[MoP Balance] talents

[Plotus]

I play a boomkin and I am shocked at how boring and uninteresting these talent choices are. The only interesting tier is the level 60 choices. All of the rest are healing, movement, or CC related. Yawn!

Level 90 choices are so underwhelming its sad. If i wanted to heal i would roll a restro druid. Likewise for tanking. I dont want to have to shapeshift dance to throw a heal out every 30 seconds to gain a weak buff that only effects our next damaging spell even though we will be losing dps while doing so. Not an epic decision at all.

Thoughts?

[Keiyra]

Welcome to a few months ago

They are mostly ok (most classes get a movement tier and 1 cc tier so that's fine), but having 2 cc tiers and an uninspiring tier 90 is kinda bleh.

- waiting for the next talent revision pass in beta

[Deatheryn]

Yeah, lets hope it changes, as of right now my Boomkin is my only alt but is quickly becoming my favored toon! Here's to hoping that they come up w/ some better choices!

[Underskilled]

I'm not sure about you, but I'm rather intrigued about the newer talents, the amount of survivability we can get from them sounds great.

I'm also looking forward to seeing if Dream of Cenarius affects tranq, it would be amazing to have an even more MASSIVE burst of AoE healing whenever you needed it.

[Plotus]

Well there have been a few updates so far and i have not seen any blue posts regarding changing these so its not looking good. Hopefully i missed something. If i have please let me know. Thanks

[Herbert West]

If you don't want to be a verstile class, capable of everything, why did you roll a Druid in the first place?

First Shamans, who hate totems, now Druids who hate versatility. What's next? Mages who hate damage-dealing?

[Alskonda]

Seriously, I love the new moonkin. Being able to kite and just play with all those abilities are just fantastic. Ursol's Vortex being the best of all, a new mechanic no one else has.
And a 30% self healing can never be bad, no matter if you play pvp, end-game raiding or solo.

Of course everyone can't be pleased, but I enjoy those talents.

[Plotus]

If you don't want to be a verstile class, capable of everything, why did you roll a Druid in the first place?

First Shamans, who hate totems, now Druids who hate versatility. What's next? Mages who hate damage-dealing?

This thread is about crappy Boomkin options not about versatility. I can be versatile by switching specs into resto or guardian. This is why they gave us dual spec. k thanks

[Keiyra]

If you don't want to be a verstile class, capable of everything, why did you roll a Druid in the first place?

First Shamans, who hate totems, now Druids who hate versatility. What's next? Mages who hate damage-dealing?

Oh please, that is such a straw man argument. The versatility of the class has been about how many spec options it had, not being capable of everything within one spec. Since Wrath, when blizzard starting getting rid of the hybrid tax, you coudln't be "capable of everything" within 1 spec anymore - as a boomkin, you are there to be a dps class, and pull about the same dps as other dps classes.

At least for pve...pvp they had some hybridization options, but cata killed some of those (the IS build for resto was an example, or the feral charge build for resto) alas...

The only true "hybridization" pve druids had left was Bear/Cat - being able to share talents and gear and effectively multirole within 1 spec. That seems to be ending come MoP.

[Pascal]

Oh please, that is such a straw man argument. The versatility of the class has been about how many spec options it had, not being capable of everything within one spec. Since Wrath, when blizzard starting getting rid of the hybrid tax, you coudln't be "capable of everything" within 1 spec anymore - as a boomkin, you are there to be a dps class, and pull about the same dps as other dps classes.

At least for pve...pvp they had some hybridization options, but cata killed some of those (the IS build for resto was an example, or the feral charge build for resto) alas...

The only true "hybridization" pve druids had left was Bear/Cat - being able to share talents and gear and effectively multirole within 1 spec. That seems to be ending come MoP.

Yeah, no, most people who have been playing druids since the beginning loved the idea of being a hybrid who can fill different roles at the same time, or being a utility and buffer. I loved being a hybrid and druids were the original hybrids. Druids used to get mad because other hybrids were better hybrids because druids required being in forms to perform their different roles and abilities, while classes like paladins could DPS, cast heals, and get threat all without having to spend precious seconds swapping forms. I'm psyched about the new talents, and glyphs like the one that lets me cast rejuv, ht, and tranq without swapping out of moonkin form.

If you're playing a druid to be confined to a single role, prepare to be disappointed. The rest of us will be cheering in the forefront.

[huth]

I play a boomkin and I am shocked at how boring and uninteresting these talent choices are. The only interesting tier is the level 60 choices. All of the rest are healing, movement, or CC related. Yawn!

Level 90 choices are so underwhelming its sad. If i wanted to heal i would roll a restro druid. Likewise for tanking. I dont want to have to shapeshift dance to throw a heal out every 30 seconds to gain a weak buff that only effects our next damaging spell even though we will be losing dps while doing so. Not an epic decision at all.

