[Found] Warships Before Darkshore

[Hilde]

Darkshore has certainly been through a lot. Has the shatterspear trolls gotten boats now? Maybe zenn foulhoof got pissed at the night elves and called for the horde.

[GreatOak]

I dont care about the horde arbitrarily winning for some reason. Im just tired of the alliance doing nothing about it like some punching bag. We got NO story development at all in cata. The bias is so blatant. We lose every zone 1-60 and alliance players just feel depressed because there isnt even any story to make up for it. We lose zones and dont even get told why. Malfurion could literally wipe those warships off the map with one spell but he just sits in Darnassus and lets the Horde stab his wife to death.

THIS IS HORRIBLE WRITING

[Primaliron]

It's not the war that bugs me (Very mature way to try and get that belabored point across, BTW), it's that alliance wins NOTHING of any importance, ooh we take out camp Taurajo, tauren players will sorely miss the level or two they spend there, meanwhile horde wins at pretty much everything they do (Any questlines that end in "Oh crap, RUN!", hordies?)

All that alliance have by way of victories is getting back part of what we had before Cataclysm hit, ooh we broke the horde offensive in Ashenvale, shame the horde NPC-camps are still there, Stonard is toast! oh wait, it's back the way it was again, ten drifters and a pair of rogues burn Sentinel hill to the ground, to stay as a big burning symbol of alliance plot-incompetence (We complete all the quests, get a plot-mandated "Oh no, RUN FOR THE HILLS!", and then lose anyway), not to mention all of the Cataclysm endgame content involving horde poster-boy Thrall...

Let's review:

Stormwind: Got beat up by Deathwing, but still pretty damn functional. Closest horde presence is Grom'gal, Stonard, and Vashj'ir Nobody assaulting it at present.

Ironforge: Only trouble was an internal problem. There isn't a Horde presence close than Arathi Basin with an overland route. There aren't even any little encampments nearby.

Gnomeregan: Same as Ironforge.

Gilneas: Attacked by the Forsaken and uninhabited due to bad project management at Blizz. Unsure of future, not occupied by either faction.Starting zone is obviously full of an invasion force.

Teldrassil: Closest Horde encampment is a rather ragged band of Trolls. Closest overland attack route is way down in Ashenvale. Closest potential attack point is Bloodvenom Falls

Exodar: No technical Horde presence since the Blood Elves here are Kael's legion loving band of Sunfury folk. But we'll give it anyway because it feel so overrun and as far as the story goes.... well you should figure it out wjhen you kill the Eredar traitor but whatever.

Orgrimmar: Night Elves attacking the rear gates with fairly significant numbers. Northwatch Marines have two camps in Durotar. The Southern barrens are crawling with Northwatch marines. SI:7 kidnaps Thrall off the coast near the Lost Isles. Mor'Shan ramparts are under siege in Northern Barrens.

Echo Isles: Same as Orgrimmar

Thunder Bluff: Taurajo is obviously gone, and there is no overland route to Orgrimmar anymore, the Alliance have destroyed it and a defensive wall had to be built. To get to Org you have to fly over the Southern barrens warzone.

Kezan: Completely destroyed by Deathwing, SI:7 involvement in the Lost Isels already mentioned.

Undercity: Bands of Worgen all through Silverpine nearby and some remaining in Hillsbrad. Stormpike Dwarves attempt an offensive from Alterac because the Frostwolves abandon the Horde. Chillwind camp in WPL to the east. Sylvanas actually dies in the battle for Gilneas. Former Alliance Dalaran wizards in Silverpine and Hillsbrad.

Silvermoon: Night Elf intruders in Eversong, but mostly in 3 encampments in the Ghostlands.

Whose capitals are more under assault?
Who has more enemy NPCs in their starting zones?

The Horde is getting their ass kicked. The only Alliance capital coming close to being under attack as much as Org is the Exodar, and that's not even the Horde, but I gave it to you anyway. The problem is Alliance players don't see a lot of this stuff because it's not where they quest. The only exception is Gilneas. The one zone they see horde in below level 30 and it's the one capital they lose. The Horde has always been under constant attack from the Alliance in their starting zones since vanilla (though there was less of it then). In Vanilla you could quest til 30 as Alliance and not see a Hordie. But as a Horde you see Allliance at least by your mid-teens. Now you can't get to 10 without seeing them unless you play Forsaken, and you will see lots of them til 20.

