Are you sad about losing lots of dots ?

[Deleted]

Good morning, fellow warlocks.

I got my beta access on friday, and played with all 3 specs, talents and glyphs. And besides the "green fire trauma", the "wand auto attack", the "tanking drama" i've seen on various forums (don't get me wrong, i don't say these are not important), i've been really shocked to death with something .... maybe you all got to accept this change already, but i'm still in shock.

My problem is that Warlocks = DOTS. Many dots. Everywhere, all the time.
And to me, it's far more important than green fire (no disrespecting anyone's concerns)

And seeing that :
- destruction : from 3 dots to 1 dot
- demonology : from 3 dots to 1+1 dot
- affliction : from 3 dots to 2+1 dot

Don't get me wrong, the other changes look funky enough to be fun, and might even be enjoyable.
I just feel that the core of our gameplay just got away... and that was the part i enjoyed most.

So ... How do you feel about the lack of strong (aka many) multidoting in mop ?

[Chillerbill]

I'm not a warlock anymore since TBC, but I have to say, I always thought the best and most fun aspect of a warlock were their DoT's (same with Spriests). It's always been sort of a trademark. Shame that they overhauled that, really.

[lancore89]

I'm fine with the amount of dots. The specs beside affli shouldn't be about dots anyway.
The problem I see is in what kind of damage those dots could do. Affliction will get balanced arround Malefic Grasp and probably Haunt. That is what, ~150% more dot damage on our maintarget? Even if we asume Haunt isn't supposed to have a great uptime and should work like a short term CD. Those dots must tick for almost nothing without buffs. And 1/3 of them is single target only anyway

Effective multidotting is out of the question and that's the thing that really annoys me

[Bigtimmy]

The affliction rotation involves a lot of micro management of its 3 dots, shards, haunt uptime, etc. Malefic Grasp hasting your dots by 100% really changes the way you need to manage them. I think it's probably the most polished (using that term very loosely) on the beta for the moment. It also seems like it will, by far, take the most finesse to play (in its current iteration).

Destuction is flat out broken currently, so I can't really judge. Even if they fixed the going oom in 15 seconds issue, it seems to be the biggest "work in progress" right now; however, if there's one spec to focus a bit less on tons of dots and do direct damage instead, this is the one. I don't necessarily think it needs dots as long as you're having to actively manage something.

With demonology (and I'm totally apathetic about the tanking thing), I tend to agree. It's very boring, and as I go through its rotation, I constantly feel like there's 1 or 2 more things I should probably be doing... but there's nothing really to do. Maybe it would do well with another dot or 2; corruption is the only one you have to actually watch, since BoD is only once per minute.

Everyone would be wise to take everything regarding Warlocks on the beta right now with a large pinch of salt. The class is going through a massive overhaul the likes of which you almost never see (and warlocks have seen their share of overhauls, haha). It's going to take some time to get things feeling solid for all the specs.

[Brauhm]

The affi one is incorrect. We have Corruption, Bane of Agony, Unstable Affliction, Malefic's Grasp, and Drain Soul/Drain Life.

Affi still has an insane amount of dots, I'm actually quite happy with it tbqh.

Demo, I'm happy with. We get Bane of Doom, Shadow Flame, Immo Aura (which is now SuperHellfire), and we keep corruption don't we? Or did they make that Affi only? I can't remember.

Destro gets Bane of Havok and Immolate and aren't we keeping burning embers? Or did they remove that too. I can't remember either.

Either way, I really like the direction everything is going, not being restricted by the other trees. (I hated ISF for Affliction/Demo, seriously) And now Demonology really feels like Demonology and Destruction really does feel like destruction. Affliction feels similar but more in tuned from what it seems. I'm happy.

[Jellospally]

To Brauhm I wouldn't include MG/DS/DL as dots since they are channels by us, neither would I for Bane of Havoc since it just copies 4 spells to that target and Demo gets Corruption yes.

Either way all three specs are becoming something completely new and it will be interesting to play the whole class completely redone.

People need to stop getting mad that something changes about their class and they have to re learn their spec. I am glad we are changing because now the 3 specs can be something new...almost like playing a new class.

Not saying I dislike how warlocks are atm...or I wouldn't be playing 2 warlocks both in 8/8hm guilds, but change is never a bad thing.

Also...basically every class lost a DoT because they are going away from multidot the fuck out of everything kinda shit.

[Brauhm]

To Brauhm I wouldn't include MG/DS/DL as dots since they are channels by us, neither would I for Bane of Havoc since it just copies 4 spells to that target and Demo gets Corruption yes.

Either way all three specs are becoming something completely new and it will be interesting to play the whole class completely redone.