Thoughts?

It's the same for everybody else. Also, stop yawning and play properly. Even in raids, all these options can be very helpfull. Especially the movement and healing ones. Dead DDs are still the worst type of DDs.
Personally, i quite like the new design. And it's not like Blizz has much choice... if it's anything not utility-related, we'll just go right back to cookie cutter specs.

[stormgust]

Yeah, no, most people who have been playing druids since the beginning loved the idea of being a hybrid who can fill different roles at the same time, or being a utility and buffer. I loved being a hybrid and druids were the original hybrids. Druids used to get mad because other hybrids were better hybrids because druids required being in forms to perform their different roles and abilities, while classes like paladins could DPS, cast heals, and get threat all without having to spend precious seconds swapping forms.

We all loved being able to be Innervate Bots, spam HT4 and HT11 - and if you were luck to have the highest spellpower Rejuvenation.
Most people who were playing since the beginning actually realized that more than one role at a time is an utopy, no other class would tolerate that you're able to do two jobs fully, while they can only do one. If you were playing a druid since the beginning, you'd actually know just how god awful hybrid tax has been, and why exactly you can't have different roles without hybrid taxes - at least from the viewpoint of soon to be 10 other classes.

I'm psyched about the new talents, and glyphs like the one that lets me cast rejuv, ht, and tranq without swapping out of moonkin form.

If you're playing a druid to be confined to a single role, prepare to be disappointed. The rest of us will be cheering in the forefront.

The rest of you won't be more than a small minority. Everyone who had good times testing out hybrid tax knows just how awful hybridism is, even more so with 80% of your toolkit removed...

You technically being a shaman, while a druid at heart also isn't in your favor in this case. If you'd been true to your class, you wouldn't have switched to begin with.

[Pascal]

We all loved being able to be Innervate Bots, spam HT4 and HT11 - and if you were luck to have the highest spellpower Rejuvenation.
Most people who were playing since the beginning actually realized that more than one role at a time is an utopy, no other class would tolerate that you're able to do two jobs fully, while they can only do one. If you were playing a druid since the beginning, you'd actually know just how god awful hybrid tax has been, and why exactly you can't have different roles without hybrid taxes - at least from the viewpoint of soon to be 10 other classes.


The rest of you won't be more than a small minority. Everyone who had good times testing out hybrid tax knows just how awful hybridism is, even more so with 80% of your toolkit removed...

You technically being a shaman, while a druid at heart also isn't in your favor in this case. If you'd been true to your class, you wouldn't have switched to begin with.

It's adorable that you're so sure that I haven't been playing my druid since the beginning. I originally played a hunter, but swapped to my druid after leveling and falling in love with it. I started leveling it before the original overhaul and finished leveling it afterwards. I officially swapped a few months before TBC, but I played my druid more than I played my hunter. The only reason my guild wouldn't let me swap was because they had enough druids.

I love being a hybrid. I am fully aware of the hybrid tax. I was feral in vanilla and I am fully aware of how gimped feral was, but it was through that harsh environment, with everyone telling me that I should just go resto, that I was able to fully actualize my potential and be as good as fucking possible because I had so much to prove. The majority of our druids actually were feral, and just used resto gear and healed in our raids. Around the time we were in AQ40, and several times on Vael, we let our best geared feral druid start dpsing.

I suppose the majority of the actualized hybrid abilities were as feral and mostly in PvP. The lack of concrete ability because of game mechanics doesn't change the original design intent of the class. The class description for druids originally stated something along the lines of how they were masters of many roles.

I was resto in TBC, and even then I was a hybrid buffer, because instead of gearing for the strongest possible healing, I geared for spirit and my healing buff to allow the other healers to do their jobs better. I was placed in the tank group, before mana restoring abilities were raid-wide, so I had to manage my own mana just so I could give the other healers room to be better than me. I went balance during Sunwell for the hybrid buffs that I provided, and still, while 'suffering' from the hybrid tax, while I wasn't first, I was able to pull top five, usually three. Instead of whining that I couldn't be as good as other players because I was a hybrid, I accepted my role as a buffer and still pushed through to do more DPS than several pure classes in my guild. The other druid we tried having be balance was usually last because he was horrible, but my dedication to being the best I could allowed me to not only provide buffs, but also support the raid encounters with better than average damage output.

I was actually sad when I was no longer a utility buffer DPS. I was topping damage charts then, but if I wasn't there one night, someone else was still providing my buffs.

I know that the new design is not bringing back hybrid utility buffs, but it was still in the spirit of the class.