But none of this will fill that void in your heart. Because the problem isn't that the Alliance is losing (which they aren't) it's that the Alliance is boring. You aren't that threatened by the Horde. When I play my Alliance toons I feel safe and secure running down the road. My faction leaders don't scare me and I don't have to worry about the constant threat of evil agents posing as Allies. The Horde is far away and not bothering me. I'm snug as a bug in a rug... and I'm bored to death. And it's why almost all my toons Allaince side have been Draenei, and now Worgen. With them I feel a threat lurking.

---------- Post added 2012-04-05 at 12:42 AM ----------

THIS IS HORRIBLE WRITING

This is the true problem here. Even though it's clear as I just posted that the Alliance is doing more damage and poses more of a threat to the Horde, Alliance players don't experience it. Gilneas is the only real low level battle you have until Ashenvale, and it's pretty much a stalemate (though it feels like a loss because the Horde objective of establishing a port is never mentioned and you never see Sylvanas die). In ashenvale the Alliance players never see the NPCs assaulting the Mor'shan ramparts, or the tons of them flooding into Azshara and taking the fight a few yards from Org's back door (technically the NPCs sometimes enter Org though it is rare). You don't help Northwatch drop supplies in Durotar for the Northwatch Marines there. So yeah it does feel like a loss, even when it is not and it has everything to do with Blizz failing to write good quests because they were too busy fixing awkward Horde leveling zones. A few missions into Azshara on a bombing/supply run couldn't hurt for Ashenvale Alliance players. The same could be done in Southern Barrens. Worgen players could be part of those resistance groups in Silverpine/Hillsbrad instead of just having NPCs doing it and players are whisked off to Darnassus.

[Puck]

Maybe it's a new scenario.

[Sidequests]

Warcraft Warcraft Warcraft Warcraft Warcraft Warcraft

Exactly, but at the moment it seems like Hordecraft Hordecraft Hordecraft Hordecraft Hordecraft.
When is the Alliance going to get their Goku?

[LoLHellcy]

Enough of the "Night Elves have already been through enough", guys. This is war.

It just so happens that the Night Elves both hold very valuable resources and have the closest residence to Orgrimmar. They are an obvious target.

We should let up on the Forsaken, i mean they've been through enough with their main weapon being taken away, i mean after all it is on the same continent as Stormwind, so it must be getting hit hard and its borders severely encroached upon, right?


oh wait, the horde won across the board, never mind.

[mistuhbull]

We should let up on the Forsaken, i mean they've been through enough with their main weapon being taken away, i mean after all it is on the same continent as Stormwind, so it must be getting hit hard and its borders severely encroached upon, right?


oh wait, the horde won across the board, never mind.

Because the Horde totally won in Ashenvale...wait no they didn't
And in Stonetalon...wait they lost there too

[LoLHellcy]

Because the Horde totally won in Ashenvale...wait no they didn't
And in Stonetalon...wait they lost there too

So in Stonetalon they nuked a massive druid school, and they didn't lose, it was at *best* a stalemate because of the Grimtotem alliance. And the Horde gained a ton of territory in Ashenvale, pre-Cata you could run all the way to Forest Song and not see any major horde (except splintertree, and even that was down a hill and away).

We've lost Theramore, South shore (ill never forgive blizzard for that one...), Gilneas, we're almost guaranteed to lose the Arathi Highlands as soon as blizzard decides to turn the undead prince against his people still in Stromgarde, and others im certainly missing. There was just a ton of things that we alliance we told "btw, you lost these cities and this much territory"; yet the places we did gain some land we didn't experience it, we got told from a website or friends.

[bufferunderrun]

ba i don't know what kinda of quest many peoples have done; but after doing ashenvale, stonetalon, and the forsaken starting zone is pretty clear that the horde is failing pretty hard every objective. Garrosh and sylvanas are a total fail and the horde is suffering high loss against small targets there is no chance that they set a foot on the nelf tree with only 6 warships and the loss of the shattered spear tribe in darkshore.

[Landin55]

It's people like mysticx and Scummer that make me proud to be a Horde...freaking whiny Alliance sods, "Things aren't balanced, or are in favor of the Horde, my faction needs love, QQ"

Anyway, on topic, this looks pretty cool, it makes sense to me that it would be related to the Varian quest-line about getting the favor of the Night Elves.

