1. #1

    Question Why I think WoW needs more lore put into the game!

    I have just finished reading yet another wow book and can't stop wondering why they don't incorporate this kind of stuff into the game itself ( I know yes that if you're one of thos ppl who read the quest description etc----> i am, or go around finding those readable books ingame -----> sadly i am). What i mean to say is that why does blizz invest so much money into these books (hiring authors or whatevs) when the majority of players dont actually see the contents. Now i deffinatley dont enjoy reading those quest as they often have a good story behind them (espec after the cata revamp) but the way they are displayed if a large factor as it is simply boring. I for one would like to see the epic stories we get in the books to be somewhat/somewhere incorporated into the game, as ppl think of it as just that, a game whereas i'd for one would like to think of it as more than that (like in SWTOR you actually feel like ur char by deciding what he says) and i think this would be best shown by bringing these stories to life in game.

    Show me what u guys think (btw im going to get hit for this but my fav wow author is Knaack :P)

  2. #2
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    I'll tell you the simple reason why pal.

    World of Warcraft is an MMORPG. Because of the games mechanics, it is limited to what he can do with the lore. As the player who plays a randomly made up toon with nothing tied to the lore in the game, the character we play is made to feel like they are part of the story as it happens.

    So what world of warcraft actully does it mold the story around the player in order to make them feel like they are the hero, well the actual lore figures are in the background to them. This is also why when one of the warcraft heroes steps up and does something heroic, the players react as if those heroes are stepping on there shoes and stealing the moment from them.

    This is why the lore can't be extended in world of warcraft enough, because if they did, the player would never feel like the accomplished hero they do, and whine because its all about the lore characters and not there own actions that drives the story along.
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  3. #3
    The decision to explore a lot of lore "offscreen" in novels rather than ingame does sometimes confuse me especially when it's a really important event that a lot of quests in the game lead up to like the Emerald Nightmare being completely resolved in Stormrage. I'm fine because I eat this shit up like it's Christmas (not so much the Knaak stuff but still) but imagine what that's like to someone who just doesn't like reading books of which I know there are many in the WoW playerbase.

    "Ok we killed Deathwing but I wonder when we'll get to do something about that Emerald Nightmare all the druids keep banging on about"

    "Oh, didn't you hear? Malfurion totally dealt with that already"

    "What?! But...but I thought I could...I mean I've got this dagger here. I paid a lot of gold for it..."

    "Nope. Totally fixed. Quite a while ago actually. I hear those pandafolk need help with some insects or something though."

    "Right, right...whatever..."

    It's fine when it's something like Thrall doing a bunch of Captain Planet stuff nobody really cares about or something that took place thousands of years ago like the war of the ancients but when it's a present day, important event in the storyline it just seems a bit odd to do it outside of the game. It's one of the reasons people tend to dislike Varian because to a player who didn't read the comic covering his return it just looks like this guy appeared out of nowhere and apparently it was him that killed Onyxia and not us? Fuck that, right? My point is having this stuff happen in comics or books or whatever doesn't make it any less valid (except in Med'an's case where he should be struck from the records and forgotten forever) but it just means more people will totally miss it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I'll tell you the simple reason why pal.

    World of Warcraft is an MMORPG. Because of the games mechanics, it is limited to what he can do with the lore. As the player who plays a randomly made up toon with nothing tied to the lore in the game, the character we play is made to feel like they are part of the story as it happens.

    So what world of warcraft actully does it mold the story around the player in order to make them feel like they are the hero, well the actual lore figures are in the background to them. This is also why when one of the warcraft heroes steps up and does something heroic, the players react as if those heroes are stepping on there shoes and stealing the moment from them.

    This is why the lore can't be extended in world of warcraft enough, because if they did, the player would never feel like the accomplished hero they do, and whine because its all about the lore characters and not there own actions that drives the story along.
    Interesting, actually. It seems pretty obvious, but it's something that gets overlooked very easily.

  5. #5
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesker View Post
    The decision to explore a lot of lore "offscreen" in novels rather than ingame does sometimes confuse me especially when it's a really important event that a lot of quests in the game lead up to like the Emerald Nightmare being completely resolved in Stormrage. I'm fine because I eat this shit up like it's Christmas (not so much the Knaak stuff but still) but imagine what that's like to someone who just doesn't like reading books of which I know there are many in the WoW playerbase.

    "Ok we killed Deathwing but I wonder when we'll get to do something about that Emerald Nightmare all the druids keep banging on about"

    "Oh, didn't you hear? Malfurion totally dealt with that already"

    "What?! But...but I thought I could...I mean I've got this dagger here. I paid a lot of gold for it..."

    "Nope. Totally fixed. Quite a while ago actually. I hear those pandafolk need help with some insects or something though."

