[MoP] Misc Demonology Notes

[Count Zero]

They took crit-immunity out of meta/DA? interesting, but I think we know why they did it? oh the griefing I've suffered at the hands of Demo-'Locks.....!

They took it away from all "offtanks" who had it before (rather than giving it to offtanks who didn't already have it -- I suppose this solution is better for balance in the long run ?)

[darthades]

I agree that wild imps should be baseline, it used to be. Unfortunate that someone at Blizzard had a brain fart and it became a glyph.

Wild Imps cost 150 demonic fury =( thats a drawback considering it also cripples the normal wildimp generation

[Grubjuice]

Wild Imps cost 150 demonic fury =( thats a drawback considering it also cripples the normal wildimp generation

I believe the trade off is more like you get 3 imps per minute passively for free which together yield 150 fury per minute
or you get 5 imps all at once which costs 150 fury but yield 250 fury (net gain of 100) which means Imp Swarm gets you two more imps per minute at the cost of 50 fury per minute.

either way, when you have the glyph, you can choose to use imp swarm on cooldown, or you can choose not to use IS, and the passive effect wild imps remains.

Since the glyph itself does not disable the passive effect, having the glyph has no inherent drawback (other than using up a glyph spot) and allows you to choose between a burst ability and a passive effect. The glyph is too good.

[Grubjuice]

Well i finally got to try the new system over the weekend on the Public Test Realm,
I leveled a Demonology Warlock from 1-41 over Saturday and Sunday
(no small feat, given that you get disconnected every two minutes and have to spam-log back in, but i perservered)

Basically I was not able to PvP, run dungeons, farm, or raid, and I am not at level cap, so i can only speak to the first forty levels of Demonology (what's that about 10% of the game?).

I LOVE IT!!

Demonic Leap? OMG! Demonic leap on cooldown is sustainable out of combat because you regerante 10 fury/second out of combat.

[Fury]
I noticed that demonic fury has a short grace period before it begins to decay out of combat: i have not measured it rigorously but it looks like Fury does not decay until 20 seconds after combat ends, also fury regenerates out of combat if you are below 200/1000 over at rate of ~10/second over 20 seconds, which is nice. The PTR is still buggy and sometimes my fury drains immediately out of combat and very very fast, but if i log out and log in, this issue usually goes away.

One thing I had no idea about before was that you get 100 Demonic Fury for landing a kill on a target that yields experience! How is it that i never heard this? It makes chain pulling reasonably sustainable. Before you get ToC, you can just spam Shadow Bolt in Metamorphosis indefinitely and will always be fury capped.

Once you get Touch of Chaos, I found that the following simple rotation was both very practical and usually Fury positive:
Shadow Bolt (/petattack) > Hand of Gul'dan > Corruption > (Meta) > ToC/ToC/Toc (until mob dies [usually 1~3 ToCs'], then drop meta, and repeat).

for multiple mobs:
Corruption/Corruption/Corruption/Corruption > HoG > Harvest Life >HoG > (meta) > ToC/ToC/ToC (until they are all dead, as they die they yield fury which allows you sustain meta while you finish them off).

[Talents]
I found that Soul Leech and Harvest Life were not as good as I had hoped, but since I cannot run dungeons I have little opportunity to AoE right now. Instead i have usually been using Dark Regeneration (which in conjunction with glyph of Health Stone and Fel Armor can heal you for something like 95% percent of your health!) or Harvest Life when I AoE Farming.

I have taken Mortal Coil for PvE, not for the fear but for the self heal, though it also works as an interrupt, not that that matters while leveling.

I plan to take Soul Link when i Hit level 45. I suspect that while leveling the purpose of Soul Link is not to keep you alive, rather it's to keep your Void Walker alive. He pulls and holds aggro really well now and with Soul Link I won't have to worry about him dieing, and I'll still be able to attack.

[Hellfire]
Speaking of AoE the self-damage and mana cost of Hellfire seem too high at this level. No, 'too high' does not cutit, it's insane! It's prohibitively dangerous to use. Except of course that it does in fact do more damage than Harvest life. Oh it's a dilemma.

