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  1. #241
    Hrm, Simcraft has beta Spriest data up now, and they're showing a fairly similar dps change between live and Beta as the locks are ... I haven't been keeping up with Spriest changes at all, but I wonder what this means for how far along they are in the development cycle.

    I'm pretty concerned if the dps is near the other lock specs and about in-line with how much dps other classes gain/lose, they'll call it a day, no matter the state of the rotation/priorities.
    --
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Toy Train Set has been temporarily disabled.

  2. #242
    Paraclef at this point I think is worth an ignore, I don't think he knows shit of what he's talking about.

    BTW, Shadowflame does not always last 6 seconds. Take a hint from there and see if you can understand your own posts.

  3. #243
    Paraclef, why are you linking my 4.3.3 spreadsheet when it doesn't apply to the beta? Shadowflame ticks every second.

    This chart is more accurate.
    Warlock DOT Haste Spreadsheet 5.4 - Level 90

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Paraclef View Post
    Blablabla... Give numbers or go back to the kitchen....
    Please refrain from subjecting us to your lack of knowledge of the game and stupid points through this and any other warlock discussions. Not only do you have the most childish reactions when you are completely wrong about what you are talking about you jump on those who point out your lack of ability to participate in this discussion. As my favorite professor always used to say.

    "No, you're wrong. Nope just wrong. Shut up and stop arguing about it. Go home, think about it, you're wrong."
    Gamer, Nerd, Physicist. What more could you want?! Well fine, I have a youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/shaidyadvice and a stream: www.twitch.tv/shaidyadvice I'm currently spending my free time with the fine fellows and ladies over at Death and Taxes.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by CDShaidar View Post
    As my favorite professor always used to say.

    "No, you're wrong. Nope just wrong. Shut up and stop arguing about it. Go home, think about it, you're wrong."
    OffTopic
    Professor in which field was he?

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss T View Post
    OffTopic
    Professor in which field was he?
    Physics, I know it makes him sound like a dick but one of the grad students was the type of guy who asks lots of questions that are worded to show how much he knows. "Isn't it true that... *insert some comment that is way off topic and is an attempt to show how smart he is*". We loved him for these kinds of responses to this guy, he was quite respectful of the rest of us when we had questions that were about things we didn't understand.
    Gamer, Nerd, Physicist. What more could you want?! Well fine, I have a youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/shaidyadvice and a stream: www.twitch.tv/shaidyadvice I'm currently spending my free time with the fine fellows and ladies over at Death and Taxes.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by CDShaidar View Post
    Physics, I know it makes him sound like a dick but one of the grad students was the type of guy who asks lots of questions that are worded to show how much he knows. "Isn't it true that... *insert some comment that is way off topic and is an attempt to show how smart he is*". We loved him for these kinds of responses to this guy, he was quite respectful of the rest of us when we had questions that were about things we didn't understand.
    Well, Physics may be exact enough ( and proved by experiment ) to say: NO, you are completely wrong.



    Back to topic.

    How does current Demo DPS rotation feel? For me it looks like a mess, but I have no option to try it in beta.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss T View Post
    How does current Demo DPS rotation feel? For me it looks like a mess, but I have no option to try it in beta.
    Feels pretty much how it looks.

    Caster form is underwhelming:
    - Molten Core procs feel no different from continuing to cast Shadow Bolts (and Soul Fire barely hits any harder than a SB crit so it's not even like you notice the big numbers) because of the roughly equal cast times.
    - Everything is a grossly over-expensive cast, meaning you're using Life Tap every 10s.
    - Hopping into Meta to maintain Doom and dropping from it to maintain Corruption are about the only things to really focus on, yet I don't think that's intended.
    Meta well...
    - Spamming a single instant nuke is probably about as boring a mechanic as you could come up with.
    - Any attempt to diverge from spamming that nuke will end Meta so prematurely that you wonder what the point was in using it.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Paraclef View Post
    " While using Metamorphosis, your Corruption spell transforms into Doom "

    Still in progress, I guess
    This doesn't mean it changes on the target, it just changes the spell on your action bar. You can, and should have both spells applied to your target but you need to switch stances to maintain their application.