    "Right, right...whatever..."

    It's fine when it's something like Thrall doing a bunch of Captain Planet stuff nobody really cares about or something that took place thousands of years ago like the war of the ancients but when it's a present day, important event in the storyline it just seems a bit odd to do it outside of the game. It's one of the reasons people tend to dislike Varian because to a player who didn't read the comic covering his return it just looks like this guy appeared out of nowhere and apparently it was him that killed Onyxia and not us? Fuck that, right? My point is having this stuff happen in comics or books or whatever doesn't make it any less valid (except in Med'an's case where he should be struck from the records and forgotten forever) but it just means more people will totally miss it.
    The thing is though, we the player are the bad link now in this.

    In the RTS games, we played as the lore figures as the story unfolded, like with most games from tomb raider to devil may cry to final fantasy games, and wow the RTS games, those games never had these issues of people feeling like lore figures were getting in there way, because we became those characters as we followed them on there adventures.

    With making a game where by we create our own hero, we no longer have those ties to the actual lore figures anymore and we feel we're the real heroes, despite being just a randomly generated toon with no actual history or any real meaningful quality to the story itself.

    Lorewise, Varian did kill onyxia, and Thrall and the aspects did kill deathwing, and Tirion did shatter the frostmourne, and all other events. If World of warcraft was still an RTS game, we would be seeing these events happen without some randomly generated nobody toons getting in the way of the main hero.

    Its like having Wolverine battle Magneto, then suddenly some random mutant jumps between them and says 'I will finish magneto for you Wolverine, fear not!'.
    So we the players and our randomly generated toons are to blame for so much of the poorly presented lore now.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    The thing is though, we the player are the bad link now in this.

    In the RTS games, we played as the lore figures as the story unfolded, like with most games from tomb raider to devil may cry to final fantasy games, and wow the RTS games, those games never had these issues of people feeling like lore figures were getting in there way, because we became those characters as we followed them on there adventures.

    With making a game where by we create our own hero, we no longer have those ties to the actual lore figures anymore and we feel we're the real heroes, despite being just a randomly generated toon with no actual history or any real meaningful quality to the story itself.

    Lorewise, Varian did kill onyxia, and Thrall and the aspects did kill deathwing, and Tirion did shatter the frostmourne, and all other events. If World of warcraft was still an RTS game, we would be seeing these events happen without some randomly generated nobody toons getting in the way of the main hero.

    Its like having Wolverine battle Magneto, then suddenly some random mutant jumps between them and says 'I will finish magneto for you Wolverine, fear not!'.
    So we the players and our randomly generated toons are to blame for so much of the poorly presented lore now.
    Oh I'm not one of the players who wants to feel like the heroic focal point of the story at all times. I've always preferred to just be a random scrub adventurer who steps up when the main goodie of the expansion can't spare the time. Leaving the major lore stuff like finally bringing the hammer down on Arthas, Deathwing and the rest to the VIP club has never bothered me as long as I'm at least tangentially involved somehow.

    I wasn't crying out "killstealer" at Tirion and I don't hate Thrall for hogging the spotlight, I'm fine as long as I get to contribute in even the smallest way. We already get to do all kinds of important, world-shaking stuff in defense of Azeroth with our villain bodycounts being pretty impressive by this point so I'm not really bothered if Turalyon or whoever turns up and takes the last 1% off Sargeras later as long as we get to be there. The reason why I was somewhat disappointed by the Emerald Nightmare sitation (apart from being done in a Knaak book) was that we've dealt with so much crap caused by it in the game (the Nightmare dragons, Eranikus and his Sunken Temple buddies etc) it just felt somehow anticlimactic with our only involvement being giving Malfurion and Tyrande a quick brofist each for a job (apparently) well done.

    I do agree with you that the story shouldn't revolve completely around making the player feel like a badass but I'd still like to be there for the big events in the world I spend my weekends fighting to save even if I'm only cheering from the sidelines.

  7. #7
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Well I agree too, I personally have never had an issue with being just a footsoldier in a large battle where one of the main heroes of warcraft does the heroic act, thats how it should be. I think they even should have included Varian in the onyxia revamped raid to make it obvious lorewise he killed her.
    But there are so many players who feel they are the hero and need to be treated so, having it all revolve around them, and then cry mary sue whenever a lore figure does something of the same nature they are doing.
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  8. #8
    Personally I love the fact that I am merely a follower of a major character. I at times picture myself from a RTS point of view, the grand hero attacking some great villain and here, my character is besides him, providing needed support. Then whenever I play a RTS I pick some random solider and then imagine that its me during the combat and if I die I get sad lol.