[Wild Imps]
I love my Wild Imps. When you chain pull, you end up with like 6~7 Imps follwing you around, I feel like the Wicked Witch of the West (FLY! My Flying Monkeys! FLY! Aaah hahahahahahah!) I just wish they were a little faster to respond to combat. I macro my main pet to /petattack on my Shadow Bolt so that he dives in as soon as i start casting but the WImps don't start attacking until either my pet of I or have taken a hit, which is usually only the last .5 seconds of combat, so they don't always get a chance to attack my target

[glyphs]
It seems that Glyph of Soul Consumption does not do anything, it supposed to heal you, i think, when ever you kill a target while in meta (which should be every target you kill) but I see no effect. If it ever starts working it will be great for leveling.

Glyph of Demon Training seems to make Imps too powerful: It also looks bugged, as my Imp's energy does not drain with Glyph of Demon Training, and can attack like Machine Gun.

Glyph of Nightmares? So Awesome. (I am 1000 Needles right now, so yeah)

[xskarma]

Well i finally got to try the new system over the weekend on the Public Test Realm,
I leveled a Demonology Warlock from 1-41 over Saturday and Sunday
(no small feat, given that you get disconnected every two minutes and have to spam-log back in, but i perservered)

Basically I was not able to PvP, run dungeons, farm, or raid, and I am not at level cap, so i can only speak to the first forty levels of Demonology (what's that about 10% of the game?).

I LOVE IT!!

Demonic Leap? OMG! Demonic leap on cooldown is sustainable out of combat because you regerante 10 fury/second out of combat.

[Fury]
I noticed that demonic fury has a short grace period before it begins to decay out of combat: i have not measured it rigorously but it looks like Fury does not decay until 20 seconds after combat ends, also fury regenerates out of combat if you are below 200/1000 over at rate of ~10/second over 20 seconds, which is nice. The PTR is still buggy and sometimes my fury drains immediately out of combat and very very fast, but if i log out and log in, this issue usually goes away.

One thing I had no idea about before was that you get 100 Demonic Fury for landing a kill on a target that yields experience! How is it that i never heard this? It makes chain pulling reasonably sustainable. Before you get ToC, you can just spam Shadow Bolt in Metamorphosis indefinitely and will always be fury capped.

Once you get Touch of Chaos, I found that the following simple rotation was both very practical and usually Fury positive:
Shadow Bolt (/petattack) > Hand of Gul'dan > Corruption > (Meta) > ToC/ToC/Toc (until mob dies [usually 1~3 ToCs'], then drop meta, and repeat).

for multiple mobs:
Corruption/Corruption/Corruption/Corruption > HoG > Harvest Life >HoG > (meta) > ToC/ToC/ToC (until they are all dead, as they die they yield fury which allows you sustain meta while you finish them off).

[Talents]
I found that Soul Leech and Harvest Life were not as good as I had hoped, but since I cannot run dungeons I have little opportunity to AoE right now. Instead i have usually been using Dark Regeneration (which in conjunction with glyph of Health Stone and Fel Armor can heal you for something like 95% percent of your health!) or Harvest Life when I AoE Farming.

I have taken Mortal Coil for PvE, not for the fear but for the self heal, though it also works as an interrupt, not that that matters while leveling.

I plan to take Soul Link when i Hit level 45. I suspect that while leveling the purpose of Soul Link is not to keep you alive, rather it's to keep your Void Walker alive. He pulls and holds aggro really well now and with Soul Link I won't have to worry about him dieing, and I'll still be able to attack.

[Hellfire]
Speaking of AoE the self-damage and mana cost of Hellfire seem too high at this level. No, 'too high' does not cutit, it's insane! It's prohibitively dangerous to use. Except of course that it does in fact do more damage than Harvest life. Oh it's a dilemma.

[Wild Imps]
I love my Wild Imps. When you chain pull, you end up with like 6~7 Imps follwing you around, I feel like the Wicked Witch of the West (FLY! My Flying Monkeys! FLY! Aaah hahahahahahah!) I just wish they were a little faster to respond to combat. I macro my main pet to /petattack on my Shadow Bolt so that he dives in as soon as i start casting but the WImps don't start attacking until either my pet of I or have taken a hit, which is usually only the last .5 seconds of combat, so they don't always get a chance to attack my target

[glyphs]
It seems that Glyph of Soul Consumption does not do anything, it supposed to heal you, i think, when ever you kill a target while in meta (which should be every target you kill) but I see no effect. If it ever starts working it will be great for leveling.

Glyph of Demon Training seems to make Imps too powerful: It also looks bugged, as my Imp's energy does not drain with Glyph of Demon Training, and can attack like Machine Gun.