  10. #250
    I get the impression their intent is to have the spells be completely mutually exclusive on one target.

    Or, if it's not their intent, I think it should be. Or to implement something that precludes the desirability of stance dancing.
    --
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Toy Train Set has been temporarily disabled.

  11. #251
    As long as Meta has a dot, you'll want to pop Meta just to maintain it, and as long as Slash has a lower DPET than Corruption you'll drop Meta to apply it. Making the spells exclusive wont fix the fact you'll want to pop Meta just to maintain a DoT as long as it's the highest DPET version of the spell available.

    Potential ways to fix this are:
    1. Meta's attacks consume Corruption, and caster attacks consume Doom
    Prevents anyone from ever dropping or popping Meta to cast either DoT. But, would there be a benefit to this, potentially meaning changing stance to cast it to consume it? Or would it mean waiting for the DoT to fall off before changing stance so as not to loose damage from the spell? Both lead to a bit of clunkiness, perhaps attacks against a dotted target could provide a buff to subsequent slashes to make up for the damage that would be lost. However, once you change stance it would mean a complete restart of the rotation, which never feels good.

    2. Meta's attacks maintain Corruption
    Touch of Chaos does that now, but only in melee range. No real reason Slash or Wave couldn't apply the same effect, but are auto-refreshes compelling gameplay? I'm of the opinion not. And if Slash refreshes Corruption, should Shadow Bolt refresh Doom?

    3. Meta's bonus applies to direct damage attacks
    So long as all DoTs are still castable in Meta, that's fine. It does risk DoTs seeming quite weak relative to Meta, and sends out a wrong message in terms of maintaining DoTs while in Meta. Meta's attacks could however provide a shot lived (5s?) debuff that offers the equivalent damage increase to DoT attacks, rather like Shadow Embrace.

    4. Increase the cooldown on changing stance and/or have it apply when dropping form as well as when entering
    Makes using a stance more of a commitment, but risks harming the dynamism which is the whole point of the new Fury system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    I get the impression their intent is to have the spells be completely mutually exclusive on one target.

    Or, if it's not their intent, I think it should be. Or to implement something that precludes the desirability of stance dancing.
    Whatever the intent is, that's not how it works on Beta right now: You can most assuredly have both Doom and Corruption rolling on a target.

  12. #252
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    from overall feel of the spec it seems alot better than live (mainly to not having to pet dance). There are a bit less things to keep track of. Meta damage seems to be no longer OP and overall dps looks to be on par with rest of specs. That being said...
    the dps rotation is meh-ish. Stuff dies too quicky in 5mans to get a feel for the spec and target dummies provide no feedback for raid dps.

    Demo tanky is a god send for questing ethusiasts and it actually makes locks very very 1337 soakers for bosses with mechanics like Morchok and Ultraxion. Ward + Will in Dark Apath is already 60-75% damage reduction and if you have ANOTHER big hit coming in Dark Bargain is there to make you live and just being healed through the DoT after (which is not difficult and would be even more imba if you could BoP the Dark Bargain to remove it). Defensively it is pure awesome.

    For dps i personally enjoy the new affliction and will be rolling that come 5.0 with demo OS for tanky scenarios if needed. I may or may not pick up destro/demo as main dps spec if numbers are significant to one spec over the other (i mean like 2k+dps difference) but if the damage is close to it (under 2k dps) than i'll roll afflic
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  13. #253
    My problem with Demonology on Beta is you are never in Metamorphosis very long. I'm not worried about the stance dance b/c other than the first Doom you put on the target however few seconds into the fight it takes to generate enough fury, you don't ever have to switch into Meta early for DoTing. Now, if HoG's meta cousin (chaos wave?) becomes a necessary must, that could cause some serious stand dancing and I would greatly oppose such a design. However, my main point is you are not in meta long at all - you refresh doom and throw a few Soul Fires and you're back at 500 fury in a matter of 8-10 seconds, maybe less.
    Those who you know as Warlocks are your Salvation through Destruction. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