    I would like more lore, at least the major point points. Having the dream taken care of (for the most part) was something that should have been mentioned in some form in WoW, I don't expect all the details to be known.
    (On Dark Iron, US Realm)

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Dragore's Avatar
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    To bring it into real life i always imagine it as we are soldiers in an army. The credit goes to the country/president/general/etc instead of the actual soldiers. Obama killed Osama Bin Ladin, where as it was actually navy seals.

  10. #10
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragore View Post
    To bring it into real life i always imagine it as we are soldiers in an army. The credit goes to the country/president/general/etc instead of the actual soldiers. Obama killed Osama Bin Ladin, where as it was actually navy seals.
    Actully if it was a real life comparison, obama would have been there fighting bin ladin hand to hand and winning. This is why it works in fantasy, the heroes become.. well, heroes, and not just guys in suits.
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  11. #11
    Mechagnome Dryade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesker View Post
    The decision to explore a lot of lore "offscreen" in novels rather than ingame does sometimes confuse me especially when it's a really important event that a lot of quests in the game lead up to like the Emerald Nightmare being completely resolved in Stormrage. I'm fine because I eat this shit up like it's Christmas (not so much the Knaak stuff but still) but imagine what that's like to someone who just doesn't like reading books of which I know there are many in the WoW playerbase.

    "Ok we killed Deathwing but I wonder when we'll get to do something about that Emerald Nightmare all the druids keep banging on about"

    "Oh, didn't you hear? Malfurion totally dealt with that already"

    "What?! But...but I thought I could...I mean I've got this dagger here. I paid a lot of gold for it..."

    "Nope. Totally fixed. Quite a while ago actually. I hear those pandafolk need help with some insects or something though."

    "Right, right...whatever..."

    It's fine when it's something like Thrall doing a bunch of Captain Planet stuff nobody really cares about or something that took place thousands of years ago like the war of the ancients but when it's a present day, important event in the storyline it just seems a bit odd to do it outside of the game. It's one of the reasons people tend to dislike Varian because to a player who didn't read the comic covering his return it just looks like this guy appeared out of nowhere and apparently it was him that killed Onyxia and not us? Fuck that, right? My point is having this stuff happen in comics or books or whatever doesn't make it any less valid (except in Med'an's case where he should be struck from the records and forgotten forever) but it just means more people will totally miss it.

    The excuse of "some players don't want to read the novels" is horse shit, and it needs to stop being used. You can find all the lore you could ever want on Wowpedia, so please, enough.

    Also, how exactly do you expect all of the lore packed into a book, to be implemented through questing and raids? The books have the ability to get far more detailed and in depth, than any quest/raid could offer. There is no comparison, and the novels really are needed to progress the story.

  12. #12
    I totally agree that they need to put more of the lore into the game that so far has only been in books/comics. I understand what some people have said that our characters are just random guys that arent all that important and in the lore Thrall/Varian/major lore character was the one that actually killed the boss that we killed in game but thats only a very narrow slice of the lore pie.

    For raids Ulduar is one of the best raids where lore is incorporated into the game. The whole quest chain in Storm peaks and the Halls of lightning set up the boss fights in the raid so we know who they are and why we are fighting them. Besides Deathwing, no one knows who the other bosses are in DS and for FL only Staghelm, Alysra and Ragnaros have any kind of lore before the actual encounter.

    Other great moments in in game lore is the Battle of the Undercity quest. You take part in an important lore event and the world changes when you have completed it. Like someone mentioned the Emerald Dream, we could be on a quest to aid Malfurion get to whatever guy he is trying to defeat and then they can have a scripted even where he fights that guy. Then the lore would be in the game instead of after some random patch you see Malfurion and he tells you about how awesome it was. More world events would be a great way to put more lore into the game. What if there had have been a world event for the alliance where they help Varian escape from slavery after which he pops up in Stormwind. Basically the game needs to be more fluid and not rely on huge raid content patches for an advancement of the story. Even if they added 1 or 2 more daily areas per patch that are major lore related it would be good.

    So as we played as the lore characters in the RTS games we can play with the RTS characters in the mmo but it should be more than just last boss kill(and not them killing more bosses we can do ourselves).

  13. #13
    Field Marshal Wardemon's Avatar
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    I would love for Blizzard to do what Bioware did with questing in SWTOR. I love watching cinematic and choosing what to say. That, im my opinion of course, would add alot to the lore and make quest a lot more fun.

  14. #14
    I think its just the evolution of the genre for the most part; the system is set up so you are a nameless grunt; which sadly I get tired up when you fight kill and don the armor of some ultimate hero but I guess that's what all soldiers do? Its just blizzards formula at this time and I don't think it is possible to reinvent that aspect since WoW is already so defined. This makes me believe though why many mmos that are coming out are giving more of a nod to personal story where your character is someone important so in the end the player feels like they tangibly altered the game universe.
    It needs to be 20% cooler.

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