Glyph of Nightmares? So Awesome. (I am 1000 Needles right now, so yeah)

LMAO, well, someone is having fun

Nice to read about Demo being usefull, I hadn't really looked into leveling as Demo yet, but this makes me want to try it. Might be a decent choice from 85 to 90, you never know.

Just out of curiosity though, why not just copy your own char or make a premade? (assuming you can make premades on PTR) You would have been able to play with all the changes right away.

[Grubjuice]

Just out of curiosity though, why not just copy your own char or make a premade? (assuming you can make premades on PTR) You would have been able to play with all the changes right away.

For several reasons;
primarily i just like leveling in general, on live i have tons and tons of alts.

second, because the PTR is so unstable right now, no one is running dungeons or raids so there is nothing to do at level 85 but attack dummies and that is really boring.

third, somone has to test the world outside of the cities for glitches, Blizzard needs feedback from all aspects of the game.

I am really hoping that the PTR will become stable enough to do group related content. I have a level 85 lock that i would transfer over to test raids and heroics, but really that is not worth doing right now.

[Count Zero]

I actually have managed to get in some dungeons. It's real rough once you're in what with the random dcs/crashes, but most people are geared enough that even a minute without a proper tank or healer isn't necessarily an auto-wipe.

Hoping I can get a guild group together once things get stable enough so I can try out tanking a dungeon in Dark Apotheosis

[Rhamses]

I had a similar experience to Grub. I had pretty much sidelined my Warlock in Cataclysm because she was so boring to play as. I really didn't see much of a difference between the three different specs. The MoP changes have been like a breath of fresh air. I may actually take my Warlock to max level now since she's such a blast to play with.

In the case of demonology, I really like how you actually get the feeling that you're a master of demons. Wild Imps sprout like crazy, you turn into a demon and smash things. It's just a really fun spec to use. I give Blizzard a lot of credit for revitalizing the class. I really think you're going to see a rapid increase in Lock players come MoP.

Oh, and does anyone know what it means when your warlock sprouts horns and glows with energy? PTR was unstable so the proc icons weren't working.

[Count Zero]

I thought those were a Dark Apotheosis exclusive for when you'd banked a certain amount of Demonic Fury. Does it work for regular Meta also ?

[Canoftuna]

I thought those were a Dark Apotheosis exclusive for when you'd banked a certain amount of Demonic Fury. Does it work for regular Meta also ?

You sprout the purple horns and your feet/hands glow purple when you hit 500 Demonic Fury normally, and they continue to appear until you dip below 500.

[Grubjuice]

certain head coverings hide the horns and certain ones show them.
This will need to be taken into consideration when developing a transmog set.

[Deleted]

I tested Dark Apotheosis for PvP in duels at the PTR. Here are some insights:

* Burst is so heavy, that you can't tank that much in PvP (90k owl-druid crits for example)
* On the other hand, periodic damage is heavy, too (affliction warlocks can make a lot of pressure)
* Many classes have to much self healing against the low dps of DA (3% life per second from a warrior with the corresponding talent skilled)
* DA warlocks should be potent flag carrier, because they have excellent escape mechanisms (especially teleport) and a lot off cc (unlike other tanks), too
* Harvest Life is the most defensive filler spell and generates good healing
* Imps and Pets are very important, because of their dps. I prefer the Wrathguard with 25% healing debuff and the 4 sec stun...
* I prefer Sacrifical Pact (together with Pet Healing Glyph, which should be spammed in this case) over Soul Link (which needs a lot of attention and gets weaker with adapting/smart opponents) and Dark Bargain (which is a solid choice, too)
* I think (for Horde) Orcs have the best racials for DA Warlocks, the new undead racial (with life leech) doesn't proc often enough (1-2 per minute)
* Blood Fear doesn't work for DA, after all i think Burning Rush is the best talent for BGs - you can use it out of combat (and you have 2% life per second liferegeneration via Soul Harvest) for a lot of strategic flexibility - and it's the best talent for flag carrier
* Howl of Terror is excellent CC, because you get a lot of cooldown reduction via the on hit trigger (as long as people hit you)
* I thought i would switch between Meta and DA (and casterform), but after all, i just stayed in DA all the time. This needs a lot of thoughts in the future, because the added flexibility with just one Glyph is incredible. I just don't know how you can break this option

[darthades]

DA vs casters makes very little difference.

But vs melee, omg the damage reduction is insane when coupled with enfeblement aura, they really want to cry, they wont kill you but you wont kill them either.

[Grubjuice]

DA vs casters makes very little difference.