You say that...then we find out you play a blood elf....lol.
OT:Shit is getting real, grab a sword and fight the horde!

[BHD]

People discussing lore makes me all fuzzy inside.

What pisses me off the most is, that after getting malfurion back, cenarion back, the ancients back , jarod shadowsong back aswell as maloren! ALL OF THEM seem to do NOTHING in this war.

The Nightelves have some of the mightiest characters and forces in their arsenal, i mean maldurion could wreck the horde fleet with a storm created like the one he created in the exact same zone, but no, all those characters are sitting on their butts doing nothing while the horde is attacking.

i don´t mind losing ground in war or losing due to superioir numbers, but losing because these npcs are doing exactly NOTHING is totaly frustrating from the alliance point of view

They did some serious ass-kicking during the Firelands Invasion, though. The problem with Night Elves and their ancient allies is that they're all pretty neutral. They only attack when attacked upon or when the nature is in danger. I guess the Orcs need to do some hardcore woodcutting before Malfurion, Cenarion and the rest act.

Doesn't really help that Malfurion and the druids are good buddies with Runetotem and his crew.

[Primaliron]

So in Stonetalon they nuked a massive druid school, and they didn't lose, it was at *best* a stalemate because of the Grimtotem alliance. And the Horde gained a ton of territory in Ashenvale, pre-Cata you could run all the way to Forest Song and not see any major horde (except splintertree, and even that was down a hill and away).

We've lost Theramore, South shore (ill never forgive blizzard for that one...), Gilneas, we're almost guaranteed to lose the Arathi Highlands as soon as blizzard decides to turn the undead prince against his people still in Stromgarde, and others im certainly missing. There was just a ton of things that we alliance we told "btw, you lost these cities and this much territory"; yet the places we did gain some land we didn't experience it, we got told from a website or friends.

The Horde always had less territory than the Alliance, it made for bad leveling, that's all that really changed. Your real problem, as I have stated in my above post is something you mentioned in your last sentence, The Alliance is by all practical measures in the advantageous position but people who only play Alliance never experience it. Indeed the Horde experience is insanely more besieged, and always has been to some extent. Make an Orc and see how many Allaince NPCs you have to fight just to get to level 20 in Durotar and Azshara.

I wouldn't be so depressed about Arathi Basin. I have a strong feeling that Danath will return and bring the war to Galen. The zone will probably get a true revamp (they said they never got to it really in Cata and want to revisit). Galen's positioning and Thoradin's Wall speaks volumes, as does the positioning of the road leading to the Hinterlands. Expect the Alliance to take the center of the map beyond Refuge Pointe, and possibly Stromgarde with it. War is coming to the Forsaken soon. They half did a lot of zones, but they mentioned they barely touched Arathi. They did the minimum to smooth Horde questing in the EK as much as possible, and left it at that. Then in the Cata wrap-up they mentioned it specifically.

---------- Post added 2012-04-05 at 03:11 AM ----------

People discussing lore makes me all fuzzy inside.
They did some serious ass-kicking during the Firelands Invasion, though. The problem with Night Elves and their ancient allies is that they're all pretty neutral. They only attack when attacked upon or when the nature is in danger. I guess the Orcs need to do some hardcore woodcutting before Malfurion, Cenarion and the rest act.

Doesn't really help that Malfurion and the druids are good buddies with Runetotem and his crew.

Also: Ragnaros, Deathwing, and Fandral's betrayal were slightly more important than yet another petty mortal conflict. The last time one of the Demigods (Cenarius) interjected himself in Ashenvale, he got killed and it played right into the Legion's hands. That was when the world was in significantly less immediate and obvious peril. It was also a stupid thing for an ancient and wise creature to do since he could have resolved the situation much more easily. Runetotem has probably informed them of the current mortal stupidity and they all just shook their heads like disappointed parents.

Malfurion is also important in Darkshore questing. Though as others have mentioned I think the Alliance only players just want a little more leader love in their early levels. and more interaction with the things they are winning. Those are legitimate complaints.

[The Stormbringer]

People discussing lore makes me all fuzzy inside.



They did some serious ass-kicking during the Firelands Invasion, though. The problem with Night Elves and their ancient allies is that they're all pretty neutral. They only attack when attacked upon or when the nature is in danger. I guess the Orcs need to do some hardcore woodcutting before Malfurion, Cenarion and the rest act.

Doesn't really help that Malfurion and the druids are good buddies with Runetotem and his crew.

