1. #1

    Bottled Wishes vs Foul Gift of the Demon Lord

    So basically "Cunning of the Cruel" refuses to drop for my priest and i was wondering which trinket would be the better one.

    "Bottled Wishes" would give me 3202 haste(couldnt reach this cap otherwhise) and it lines up with my wings perfectly(Ms/Mb-combo)
    "Foul Gift of the Demon Lord" is listed better in Kilee's trinket list and obviously has a bunch of static int

    I know "Bottled Wishes" is very good at Spine/Hagara heroic but this is a overall question because of reforging.

    So if you were in my position which trinket would you use? Thank you in advance :P

    Ps: Maybe someone knows if in the theorycrafting for the trinketlist mentioned above our 4pc was taken into account?
    Ps2: Before someone asks, no i dont got another trinket like "VPLC","NF" or the "Insignia" (dont even got "Volcano")
    Last edited by turtlefreak; 2012-04-05 at 02:05 AM.

  2. #2
    The Patient
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    The only way Bottled Wishes would be better is if you can't reach 30% haste when raid buffed for some reason. Otherwise the Foul Gift is better.

    No Cunning for me either so far! Curse those loot Gods!
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  3. #3
    I have found that on any single target fight, especially one in which I can easily synch up the 4p set bonus with AA, Bottled wishes is worth between 700-800 PP. Far stronger than Foul Gift, and easily equivalent to any of the other 397 trinkets. In simcraft, it sims at 700 PP with the modified 4p set bonus action list - in practice it seems to be even stronger than in sims. However, this "potential" strength is very situational. It works well on ultraxion for example, but I don't like it for fights where there are adds or I have to continually switch targets (basically every other fight on heroic).

    I would keep Bottled Wishes in your bag, and exchang it for Foul Gift on any fight where you feel t13 4p and AA are synching up regularly. On normal mode there are a lot of fights where you can do this. Not so much on heroic modes.

    Like for heroic spine, you actually would want to use the firelands trinket "Moonwell Chalice", if each spine segment is synching up with it (I believe it should be, but it depends on how quickly your group does it).
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    The Old Guard - my Earthen Ring guild
    Revenant - my Echo Isles guild
    HowToPriest - a great priest forum

  4. #4
    Thank you both for taking your time <3

    I have a followup question:
    When im using "Bottled Wishes" only sometimes should i

    a) aim for 3202 haste when i'm wearing it (gaining Imp DP-tick ) and hang @ 2744 without it
    or should i
    b) aim for 2589 haste when im not wearing it(gaining some mastery) and be @ 3047 when its equiped
    (guess its b) but im not sure :> )


    And then there comes a completly diffrent question to my mind ;P
    At Hagara's lightning phase(heroic) my "Will of Unbinding"-buff falls off because it takes us to long to end it (10 man). I guess i should replace it for this fight, right?

    Ah and thinking about Spine heroic (didnt do this encounter yet).
    Do you really mean the "Moonwell Chalice"? As far as i know it has a two minute cooldown, isnt this a bit long?
    Maybe you mean "Rune of Zeth"?

    Greetings :P
    Last edited by turtlefreak; 2012-04-05 at 04:31 AM.

  5. #5
    Aim for 3202 with it. The damage bonus is pretty significant. Again, it is more than simcraft would suggest. The more you can fit DP into your cast rotation, the stronger it will be.

    Hagara is an interesting fight. Are you just trying to pad meters? Then yes, perhaps. On heroic mode, depending on where you stand it probably won't fall off, actually. If you're just talking normal mode and trying to pad meters... enh... it doesn't matter, you'll never rank without the top 2 trinkets anyway. It becomes a question of opinion at that point.

    For spine... when you are chewing glass on the fight, two minutes is fine. When you are farming it, even a minute and a half is too long. But the strength of your attacks only matters when you are chewing glass. So basically at whatever point that the cooldown isn't up between attempts, is the same point where it doesn't matter if you use it or not.
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    The Old Guard - my Earthen Ring guild
    Revenant - my Echo Isles guild
    HowToPriest - a great priest forum

  6. #6
    Awww... that chewing glass picture sill hurts :X

    So thank you very much for enlighting me on the reforging and the Spine question.

    About Hagara:
    We recently killed this boss on heroic but i wouldnt call it a flawless kill. I guess more Dps especially from my side could make this fight smoother for us. Its not that much about padding, more about improvement.