But vs melee, omg the damage reduction is insane when coupled with enfeblement aura, they really want to cry, they wont kill you but you wont kill them either.

Well you are basically playing a tank spec, so that's rather normal isn't it?
I assume one uses DA to a) survive long enough to get a teammate to peal off you (esp as flag carrier) b) peal melee from your teammates or c) defend nodes
or whatever.

---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 10:10 AM ----------

You know that area in Deepholm, between Stone Heart and Needlerock Slag, where the Trogs and the Earthen are doing battle in large clusters?

Best AoE farming ever!
there are enough weak-ass (but still experience yielding) mobs that you can sustain Metamorphosis indefinitely.
and with Immolation Aura+Chaos Wave+Wrathstorm+Demonic Slash you clear the entire zone in a matter of minutes.

So many exquisite corpses! Thank the twisting nether for AoE looting as well!

I really hope there will be some good AoE farming spots in Mists.

---------- Post added 2012-07-26 at 10:23 AM ----------

Oh and another thing, what am i supposed to do with all these molten core procs?

I was practicing on the raiding dummy and I had like 18 stacks of molten core, they were charging faster than i could spend them. Can someone explain what point is of all these MC procs if you can't use them? It seemed like Soulfire very nearly replaced shadow bolt and demonic slash all together for me.

[woly]

There is a bug on the PTR and most likely at beta too, that your soul fires don't consume any of the Molten core stacks, so Molten Core just keeps stacking up.

[Grubjuice]

ahh! thanks

---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 10:20 AM ----------

I have been practicing Demo's basic rotation and priorities on the target dummies and I have a few concerns and comments.

1) Stacking Shadowflame; supposedly it is superior dps to get 5 seconds of Shadowflame and then 6 seconds of ShadowflameX2, but it's actually quite tricky to pull off.

The problem is that the Shadowflame dot has a very short duration, so you don't have much time to do anything useful between the first and second application of HoG. If you try to fit two Shadow Bolts between the first and second HoG, it often takes too long, and fails to the stack the DoT: I have found, however, that one Shadow Bolt+one instant spell or two Molten Core hasted Soul Fires just barely fits between the First and Second HoG and still allows the DoT to stack. (most of the time).

It would be nice if there were a couple of mechanical changes to HoG to make this less of a bother, but perhaps some people like that it is a skill capping manouvre.

2) Imp Swarm: I am still not sure when the trade off of Demonic Fury for extra WImps is worth it. I have a suspicion that in a patchwerk type fight it's probably unecessary to use Imp Swarm, but it's good to use on fights with burn phases. And you can also use Imp Swarm on a critter before starting a fight so you can start the fight with 5 fresh WImps. However, I think that sort of tactic is a bit exploitative, and though lot of classes do it, i never really like having to find rats and spiders to kill to pump up before a fight.

3) Fury and Metamorphosis timing the long ramp up at the start of the fight puts us at a disadvantage if Blood Lust or any other raid buffs are being spent in the first second of a fight (although you benefit from haste more in caster than in Meta, think of your Doomguard and Dark soul cooldowns.);

Nevertheless, I have to say all in all, that the amount of time it takes to build fury and then to burn fury on a single target fight is not nearly as bad as every one makes out.

I like to think of the Meta/caster oscillation as having a long count and a short count. The long count is a two minute oscillation: you want to be at about 900~1000 fury right as Dark Soul (and for me, Blood Fury) come off cooldown. The short count is based on how often you use meta between cooldowns of Dark Soul in order to burn fury, refresh DoTs, burn adds, land killing blows etc.

One strategy is to use meta every time you need to refresh Corruption on the assumption that Corruption will benefit from the Meta damage modifer. Now, while meta toggling to refresh corruption every single time corruption needs refreshing may be optimial, I feel it's a real hassle to pull off, and I generally don't beat myself up if I refresh or reapply corruption in caster form from time to time. I accept the fact that i am not an optimal player and don't need to pretend to be one. (actually i don't think it's even possible to have 100% up time sustained by demonic slash alone, unless you have insanely fast fury generation).

That usually has me using meta either twice between each cooldown of Dark Soul (i.e. once every minute, off sync with DS) or three times between DS (i.e once every 30 seconds on sync with DS). I use my short count oscillation to refresh Doom and Corruption, and to burn some (but not all) of my Fury so i neither cap before DS nor do i have <900 fury when i next use DS. This I find to be not to big a problem. Engaging but not insanely challenging.

