Barbarian or Monk - Tank

[calculating]

Trying to decide on which to use, on one hand, I know barb has always been thought of as a tank and has the skills to back it up.
Is the monk viable as a tank? I know they can dodge and self heal but it seems like it's going to be like a rogue tanking, it seems like if they don't dodge a hit they could get two-shotted with a couple crits cause they don't have the defense to back it up.
I have not played beta as a barb or monk.

[mittacc]

you have got the wrong idea about this game m8. there is no healer/tank/dps you're just in a group hackin' 'n' slashin' zombies etc. You can wear heavy armor, sure, but there is no threat or taunts or anything like that. :/

[Raleik]

Mittacc's got it right. There is no holy trinity in this game. It's just a hack and slash, everybody beats on the boss. You may toss out the occasional heal or try and peel a mob off to help somebody out. But, for the most part you'll just be beating on some mobs.

[Dhurn]

Skills and passives determine what your character excels at, not the class. Both the monk and barb have plenty of options that will boost your survivability substantially.

[Strah]

you have got the wrong idea about this game m8. there is no healer/tank/dps you're just in a group hackin' 'n' slashin' zombies etc. You can wear heavy armor, sure, but there is no threat or taunts or anything like that. :/

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/bar...eatening-shout - demoralize rune - 3 sec taunt.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/mon...eath-of-heaven - heal.


If we're looking at inferno 4-man, a group will need a dedicated tank and a healer/support. Someone needs to draw the attention of monsters and get hurt while others deal damage. Otherwise those wizards or witch doctors will be killed in 2 hits, seeing as inferno monsters will be 3.25 stronger than usual.

[Caiada]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/bar...eatening-shout - demoralize rune - 3 sec taunt.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/mon...eath-of-heaven - heal.


If we're looking at inferno 4-man, a group will need a dedicated tank and a healer/support. Someone needs to draw the attention of monsters and get hurt while others deal damage. Otherwise those wizards or witch doctors will be killed in 2 hits, seeing as inferno monsters will be 3.25 stronger than usual.

Any person in your group not dealing a significant amount of damage or letting other's do twice as much damage as usual is a hindrance. There are no tanks and there are no healers. A good wizard or witch doctor won't be getting hit, or they are bad.

[Strah]

Any person in your group not dealing a significant amount of damage or letting other's do twice as much damage as usual is a hindrance. There are no tanks and there are no healers. A good wizard or witch doctor won't be getting hit, or they are bad.

I wouldn't say that if a barb will let me freely go all out as much as i can without me needing to kite will hurt our group more than both of us having to kite. And a tanky-built character will not that lower damage than a semi-dps one. In fact, a tanky built barb+ a 100% dps wizard will do as much damage as "usual" builds.

And i do not agree that someone who gets hit is necesarrily a bad player. You haven't played the retail version of d3, you don't know what lies ahead, especially in inferno mode, where monsters have got lots of affixes, including the ones that would root you in place.

[Caiada]

I wouldn't say that if a barb will let me freely go all out as much as i can without me needing to kite will hurt our group more than both of us having to kite. And a tanky-built character will not that lower damage than a semi-dps one. In fact, a tanky built barb+ a 100% dps wizard will do as much damage as "usual" builds.

And i do not agree that someone who gets hit is necesarrily a bad player. You haven't played the retail version of d3, you don't know what lies ahead, especially in inferno mode, where monsters have got lots of affixes, including the ones that would root you in place.

And that's why any good wizard or witch doctor specs for escapes or a meatshield. If the game is anything at all like D2 (and I've seen no evidence contrary to that), there will not be any place for pure tanks or healers.

[Strah]

And that's why any good wizard or witch doctor specs for escapes or a meatshield. If the game is anything at all like D2 (and I've seen no evidence contrary to that), there will not be any place for pure tanks or healers.