  14. #254

  15. #255
    It had that range for several patches, it was just bugged and didn't work outside melee range.
    It also used that animation since the first beta version back in april.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It had that range for several patches, it was just bugged and didn't work outside melee range.
    It also used that animation since the first beta version back in april.
    The range was in the tooltip since first Beta (albeit at 20 yards) yeah, but it's only just now working. Never saw the animation before since was always in melee

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    The range was in the tooltip since first Beta (albeit at 20 yards) yeah, but it's only just now working. Never saw the animation before since was always in melee
    Maybe it is supposed to be part of rotation.

    What damage it does?
    How it works? - I 'm not aware of melee mechanics mixed with casts.

  18. #258
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    The rotation I have been using and have simmed as highest in simcraft is on pull put up corruption, go into meta put up doom, stay in meta for 3gcds or so until touch of chaos has refreshed corruption, drop meta.

    After that you want to save all MC procs for meta, and go into meta whenever corruption is under 8s left and refresh it again. Cancel meta once corruption is refreshed and slowly build fury over 2 minutes to use with Dark souls.

    It is actually pretty fun going into meta often and still retaining that big 2 minute cooldown meta. The rotation is very much about fury management and cooldown management, and less focus on what you are spamming.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss T View Post
    Maybe it is supposed to be part of rotation.

    What damage it does?
    How it works? - I 'm not aware of melee mechanics mixed with casts.
    It basically functions as an Autoattack which swings during your instant cast Demonic Slash spam. It's main role is to refresh Corruption.
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    The rotation I have been using and have simmed as highest in simcraft is on pull put up corruption, go into meta put up doom, stay in meta for 3gcds or so until touch of chaos has refreshed corruption, drop meta.

    After that you want to save all MC procs for meta, and go into meta whenever corruption is under 8s left and refresh it again. Cancel meta once corruption is refreshed and slowly build fury over 2 minutes to use with Dark souls.

    It is actually pretty fun going into meta often and still retaining that big 2 minute cooldown meta. The rotation is very much about fury management and cooldown management, and less focus on what you are spamming.
    I find popping in and out of Meta for 3-4s a time tedious. It's not about cooldown management, it's about pressing an extra button a couple of times just to refresh a DoT. It's stupid. Even more stupid is the necessity to sit on MC procs to make sure you can proc Decimation at the right time, and then have it promptly send you OOM or OOF as appropriate within mere seconds.

  20. #260
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It basically functions as an Autoattack which swings during your instant cast Demonic Slash spam. It's main role is to refresh Corruption.

    I find popping in and out of Meta for 3-4s a time tedious. It's not about cooldown management, it's about pressing an extra button a couple of times just to refresh a DoT. It's stupid. Even more stupid is the necessity to sit on MC procs to make sure you can proc Decimation at the right time, and then have it promptly send you OOM or OOF as appropriate within mere seconds.
    It doesn't make you oom or oof with seconds at all, if you want you can stay in meta for longer then 3-4s at a time, however then you aren't building extra fury for a larger meta on the 2 minute mark.

    I actually found the mana situation as demo fine and don't really understand why everyone is bitching about it so much, I life tap maybe once every 20-30s, generally once per meta \ caster rotation. Spamming filler soul fire is about 3 casters per life tap, shadow bolt is 4 casts per life tap. However if you are going into meta often enough that generally raises it to about 7-8 casts per life tap, so once every 14s+ or so, which isn't terrible.

    And I guess you can find the rotation tedious if you want but I think it does exactly what is normal for the warlock class, which is give some complexity to the rotation. If you don't want to play it that way, don't, its only slightly higher (3-4% dps) over just using meta whenever you feel like.

    The fury \ cooldown management comes from the fact that you are never sitting on excess fury, because you have plans for when you should be using it. That turns things like deciding when to pop Immolation aura \ and when you want to skip a meta rotation for the extra fury a decision you have to make, which leads to more interesting gameplay then just spamming your nuke.

    But really...so what if its another button you press...its isn't like you are pressing anything else.

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