mercutiouk; 2012-04-03 at 12:47 AM.
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    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    Why does DDR2 cost more than DDR3? Why do HDDs cost more now than a year ago?
    DDR2 is very widely used still, there are probably hundreds of computers still using it. Hard drives are expensive because of the floods in thailand, SSDs are not cheap enough by a factor of at least 10 to replace them for general storage.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    I have NO problem with that. ^_< They have a murderously amazing stock of stuff, tons of GPUs, motherboards, chassises(?), peripherals, and all. It's exceptional. :P
    Fucking right. I love Micro Center.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prixie View Post
    Again comparing apples to pears. Servers are entirely unrelated to core clocks and performance.
    Haha, yeah I was about to say... servers don't give a damn about clock speed. Absolute values for MIPS and FLOPS with lots of cores and all forms of I/O are way more important at a datacenter...

    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
    DDR2 is very widely used still, there are probably hundreds of computers still using it. Hard drives are expensive because of the floods in thailand, SSDs are not cheap enough by a factor of at least 10 to replace them for general storage.
    What about DDR and plain old SDRAM and EDO SIMMs or 30-pin FPM SIMMs? HDDs are expensive because of the floods in Thailand, because demand outstrips supply. This is why old RAM is expensive, because nobody really makes it anymore. This is also why older processors are expensive...because somewhere out there is a business or individual who puts a lot of stock in continuity and Intel doesn't even manufacture the SKU he intends to buy anymore.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by azuresky808 View Post
    I'm surprised that so many people say to wait on this. I think it really depends on what you need to get done. I can run BF3 @ 60FPS and this is on a STOCK i5 2500k (about 3.3GHz), nvedia 550Ti, and 8 gig of ram. I built this computer to be a gaming rig but unlike most people that look for good numbers and such why would you need any more than that initial 60 FPS? Assuming you upgrade every two years you should be in a good enough spot to be hitting good benchmarks for standard usage.
    Ok, i'm gonna have to call your bluff here. I did add a note in red to the post as a warning, but it's worth expanding on it i think.

    You're stringing "technical" terms together in the hopes that you'll be able to fool someone into believing you're experienced with technology. "good enough spot to be hitting good benchmarks for standard usage" doesn't actually imply anything. Benchmarks have little to do with "standard usage", and are only an indicator of which company the developer of the benchmark tool prefers.

    Quote Originally Posted by azuresky808 View Post
    A couple of things most people overlook. Multi-threading is only useful if you run more than 4 applications at once.
    Once again, just stringing terms together to try and make people think you know what you're talking about. I develop software. In that software, i have threads. The program could be considered a tree, and the threads could be considered it's branches. All the branches are connected to the tree, but they all go in different directions, have different shapes, and some even have pretty pink flowers on them (because pink flowers are cool, right?). Trees also have roots. You could say there's 4 large roots in this particular tree. Each root would feed 25% of the branches on the tree. Each root is a CPU core. Each core runs several threads, but all threads sit in one program/process.

    Now, you've got an orchard of trees. Each tree is seperate, but they're existing happily alongside each other (well, apart from that apple tree, dirty filthy f*cking apple trees!), and collectively, they can be classified as one entity ("Orchard"). Likewise, all your programs are existing in RAM alongside each other. The trees are all feeding from the same soil (your disks) but the nutrition varies in different parts of the soil (i.e. some parts of your disk perform better, at least this is true with HDD's, not so much with SSD's).

    Multithreading has nothing to do with how many applications you want to run at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by azuresky808 View Post
    Unless you have about 5GHz having a full 16gig ram is useless. Having 8gig of ram is near useless too unless you at least hit around 3GHz (assuming 64bit).
    RAM capacity and CPU speed have no correlation. On modern systems, data is loaded directly into RAM from the disk without the need to go through the CPU. The CPU only executes data that it can actually read (i.e. the actual executable part of a program). The data that the program itself reads, such as the files used to store models for a game or the configuration data for your web browser, is either read from disk, or loaded into RAM. Now, what the program does with that data depends entirely on how it's designed. At some point, information about it will go through the CPU but it's not being executed simply because it's not executable code.

    Quote Originally Posted by azuresky808 View Post
    SLI/Crossfire is not necessary for gaming, in fact it can be a waste of cash unless your processor is very fast to make use of both to their fullest extent.
    No, it's not necessary. However, you're completely wrong on the point that it's a waste of cash unless your CPU is fast. Particle effects are often the heaviest on resources as each particle needs to be processed individually. This is done by streaming it through one of the hundreds of cores in the GPU. If you add more GPU's, you get more cores working together, and so more particles can be processed together.

    Quote Originally Posted by azuresky808 View Post
    You don't need 5.5GHz unless you are running a server.
    Clock speed is mostly irrelevant in servers. Disk access is one of the heaviest operations (because in the end, a database ends up as data stored on a disk at some point). Having more cores is usually better when you're dealing with gaming or database servers, and less so when dealing with plain old web servers.
    [...]

  17. #37
    TL;DR on all the ridiculous arguing in the thread.

    To the OP: Since you're planning to get an i5-2500k, I'm going to assume the computer is solely being used for gaming. Since that is most likely the case (otherwise you'd have chosen an i7), just get the 2500k and Sandy Bridge motherboard. The speculated 5-15% increase in performance between the 2500k and 3570k won't really matter at all in a gaming computer until games start pushing the limits of CPU processing power. And when that time comes, you'll most likely need to build a new system with an entirely new generation of hardware anyway. Save the $100 and go with Sandy Bridge.

  18. #38
    However, buying the i5 2500k when the IB equivalent is coming out in literally three-four weeks' time at the same pricetag is silly.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mawaru View Post
    Save the $100 and go with Sandy Bridge.
    What $100 is he saving? The 3570K (which is IB's 2500K equivalent) only costs $225, which is a measly $6 more than NewEgg is asking for the 2500K right now.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by noteworthynerd View Post
    What $100 is he saving? The 3570K (which is IB's 2500K equivalent) only costs $225, which is a measly $6 more than NewEgg is asking for the 2500K right now.
    Read the original post, he seems to think he'll save $100 by buying Sandy Bridge right now. Maybe he knows about a deal or something that could save him money? Who knows.

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