No GvG in Guild Wars 2

[MKing]

Wasn't there a new GvG battleground leaked that will be in BWE3?

[PonyCannon]

Wasn't there a new GvG battleground leaked that will be in BWE3?

We don't know if it will be in BWE3 but yes a GvG battleground was leaked for GW2. Though it may still be different than the original GvG (didn't play GW1)

[Lucky_]

We don't know if it will be in BWE3 but yes a GvG battleground was leaked for GW2. Though it may still be different than the original GvG (didn't play GW1)

Not "may" but "will be". You can speak with 100% certainty as long as they do not completely change gameplay mechanics of the game itself to accomodate GvG. In it's current implementation, GW2 gameplay model cannot support a mode like GvG, by which I mean two decently sized player groups fighting each other in highly organised fashion, because of lack of healing to give room for anything more then "do as much damage as possible over as little time as possible".

Essentially, instead of a highly complex waltz that was GvG, you'll have a marching slugfest.

[Deleted]

Not "may" but "will be". You can speak with 100% certainty as long as they do not completely change gameplay mechanics of the game itself to accomodate GvG. In it's current implementation, GW2 gameplay model cannot support a mode like GvG, by which I mean two decently sized player groups fighting each other in highly organised fashion, because of lack of healing to give room for anything more then "do as much damage as possible over as little time as possible".

Agreed.
It doesn't matter if the map is in GVG fashion, the skills and professions in GW2 are no where near as complex as in GW1.

[Deleted]

Agreed.
It doesn't matter if the map is in GVG fashion, the skills and professions in GW2 are no where near as complex as in GW1.

Oh boy...

So we have around 100 skills per profession in GW1. The six available slots plus ability to use second profession gives.. shitloads of possibilities (check the math, the actual number of possible combinations is huge). But.. the number of actual valuable builds is.. around 0,0001%.

Hard countering in GW1 was ridiculous. People were complaining in WoW arenas that some x comp was destroying y comp, but in GW1 it was like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Most GvG where you got hard countered, your team didn't even score one kill. It was borderline stupid, you were considered retarded to actually try anything in that situation.

Because of that, in most big GvG tournaments you could see 2 compositions. Through whole tournament (it was 16 teams?), people used only two comps with just VERY minor tweaks for every team. Wow.. how boring and sad it was.

You have a broken PvP system when in your top tournaments people don't want to use anything else than 2 team compositions :/. The GvG was pathetic e-sport attempt. Seriously, Painkiller (low budget FPS game) had more tournaments and more people playing than GvG.

For that reason, I pray to god, that new GvG won't have anything in common with the one in GW1. It was a sad, broken and pathetic game mode. Christ.. I never knew that I would say this but even WoW arenas had more balance than GvG :/ and we all know how badly arenas failed as e-sport...

[MKing]

Not "may" but "will be". You can speak with 100% certainty as long as they do not completely change gameplay mechanics of the game itself to accomodate GvG. In it's current implementation, GW2 gameplay model cannot support a mode like GvG, by which I mean two decently sized player groups fighting each other in highly organised fashion, because of lack of healing to give room for anything more then "do as much damage as possible over as little time as possible".

Essentially, instead of a highly complex waltz that was GvG, you'll have a marching slugfest.

The thing people like you don't realize is that there is still a support role in this game. They provide damage mitigation, small healing, and other support mechanics. Don't make wild assumptions just cause you played the first few levels of the beta. Healers are still there, they just don't heal, Which as a healer from WoW for 6 years, watching health bars sure is damn boring. It's just now your team can't be bad like in other games and expect you to heal everything, Not only are you having to support them with shields(healing if you go water ele) but they will also have to watch their health themselves and keep it up. Hell if you want to you can just stack +healing on all of your equipment, Get +healing gems, Get +healing rune sets on your gear. The trinity is still somewhat there but support actually takes skill and you have to do more than watch healthbars.

[Deleted]

Oh boy...

So we have around 100 skills per profession in GW1. The six available slots plus ability to use second profession gives.. shitloads of possibilities (check the math, the actual number of possible combinations is huge). But.. the number of actual valuable builds is.. around 0,0001%.