Nobody's talking pure. Just a tanky built character and a supporty built character will be of huge benefit to a group. There are no spam-cc skills, there are no spam-teleport-avoiding-all-damage skills, there is no potion chugging and you cannot teleport from a boss any time you want, it's kill or be killed.

In d2 there was place for anything, really, because it was insanely easy. D3 won't be as easy, and you will need to work as a team, or you won't succeed ( speaking about inferno, obviously ).

[Ghul]

Nobody's talking pure. Just a tanky built character and a supporty built character will be of huge benefit to a group. There are no spam-cc skills, there are no spam-teleport-avoiding-all-damage skills, there is no potion chugging and you cannot teleport from a boss any time you want, it's kill or be killed.

In d2 there was place for anything, really, because it was insanely easy. D3 won't be as easy, and you will need to work as a team, or you won't succeed ( speaking about inferno, obviously ).

seeing as inferno will be completely soloable, im not really agreeing with you there
more people = easier kills, so i dont think its gonna be this hard :>$

monsters dont get 100% stronger with each player ~~

[Deleted]

There seem to be some myths about inferno people aren't clear on.

The game scales to the number of players in your party. You WILL BE ABLE TO SOLO INFERNO! It's going to be rough but its meant to be but Blizzard have already said they intend inferno to be soloable assuming you are the only player in the game. If you have a 4 man team and 3 of you die that one remaining person is very likely going to be a corpse.

But I have to agree with others. There is no tank/healer/DPS triangle. Everyone is has some form of self and limited group healing but there is no threat or healing in the WoW sense of the term and frankly I don't want it either.

And finally any character suitable geared for inferno shouldn't be 1 shotted by a normal mob. That's just crap game design. Sure you'll die if you let it wail on you but that ain't gonna happen.

Hell in /players 8 solo in D2 I cant recall ever actually being 1 shot by a normal hit. I've come close but never ista-gibbed. Iron maiden doesn't count though =P that shit kills you no matter how hard you are.

---------- Post added 2012-04-02 at 11:21 PM ----------

seeing as inferno will be completely soloable, im not really agreeing with you there
more people = easier kills, so i dont think its gonna be this hard :>$

monsters dont get 100% stronger with each player ~~

Actually they do. D2 handled it in such a way that with 8 players in your party monsters have 4.5 times more health and 4.5 times more damage. But I do agree with you on the soloing inferno part. Its going to be rough but if your suitably prepared with a proper build you should be able to do it.

[Strah]

seeing as inferno will be completely soloable, im not really agreeing with you there
more people = easier kills, so i dont think its gonna be this hard :>$

monsters dont get 100% stronger with each player ~~

" Ok, ok, well I don't underestimate our players, potentially not weeks for Act 1. I'd bet on weeks for Act 2, though. "

"For the crazy people they need a HUGE ramp in difficulty, for a more “casual but still hardcore” audience you want an obvious but milder increase in difficulty. So for the crazy people who play non-stop they’ll hit Act I and get a challenge, but 1 month later they’ll still have something to work on (Acts II, III and IV). For the “hardcore-casual” they will reach level 60 later and not get brick walled when they reach Inferno. They can experience some “small victories” working on Act I with the dream of maybe someday reaching the later acts."

IIRC in a 4-player game the monsters are at 325% strength, which means they'll hit those wizards like a truck. In fact, in "you will die, we promise" video a champion mob has hit a monk for 40% of his HP in one hit. And i'm not sure if it's a 4-man game.


Theoretically every game is soloable. I'd gladly watch you finish ninja gaiden black on the hardest difficulty. You'd probably become bald from tearing your hair out.

[Deleted]

" Ok, ok, well I don't underestimate our players, potentially not weeks for Act 1. I'd bet on weeks for Act 2, though. "

"For the crazy people they need a HUGE ramp in difficulty, for a more “casual but still hardcore” audience you want an obvious but milder increase in difficulty. So for the crazy people who play non-stop they’ll hit Act I and get a challenge, but 1 month later they’ll still have something to work on (Acts II, III and IV). For the “hardcore-casual” they will reach level 60 later and not get brick walled when they reach Inferno. They can experience some “small victories” working on Act I with the dream of maybe someday reaching the later acts."