And I swapped to my shaman because I could not raid as my druid. No guild that supported my work schedule on my server would allow me to play on my druid as balance because they already had a balance druid. It's great that you want to pretend you are super aware of my entire life story. I play my druid more than I play my shaman, I simply raid on it because if I weren't raiding on it, I wouldn't be raiding.

[Jibjabb]

Hybrid tax was murdered in 4.0 when buffs became more passed around to different classes. Its dead.

OT: The talents are pretty terrible all around especially the lvl 90 ones. Your supposed to be excited about them and you just look at your 90 talents saying WTF is this. None of these help me do my job which is being a good DPS. Having the one for pvp is fine and all but there should be some sort of Moonkin option available. And when I say Moonkin option I mean Moonkin. Not OMFG this will help my tranquility or ZOMG I can go bear for a little bit and tank this add lulz fun. Most people if they wanted to be a tank or a healer they would be a tank or a healer. I dont see the Paladin talents making Rets raid heal or Holy Paladins tank. Blizzard screwed the pooch on this

[Divisible]

Who cares if the level 90 talents aren't top notch? The rest of the talents are great.

[Shabutie]

Yeah why roll a hybrid class if you want to just sit and dps? Go play a Mage, Hunter, Rogue or Warlock then.

[Plotus]

Yeah why roll a hybrid class if you want to just sit and dps? Go play a Mage, Hunter, Rogue or Warlock then.

I love these retarded responses! WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT WE ONLY WANT TO DPS!. We have dual spec to do heal and tank if we want. We are saying that there are no interesting options for boomkin dps in the new talent trees.

[Cyberowl]

Because the talent tree isn't about increasing DPS. The goal of the new talent system is to give people choices that fit to their playstyle. The only tier that does increase damage right now is T4, but the plan for T4 is to keep the DPS gain of each talent at the same level so no ability will be better. T6 though sucks and it'll be reworked, I'm pretty sure on that. We didn't get much changes in the last build bc we the changes werent finished. It's the early beta and things will change, no need to worry about DPS atm.

The spells in our talent tree are all good choices and in my opinion we got one of the best talent trees. So stop bitching around DPS talents and instead enjoy to pick up the spells that fit your playsytle the most.

[stormgust]

Who cares if the level 90 talents aren't top notch? The rest of the talents are great.

Two CC tier's are great only because:
a) we do not have those baseline
b) you are doing PvP and need them - PvP use will be close to zero for two of choices on a tier in almost all cases

Hence It's bad design. Other classes get for free (= class abilities), what we originally had (albeit a bit weaker) as class abilities (mostly), albeit a bit weaker.

If they would fix our PvP problems with class design, and not by the means of talent trees - I'm quite confident you wouldn't find those abilities all that great. Of course if you're fine with being overpowered because you can control almost an entire team, or have 3-4 means (depening on the situation) to do the same thing, that would be different.

The spells in our talent tree are all good choices and in my opinion we got one of the best talent trees. So stop bitching around DPS talents and instead enjoy to pick up the spells that fit your playsytle the most.

Each spell may be a good choice. If you compare them across the board - that is talent tree/tier, our class/spec abilities - that they basically give us, what other classes bring by their class/spec. Druids had the most abilities ripped out of their core spells, and put into talents. Now that's lack of ideas, isn't it? To make it worse - they are likely a complete miss on the "choice" part for PvP as well as PvE.

That is:
Tier 1? Wild Charge. Feline Swiftness doesn't stack with boots.
Tier 2? Nature's Swiftness for non-guardian. Guardian will pick up Renewal. Cenarion Ward is conceptually broken (seriously, a proactive/reactive heal? yeah, sounds nice on paper, yet it won't be any better than disc priests spirit shell).
Tier 3? In PvE: Typhoon, if it wasn't for Shannox(Faerie Swarm). In PvP: Typhoon for resto/moonkin (it actually knocks back now, even dazes and no delay!), Feral will probably go with their 2 minute Frost Nova.
Tier 4? Burst -> you can finally choose, no burst -> SotF ought to be more practicable. In PvP? Incarnation or Treants, though if the later survive long enough, their CC seems to be the superior choice.
Tier 5? PvP-ranged: Disorienting roar, PvP-feral: Bash, Vortex may be nice vs. mages, but do you really need it after a 5 second bash? - PvE: sons and sappers...
Tier 6? If you really need an Improved Tranquility (Ragnaros...), else just pick up a selfheal. PvP? HotW obviously...

[zelis]

I don't get why ppl bitch that much about talents in MoP. I think they are good because you can choose which utility you want and all your dps spells are spec based. Everyone is running same spec in Pve anyway there is no choice to make between dps talents in cata so I think those talents are actually great there is no much dmg boost for other class from talents also so we should not complain about non dps talents.