Hard countering in GW1 was ridiculous. People were complaining in WoW arenas that some x comp was destroying y comp, but in GW1 it was like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Most GvG where you got hard countered, your team didn't even score one kill. It was borderline stupid, you were considered retarded to actually try anything in that situation.

Because of that, in most big GvG tournaments you could see 2 compositions. Through whole tournament (it was 16 teams?), people used only two comps with just VERY minor tweaks for every team. Wow.. how boring and sad it was.

You have a broken PvP system when in your top tournaments people don't want to use anything else than 2 team compositions :/. The GvG was pathetic e-sport attempt. Seriously, Painkiller (low budget FPS game) had more tournaments and more people playing than GvG.

For that reason, I pray to god, that new GvG won't have anything in common with the one in GW1. It was a sad, broken and pathetic game mode. Christ.. I never knew that I would say this but even WoW arenas had more balance than GvG :/ and we all know how badly arenas failed as e-sport...

I'm not talking about the number of skills or combinations but the complexity of the skills, plus in GvG you had to do a large number of tasks, compare it to spvp - split, kill, collapse...

The majority of guilds played with euro-spike that's true but there were more diversity into some guilds.
Same thing will happen in GW2 I'm pretty sure, most guilds will play with same setup with little to no variation.

Like someone said earlier spvp is a 5 man AB or HB with people.

[Deleted]

I'm not talking about the number of skills or combinations but the complexity of the skills, plus in GvG you had to do a large number of tasks, compare it to spvp - split, kill, collapse...

Don't know yet how many roles/tasks can be found in GW2 sPvP, can't deny that on paper, GW1 had the advantage here. Especially how easily they can adjust few traits to turn a profession around 180 degrees, bit too soon to talk about definitives.

The majority of guilds played with euro-spike that's true but there were more diversity into some guilds.
Same thing will happen in GW2 I'm pretty sure, most guilds will play with same setup with little to no variation.

Like someone said earlier spvp is a 5 man AB or HB with people.

I want you to know, that by no means I'm convinced that GW2 will have more diversity in comps - we just don't know yet.

Then again I find it ludicrous and sad that some people think that GvG in GW1 was anything more than a cesspool. It died faster than 1,2,3.

[Deleted]

Then again I find it ludicrous and sad that some people think that GvG in GW1 was anything more than a cesspool. It died faster than 1,2,3.

GvG was awesome in my eyes and undoubtedly more strategic than spvp will be.
It lasted a few years. The reason GvG died was mostly due to Izzy's balance.

[Deleted]

GvG was awesome in my eyes and undoubtedly more strategic than spvp will be.
It lasted a few years. The reason GvG died was mostly due to Izzy's balance.

Opinions, tastes about what's fun - I have mine and you have yours. Although it is a fact that GvG was imbalanced beyond reason.

[Glytch]

Although it is a fact that GvG was imbalanced beyond reason.

funny thing about facts...

they arent opinions

: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>

a : existing in act and not merely potentially
b : existing in fact or reality <actual and imagined conditions>
c : not false or apparent <actual costs>

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Why call it Guild Wars if they are taking out GvG? Thats lame...

[Deleted]

Why call it Guild Wars if they are taking out GvG? Thats lame...

Here's a hint: read post #120 in this thread.

[Delias]

Here's a hint: read post #120 in this thread.

Along with at least one other post per page.

[Deleted]

funny thing about facts...

they arent opinions

Yeah. That's what I said. You can have an opinion about GvG being fun or not. But GvG being fun for few people doesn't mean it was balanced and it is a fact that it didn't was even close to playable :P.

I mean, there are millions of people who like CoD, but that doesn't mean it's a good game - it's a very cheaply made FPS game (fact), with low budget engine (fact), dumbed down difficulty (fact) and zero realism in weapons (fact). BUT, some may find it fun (opinion).

[Glytch]

Yeah. That's what I said. You can have an opinion about GvG being fun or not. But GvG being fun for few people doesn't mean it was balanced and it is a fact that it didn't was even close to playable :P.

but you scream imba as if anet was the sole cause of the holocuast

[Deleted]

Although it is a fact that GvG was imbalanced beyond reason.