    So about lightning phase where(in my opinion) my biggest problem lies.
    We play in ten player version and we got two teams of two running for the pillars while the others stand in the middle. So after the elemental dies the phase lasts definitly longer then ten seconds for us. I think sometimes even my Evangelism falls off :X
    We tried the "everyone connects and the phase is over in less then five seconds"-strategy but it didnt work out for us.

    Do i miss something obvious here?

  7. #7
    Bottle wishes all the way, listen to killee25 :>

  8. #8
    For Hagara.... I thought it was easier to hit all the lightning sticks at once, but the fight can be done a number of ways. You can't change how your guild does a fight. In a case where Will is down for pretty much all of the "burn" element, you're right that it won't be the most effective trinket, although you still have to take into consideration "net" dps. If you don't have another trinket that is close in value to Will, then you wouldn't have anything worth trading it out for. Ideally you want a static stat trinket, or something you can definately rely on to use during the burn phase. I'd say just play around with it. There's no "hard rule" for what works best on the fight, especially because every guild does it slightly differently. You might want to try foul gift + bottled wishes for that fight and see if your numbers are higher - it doesn't hurt to experiment.
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    The Old Guard - my Earthen Ring guild
    Revenant - my Echo Isles guild
    HowToPriest - a great priest forum

  9. #9
    Have to ask, too...

    so you mean, it's better to play with bottled wishes and go for 3202haste (without DI) und try to use BW+AA+SF at the same time?
    Or should I go for 30% haste and than Mastery?
    Or should I use the RaggTrinket NHC und just go for haste?

    Sorry, I didn't understand.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...Qoolu/advanced

  10. #10
    So, let's say i want to min max my DPS for standing still fights like Ultraxion and such and i can choose between these trinkets:

    WoU normal
    CotC normal
    Insigna RF
    VP trinket

    Ok WoU is a rather obvious choice, but then?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleisbetter View Post
    So, let's say i want to min max my DPS for standing still fights like Ultraxion and such and i can choose between these trinkets:

    WoU normal
    CotC normal
    Insigna RF
    VP trinket

    Ok WoU is a rather obvious choice, but then?
    CotC(384+) is far greater than the other trinkets, and should always be used.

    WotU (397) =~ BW (397) if (and only if) it is used to both a) reach 3202 haste and b) you can synch up AA/t134p with it during the fight. Even then, the trinkets are just "relatively equal", and I personally wouldn't replace WotU for BW unless it was an unusually grindy glass night and I was just "experimenting".

    In all other circumstances, Cotc + WotU should be default.

    Also keep in mind, if you're doing 95% of your potential dps, the extra 5% will rarely be what wins a fight. I find that most of the time when my guild finally beats a fight, we bowl the fight over or we fail epically. There are very few marginal wins, except for perhaps first kills. Basically... I wouldn't obsess about the trinkets so much...
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

    The Old Guard - my Earthen Ring guild
    Revenant - my Echo Isles guild
    HowToPriest - a great priest forum

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nsj View Post
    Have to ask, too...

    so you mean, it's better to play with bottled wishes and go for 3202haste (without DI) und try to use BW+AA+SF at the same time?
    Or should I go for 30% haste and than Mastery?
    Or should I use the RaggTrinket NHC und just go for haste?

    Sorry, I didn't understand.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...Qoolu/advanced
    Kilee is saying it's fight dependent, strat dependent, and progression dependent. All of these things matter. I trinket swap all the time, and I'll add in another trinket to the mix when we are soon working on heroic spine. There is no straight answer most of the time.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilee25 View Post
    CotC(384+) is far greater than the other trinkets, and should always be used.

    WotU (397) =~ BW (397) if (and only if) it is used to both a) reach 3202 haste and b) you can synch up AA/t134p with it during the fight. Even then, the trinkets are just "relatively equal", and I personally wouldn't replace WotU for BW unless it was an unusually grindy glass night and I was just "experimenting".

    In all other circumstances, Cotc + WotU should be default.

    Also keep in mind, if you're doing 95% of your potential dps, the extra 5% will rarely be what wins a fight. I find that most of the time when my guild finally beats a fight, we bowl the fight over or we fail epically. There are very few marginal wins, except for perhaps first kills. Basically... I wouldn't obsess about the trinkets so much...
    In short, i should "play safe" and stick to CotC and WoU?
    I like easy choices!

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