Ideally you should be a little dynamic about when to use meta between DS cooldowns. For example, i have Foul Gift which procs a mastery buff, so if i see that it has procd i will go ahead and use meta then, If i had i haste trinket i would probably try to benefit from it in caster form, and I try to use meta to extend Corruption, but again, I don't beat myself up trying to play optimally.

4) Soul Fire uses a lot of mana even with molten core (or perhaps because the current molten core bug prevents soul fire from benefiting from a reduced mana cost).

if i cast a lot of Soul Fires I know i am going to have to life tap, so a string of soul fires is actually a string of Soul Fire Plus a couple of life Taps.

5) Correcting Mistakes: Did you know that Demonic Leap is on a separate cooldown from Metamorphosis. Lets say you timed your DoTs wrong and popped Meta and Dark Soul right as corruption drops. OH CRAP! and Meta is on cooldown! WHAT DO I DO!?

It's ok though, just drop meta, put up corruption and then use Demonic Leap to get back in to Meta again. since you can walk and Demonic slash at the same time, you don't even need to teleport back to a safe distance, just walk back. the fact is Dark Soul lasts longer than the time it takes to burn all your fury so you can take like two seconds to refresh corruption and get back into Meta and still use all your fury within the duration of DS.

---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 10:31 AM ----------

I would also like to add the Demo is the most amazing Soloing spec i have ever played! I just wish there were more things to kill. If I were a demon lord of Azeroth i would force mobs to breed faster so that there were more of them to kill!

[PlatedPriest]

/cry

the demo bug on ptr makes me so sad. i just want to test! but no demonform just HAS to send me back to stormwind

[Grubjuice]

/cry

the demo bug on ptr makes me so sad. i just want to test! but no demonform just HAS to send me back to stormwind

think of it has having no cooldown on your hearthstone!!!

[woly]

/cry

the demo bug on ptr makes me so sad. i just want to test! but no demonform just HAS to send me back to stormwind

Don't use the aura spells and it won't HS you.

[Grubjuice]

This just in:

• Corruption: Now ticks every 2 seconds over 18 seconds up from every 3 seconds, now but generates 4 fury per tick, down from 6 (ticks faster but generates less fury per tick).

• Pandemic: When refreshing your periodic damage effects, duration remaining on the previous effect is added to the new one, up to a maximum of 50% the base duration. (Everlasting Affliction's old effect is now base line)

• Kil'jaeden's Cunning Passive: the snare effect is now 10%, stacking up to 2 times, once per spell cast. (seems to imply the debuff has a duration but the duration is not listed so, , , )

• Hellfire: now Generates 3 Demonic Fury per target. (up from 2)

• Metamorphosis: base damage increase is 24.00%. (this is just a tooltip update)

• Wild Imps: Soul Fire also now summons a Wild Imp (In addition to Shadow Bolt and Demonic Slash).

• Pursuit: now instantly causes 150% weapon damage (up from 100% I think, not that pursuit ever accounted for much).

• Glyph of Everlasting Affliction: Increases the duration of Corruption and Doom by 50%, and reduces their damage by 20%. (to make life easier for non-pros, like Glyph of Inquisition for Ret Pallies)

• Glyph of Demon Training:Increases your Felguard's total health by 20%. (nice!, better sacrificial pact shields)

• Glyph of Imp Swarm: now has a 2 minute cooldown (up from 1min), no longer costs fury (down from 150), also increases Wild Imp's passive cooldown by 4 sec. (should sync up with Dark Soul pretty well now, but you lose one potential Imp per 120 seconds).

---------- Post added 2012-07-27 at 02:56 PM ----------

• Glyph of Imp Swarm: now has a 2 minute cooldown (up from 1min), no longer costs fury (down from 150), also increases Wild Imp's passive cooldown by 4 sec.

passively you would generate 6 imps per 2 minutes
with this glyph you generate 5 imps per 2 minutes but they align with dark soul.

In a burst encounter you would stack Grimoire of Service + Dark Soul *unglyphed* + Glyph of Imp Swarm
In a long steady encounter you would stack Grimoire of Supremacy + Glyph of Dark Soul + Wild Imps (passive) *Unglyphed*

_____________________________

I can't wait to see if they have fixed that bug where leaving Meta when Cursed Aura was up sent you back to your hearthstone home
and the bug where Soul Fire did not consume Molten Core charges.
And I hope Glyph of Soul Consumption works now.