GW1 was regarded as one of the most balanced games at the time until powercreep came in.

[Deleted]

Yeah. That's what I said. You can have an opinion about GvG being fun or not. But GvG being fun for few people doesn't mean it was balanced and it is a fact that it didn't was even close to playable :P.

I mean, there are millions of people who like CoD, but that doesn't mean it's a good game - it's a very cheaply made FPS game (fact), with low budget engine (fact), dumbed down difficulty (fact) and zero realism in weapons (fact). BUT, some may find it fun (opinion).

I think you're not understanding what the word fact means. Fact means that there's a basis for the thesis (commonly called a "source") to be cited when stating said fact.

"But GvG being fun for few people doesn't mean it was balanced"
This is true.

"and it is a fact that it didn't was even close to playable"
This is false. I even have facts to back this up; this random YouTube video clearly shows GvG being played. Hence, it was playable (in case you've missed it, "playable" is made of the words "play" and "able", or in other words, "able to be played").

"it's a very cheaply made FPS game (fact)"
For this to be a fact you'll need to provide your source budget, as well as a scientifically accepted comparison between said budget and a median of FPS development costs to assess whether it's below average or not.

"with low budget engine (fact)"
For this to be a fact you'll need to provide your source budget, as well as a scientifically accepted comparison between said budget and a median of game engine development costs to assess whether it's below average or not.

"dumbed down difficulty (fact)"
For this to be a fact you'll need to provide your source difficulty, as well as a scientifically accepted comparison between said difficulty and a median of FPS difficulties to assess whether it's below average or not.

"and zero realism in weapons (fact)"
False. The facts to back this up is in yet another random YouTube video. As you can clearly see in it, weapons are visible and have a semblance to actual weaponry. For there to be precisely "zero realism", the weapons would have to be entirely invisible or non-existent - which they are not.


Facts are not facts because you say "this is a fact". Facts are not facts because you say "I feel this is a fact". A fact is not a fact until it matches one of two criteria - either it has to be common base knowledge that everyone should know (such as the sun is hot, or water is wet), or it has to be backed up by evidence.

[Deleted]

Why call it Guild Wars if they are taking out GvG? Thats lame...

Thanks for proving that you can't, or refuse to read, and know nothing.

[Lucky_]

On topic of hard countering in GvG, I always used one brilliant example of how GvG's complexity allowed you to outplay opposition even when completely hard countered in semi-finals of a worldwise tourney.

Not sure if it's on youtube, I watched it in observer mode several times when it was available. GW first worldwide tourney, LuM vs WM, matchpoint. LuM had a build that was designed to hard counter that which WM ran. Mesmers with panic (back then panic was AoE hex that game -2 energy regen and did almost 100 damage when using signets) which meant that WM's standard "warriors who are nearly independent of the group" approach back then was simply hard countered. Then LuM proceeded to slaughter WM's monks, putting one to 60 death penalty and all signets used and hard res unavailable (WM didn't run with hard res back then). Victory?

Nope. WM outplays LuM 100:0 with one monk on positioning, pushes them into base with only one monk and warriors who can't regen and have problems healing themselves with healing signets, secure morale boost, get their last monk up and go to win the game and go into the finals. It was a brilliant case of more skilled but hard countered team winning the game.

Lesson of the story? If you think you were hard countered, play better. You can still win. That has always been the main attraction of GvG. Sure, less skilled would have a good chance of winning against you with a hard counter build, but you always have an option to try outplay regardless. And koreans often did, their tenacity being a thing of legends.

That is also why most of the really good teams played balanced builds on top of the ladder. It gave you most tools to outplay opposition. There were more powerful builds all the time, but they tended to be one trick ponies that could do nothing when outplayed.

EDIT: narration link with builds and screens to the game in question: http://www.gw-memorial.net/builds/pastSeasons/GWWC/19/
Official narration from arenanet (much worse then fan based but official). http://guildwars.com/competitive/gww...3_lumvswar.php