I don't agree with this. Cenarius came out and attacked the Orcs with his Night Elf buddies relatively quickly after the Orcs originally started cutting into Ashenvale back in Warcraft 3, and that wasn't nearly as wide-scale as the unnecessary deforestation that's happening now is. Something tells me either he doesn't know, or at the moment he thinks containing the problems in Hyjal are paramount. Once that's finished, though, I think he'll probably come down with all the wrath he can bear, to hell with the consequences regarding mortal alliances and politics.

You're all forgetting that both he AND the Kal'dorei consider the forests to be SACRED. The fact that the Orcs need wood, that's one thing... the fact that they're essentially slaughtering Nature's Children to piss off the Night Elves is another entirely. If Cenarius doesn't eventually go and kick some serious Horde butt in Ashenvale, you can just count out the writing staff for ever making anything seem realistic again.

[BHD]

I don't agree with this. Cenarius came out and attacked the Orcs with his Night Elf buddies relatively quickly after the Orcs originally started cutting into Ashenvale back in Warcraft 3, and that wasn't nearly as wide-scale as the unnecessary deforestation that's happening now is. Something tells me either he doesn't know, or at the moment he thinks containing the problems in Hyjal are paramount. Once that's finished, though, I think he'll probably come down with all the wrath he can bear, to hell with the consequences regarding mortal alliances and politics.

You're all forgetting that both he AND the Kal'dorei consider the forests to be SACRED. The fact that the Orcs need wood, that's one thing... the fact that they're essentially slaughtering Nature's Children to piss off the Night Elves is another entirely. If Cenarius doesn't eventually go and kick some serious Horde butt in Ashenvale, you can just count out the writing staff for ever making anything seem realistic again.

In Warcraft 3 pretty much all the important characters took actions, because that's when they were introduced. (I'm not too familiar with WC, so maybe Cenarius himself was introduced earlier..) I can't deny that the Night Elves and their allies have taken part in mortal conflicts, but in present time they do not. Or rather, not as much as others. Prioritizing Hyjal seems to be a good choice, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what he does next, seeing how we've pretty much saved Hyjal now. And the druids have a base inside the realm of fire itself to protect nature.

Anyway, I think it suits the elven nature to be more protective of mother earth and to be diplomatic, rather than giving in to emotions and fight useless wars. I wouldn't mind a little more rampaging from them when there's Orcs at their doorstep knocking down everything they hold dear, though.

[Deleted]

Horde does need the lumber, pissing off Night Elves is just and added bonus

If they needed the lumber they wouldn't leave it to rot. Rotten lumber is useless. They cut it just because they can, not because they need it. Sure, maybe they need a small portion of that, but they cut most because... just because. It's like I wanted wood from the amazon rainforest and Brazil said no, so I went there with a full force, cut my wood then cut the entire Amazon forest, just because I can and leave the wood to rot to spit in their face.

---------- Post added 2012-04-05 at 10:56 AM ----------

I guess they're changing the Darkshore levelling slightly.

Why? It was one of the best rewamped zones. They admitted it, the players admitted it, why ruin something that's actually great?

[Deleted]

I imagine there will be an alliance questline where you will need to kill their crews or sink the horde ships or whatever, and win.

[ambigiouslynamed]

Not everyone can get magical balls of light dancing around trees to supply them with lumber. So sorry, but we gotta chop down some trees okay.

and yet cenarious and malfurion dont come down and rofl stomp your asses. oh blizz why must you favor horde so?

[LazarusLong]

and yet cenarious and malfurion dont come down and rofl stomp your asses. oh blizz why must you favor horde so?

Because they are fighting in Hyjal?

[ambigiouslynamed]

Because the Horde totally won in Ashenvale...wait no they didn't
And in Stonetalon...wait they lost there too

been to ashenvale? the horde take 2 or 3 of the nightelf bases and all the nightelves are left with is a very small recently established base and town in flames. how did the horde not win?

---------- Post added 2012-04-05 at 04:40 AM ----------

Because they are fighting in Hyjal?

the war in hyjal is long over

[Funkyjunky]

Am I the only one that thinks that it would be terrible to live in a world that's constantly at war 100% of the time, with no breaks in the conflict? What happened to cease-fires, armistices, treaties, etc? A war can still be 'going on' without people constantly shooting at each other and swinging swords.

You are now in the queue for a random tea party.