IIRC in a 4-player game the monsters are at 325% strength, which means they'll hit those wizards like a truck. In fact, in "you will die, we promise" video a champion mob has hit a monk for 40% of his HP in one hit. And i'm not sure if it's a 4-man game.


Theoretically every game is soloable. I'd gladly watch you finish ninja gaiden black on the hardest difficulty. You'd probably become bald from tearing your hair out.

325% damage seems reasonable for a 4 man group. All I'm trying to point out is people seem to be under the impression that you won't be able to solo inferno and that's simply not true provided you are playing solo.

And just for the record the Ninja Gaiden example is a bit weak as it's a single player only game. There isn't really any other option but to solo it at least not as far as I'm aware. The original didn't have a co-op at least.

[Strah]

And just for the record the Ninja Gaiden example is a bit weak as it's a single player only game. There isn't really any other option but to solo it at least not as far as I'm aware. The original didn't have a co-op at least.

It was merely an example. If you can beat a game solo it doesn't mean it will be a walk i the park. What i'm trying to say that even solo inferno will be extremely hard, at least Bashiok says so. And seeing those heroic raids in wow i'm inclined to believe inferno will give people a run for their money.

[zaoly]

If we're looking at inferno 4-man, a group will need a dedicated tank and a healer/support.

Nobody's talking pure.

In fact, a tanky built barb+ a 100% dps wizard will do as much damage as "usual" builds

You haven't played the retail version of d3, you don't know what lies ahead, especially in inferno mode

Too many self-contradicting statements

[Strah]

Too many self-contradicting statements

ded·i·cate/ˈdediˌkāt/
Verb:
Devote (time, effort, or oneself) to a particular task or purpose: "Joan has dedicated her life to animals".

One does not need to be a pure tank to fill the "tank role"

[Deleted]

One does not need to be a pure tank to fill the "tank role"

The "tank role" requires you not only to survive incoming damage, but more importantly hold aggro most of the time. One three second taunt every fifteen seconds doesn't give you that ability.

Aggro is normally held by dealing the most threat. As far as I know, no Diablo 3 abilities deal extra threat because they're designated "tanking abilities". That would mean the only way to hold aggro is to deal the most damage. If, however, you make a "tanky" character, wouldn't that by design mean it will most likely not deal the most damage?

D3 has no tanks, and it has no healers. It has up to four (apparently) characters all of whom can handle things on their own.

[Themos]

If anything, that taunt ability will be used to ping pong bosses and rare elites between the players. Juggling mobs like that will take the combined effort of everyone present to make it work, and taunt has the added advantage of positioning a mob. Don't expect to tank or hold aggro with it or any other way though. :/


And based off my limited experience in the beta, Barbarians are quite a bit more squishy than Monks. If something big and bad is fixated on me, I'm not staying in melee if a special attack swing is winding up. >..>

[Wildmoon]

There's no specific role in Diablo. You can play whatever you want including tank but noone will care if you are tank.

[Nikkaszal]

There's one simple reason for there being no "holy trinity" style tank and healer:

Each class is expected to focus not only on damage output but also on survivability, crowd control and escapes.

The idea is that every skill can and will be useful. Monsters will go after wizards, but that's OK because a wizard who's playing smart will have plenty of tools to deal with that. There's no dedicated healer because every member of the party will have ways to survive, avoid and escape incoming damage rather than relying on just one person to top them up.

Here's what happens if, for example, a barbarian with a shield manages to "tank" everything for a four-man party - everyone else is reduced to just using their highest-damage move and entirely ignoring everything else. Wizards and Witchdoctors hold down their left mouse button while reading a book, because they don't need to do anything but sling their biggest spell over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...