People need to stop getting mad that something changes about their class and they have to re learn their spec. I am glad we are changing because now the 3 specs can be something new...almost like playing a new class.

Not saying I dislike how warlocks are atm...or I wouldn't be playing 2 warlocks both in 8/8hm guilds, but change is never a bad thing.

Also...basically every class lost a DoT because they are going away from multidot the fuck out of everything kinda shit.

I really like the "less Multidot" approach they're taking.

But I would have to disagree, I really do feel like the channeled spells are dots because that's how they feel. I don't get the same satisfaction of watching a Chaos Bolt hit my target as I do watching Drain Soul dwindle down and "tick" on my ForteXorcist. Especially in PVP, getting a tick off before I'm interrupted is probably the funnest things I can do (I'm a little OCD so numbers and stuff geek me out). Either way though, I completely agree with this. There is nothing wrong with the way warlocks are done now, nor with the way they're being changed, its different, but cool different.

[Deleted]

Currently: UA/Immolate, Corruption, BoD/BoA, Shadowflame = 4 DoTs for every spec (not counting Immolation Aura, Drain Soul, Drain Life)
MoP:
Destruction: Immolate = 1 (not counting Havoc) (loses Corr, BoA/BoD, Shadowflame)
Demonology: BoD, Corr, Shadowflame = 3 (loses Immolate)
Affliction: BoA, Corr, UA = 3 (not counting Malefic Grasp as it is a chanelled spell) (loses Shadowflame)

The only spec that REALLY loses out on DoTs is Destruction. Which is OK, because their playstyle is quite different from the current Lock playstyle anyway (Firy-Arcane-Mage or something). You could argue that Shadowflame is not a real DoT and then Affliction does not lose a DoT while Demonology still loses 1. So from now on, Affliction will be the "DoT-Class" while the other specs feel different. I like that change.

[Jellospally]

I really like the "less Multidot" approach they're taking.

But I would have to disagree, I really do feel like the channeled spells are dots because that's how they feel. I don't get the same satisfaction of watching a Chaos Bolt hit my target as I do watching Drain Soul dwindle down and "tick" on my ForteXorcist. Especially in PVP, getting a tick off before I'm interrupted is probably the funnest things I can do (I'm a little OCD so numbers and stuff geek me out). Either way though, I completely agree with this. There is nothing wrong with the way warlocks are done now, nor with the way they're being changed, its different, but cool different.

Yea, I mean I guess it def. isn't the same as a direct spell(ps:chaos bolt I hate it is utter shit <3). Be it we roll with a complete reroll of the warlock class(something was due to change nothing but losing ISF from T11 till T13 has changed) or nothing changes I won't quit playing both my locks

Currently: UA/Immolate, Corruption, BoD/BoA, Shadowflame = 4 DoTs for every spec (not counting Immolation Aura, Drain Soul, Drain Life)
MoP:
Destruction: Immolate = 1 (not counting Havoc) (loses Corr, BoA/BoD, Shadowflame)
Demonology: BoD, Corr, Shadowflame = 3 (loses Immolate)
Affliction: BoA, Corr, UA = 3 (not counting Malefic Grasp as it is a chanelled spell) (loses Shadowflame)

The only spec that REALLY loses out on DoTs is Destruction. Which is OK, because their playstyle is quite different from the current Lock playstyle anyway (Firy-Arcane-Mage or something). You could argue that Shadowflame is not a real DoT and then Affliction does not lose a DoT while Demonology still loses 1. So from now on, Affliction will be the "DoT-Class" while the other specs feel different. I like that change.

And I think we all have to agree Destro with shadow damage DoTs is better...its a spec based around Fire...not Shadow Dots and fire direct damage...thats what Demo is for...using both ...or at least was for the most part haha.

[Deleted]

Destro should never of had DoT's in it's rotation, the whole point of it was upfront damage like a Mage.

[Jessicka]

I want more dots. However, having fewer dots does not mean lower multidotting damage. Dots increase ramp up, it seems likely that those specs that lost dots will have merely had all their dot damage rolled into those dots they have left.

I wrote dot a lot there

[Prag]

I want more complex DoT management. More DoTs just means more space for a DoT timer. I like the hasted DoTs for Afflic with MG. I think that's a really cool mechanic. As for not having DoTs as Destro and Demo - I think that's a great change for them. Affliction = attrition. The Warlock is, lore-wise, an amazing class to play. You shouldn't have to like DoTs to enjoy it.

[6kle]

I think it's a bit sad they are taking them away. I hope it doesn't get boring not having them.

[Szemere]

Kinda sad that as Destruction I have 1 DoT to manage instead of 3, cause it added a layer of DoT management being important. Don't mind it being gone if the rest of the gameplay is going to be engaging tho.

[Brauhm]

Honestly, I love passive dots, but I want something that adds into my management.

I think Burning Embers is a cool-as-shit dot tbqh. I also LOVE Bane of Doom. One is a super-fast hard hitter and the other is a super slow super hitter. It's like.. how do I put it. I like dots that can proc things or are proc'd from things that deal damage while I deal damage so I can feel super cool. I really wish they had made the 4pc: Conflag now deals 50% of Burning Embers damage, Drain Soul deals 10% less damage but execution phase starts at 35% instead of 25% and Motlen Core has a 10% increased chance to proc per Immolation tick and also triggers 33% your Impending Doom talent.

Examples like that are ways that I'd, personally, love to see implemented. The thing about warlocks is that we've always been so involved with out dots. I don't want just random dots to do damage but dots to really punch people in the face while hitting a million and a half buttons and then standing on top of a giants corpse like "Yup Bro, suck it."

[6kle]

Demo only having corruption and BoD has one target limit. So if there are a couple of adds you can only put one sad corruption ticking on them. At least it still has shadowflame and HoG adds a bit more to do. Demon form better be something interesting if we are to shadowbolt endlessly in normal form (no more procs for incinerate) and basically only manage corruption. BoD doesn't really need management worth speaking of.

I'm hoping it doesn't feel like playing an arcane mage.

[Deleted]

I hate the change so much. Aff will be the only spec viable in full multi-targets fight like Council, Omnoton, or V+T. The change of Bane of Havoc also ensure this. I know before this Aff was still the most powerful spec for the fight like those fights but Destro was also viable and competitive enough.

In MoP I don't think we'll have a choice(in heroic progression) but to go Aff for the fight like those. The old Bane of Havoc is fun and gives destro a chance in multi-targets fight, the new one has 2 mins cd and only transfer the next 4 casts. Too bad.

[Valyk]

Fewer dots means higher multi-target dps.



Thinking that fewer dots means less multi-target dps is backwards logic.


Take a while to think about it and if you cant get "why" ill explain it.

I am not sure I understand it myself. It seems like the thoughts go along the lines of having fewer dots, the dot damage that we have will be increased, so having only immolate for destro, means that it will do as much damage as BoA+Corruption+Immo? Why is that the case though? Why would the dot damage not be instead moved into the main nukes of destro, and immolate stay the same immolate as it was before?

Or are you talking about having to spend only one extra GCD per enemy, rather than 3? I could see that as a positive, but multi-dotting 4 enemies with 3 good DoTs seems like it would be better than multi-dotting 4 enemies with 1 good DoT, and then spamming a slightly stronger nuke at a single one of them.

[Deleted]

I am not sure I understand it myself. It seems like the thoughts go along the lines of having fewer dots, the dot damage that we have will be increased, so having only immolate for destro, means that it will do as much damage as BoA+Corruption+Immo? Why is that the case though? Why would the dot damage not be instead moved into the main nukes of destro, and immolate stay the same immolate as it was before?

Or are you talking about having to spend only one extra GCD per enemy, rather than 3? I could see that as a positive, but multi-dotting 4 enemies with 3 good DoTs seems like it would be better than multi-dotting 4 enemies with 1 good DoT, and then spamming a slightly stronger nuke at a single one of them.

Assuming dps contributions remain the same, fewer dots means those dots will have to hit harder.
As an example: if both Destro and Affli have, say, 30% cumulative dot damage, but Affli has 3 dots and Destro has one, than, on average, Destro's single dot will hit thrice as hard as Affli's.

[Brauhm]

I am not sure I understand it myself. It seems like the thoughts go along the lines of having fewer dots, the dot damage that we have will be increased, so having only immolate for destro, means that it will do as much damage as BoA+Corruption+Immo? Why is that the case though? Why would the dot damage not be instead moved into the main nukes of destro, and immolate stay the same immolate as it was before?

Or are you talking about having to spend only one extra GCD per enemy, rather than 3? I could see that as a positive, but multi-dotting 4 enemies with 3 good DoTs seems like it would be better than multi-dotting 4 enemies with 1 good DoT, and then spamming a slightly stronger nuke at a single one of them.

Destros damage is no longer dot based. Multi-target damage will be similar to an arcane mage.

Demos AoE damage will be weaker when its only two but much stronger when its 5-6 because of its superior multi-aoe abilites like hellfire, shadowflame, etc.

Affliction is getting super soul swap and SoC is buffed in addition to being able to swap UA to pretty much everyone.

All specs have their own way to multi-target with Affliction really being the only one to use actual "dots"