How is the Alliance losing so much?

[Frozenbeef]

lots of tings in wow don't make sense :S

if the alliance want to destroy the undead in undercity why don't they make the gnomes create a radiation bomb and then have their mages teleport the bomb into the centre of undercity? >.<

[Caliverne]

lots of tings in wow don't make sense :S

if the alliance want to destroy the undead in undercity why don't they make the gnomes create a radiation bomb and then have their mages teleport the bomb into the centre of undercity? >.<

Because it doesn't make a good story now does it? >_>

Thor god of thunder, Superman, and Batman. All have the absolute power to kill their foes but don't, why? Where the F does it go from there? Would it even be compelling? It would be very anticlimactic . <_<

[Scummer]

Because Chris Metzen forgot WoW has two factions when he wrote Cata's story.

Seriously I've taken every comparison between Horde and Alliance in Cata with a grain of salt. I think it was mostly shock and awe tbh. Cataclysm has pretty much been the story of Thrall saving Azeroth and Garrosh starting numerous conflicts. All the conflicts the Alliance lose I feel sour about. We're supposed to have the largest and probably strongest military force on Azeroth and yet we've seen none of it at all.

I think the reason we're losing tbh is a mixture of shock and awe combined with the utter lack of Alliance leadership action due to poor decision by Blizzard. It's hard to directly tell why we're losing when our leaders are just sitting on their thrones because Chris Metzen forgot about us.

[ijffdrie]

As someone who recently analyzed "lands of conflict'" (link in sig), I'd have to say, yeah, the numbers in the RPG are frigging bunk. Entire species are missing, stormwind has a higher population of living humanoids than the rest of the continent put together and there are wildhammer dwarves in pretty much every zone.

As for why the alliance are losing so much? Probably because they are always the ones being attacked. Seriously, has the alliance attacked anything that the horde possessed before cataclysm other than Taurajo?

[Caliverne]

As someone who recently analyzed "lands of conflict'" (link in sig), I'd have to say, yeah, the numbers in the RPG are frigging bunk. Entire species are missing, stormwind has a higher population of living humanoids than the rest of the continent put together and there are wildhammer dwarves in pretty much every zone.

As for why the alliance are losing so much? Probably because they are always the ones being attacked. Seriously, has the alliance attacked anything that the horde possessed before cataclysm other than Taurajo?

uhh... Well they were planning and preparing to attack a couple of places but got shut down and taken out of the picture quickly and completely.

[Finn mac cool]

I am wondering which race is the strongest lorewise.
I know the average orc has more brute strenght than the average human, but how do other races add to the equation?
Especially, Worgen, NE, Tauren, Draenei and Trolls.
Anyone got a list from strongest to weakest of the races (backed up by lore, not by what you think it should be)?
It might help explain how the horde wins so much teritory

I feel like a werewolf aka worgen would be the second strongest to Tauren when they are in their wolfish state.

[ijffdrie]

The only real objective data we have on strength is from the now non-canon RPG. Still, it's nice to know. I'm gonna go with the first edition RPG, rather than the second, as the second is focused more on balanced gameplay. I'm going to provide two lists. The first for strength, the second for all physical stats(strength, dexterity, constitution) put together.

Strength:
+6: Worgen
+4: Tauren
+2: Draenei (lost one)
+0: Human, Dwarf, high elf, night elf, orc, wildhammer dwarf, blood elf, pandaren
-2: Goblin, gnome

Total
+12: Worgen
+6: Tauren
+4: Pandaren
+2: Dwarf, orc, wildhammer dwarf
+0: Humans, high elf, night elf, blood elf, goblin(though this might be another one of the many minor errors, as the text seems to indicate they should get +2 intelligence rather than +2 dexterity), draenei(lost one)
-2: gnome

[Rhys]

Because it wouldn't be a very interesting story if the Alliance steamrolled the Horde like they would if this game was real life.

People seem to forget that this is actually a game with actual writers behind it. Devaluing someone's opinion because their faction did some bad stuff at one point is moronic, dismissing a character because they are a bad leader and not because they are a bad character is moronic, assuming this game will progress in a realistic manner is moronic.

I felt that was necessary.

[Mionelol]

I swapped to Horde.

[zephid]

The Horde might just be better than the alliance, it could actually be that simple.

[Shakari]

You need to go by Warcraft 3 "stats" to have a more realistic view of the military power, 1 Orc Warrior is much stronger than a Footman, 1 Tauren Warrior is most likely stronger than 4 Footmen.

Think of Alliance as "zergy" whereas Horde is more powerful but less of them.

Also think of their cultures, almost all Orc citizens are at least Warriors of some kind, only very lowly Peons arent. In the Human kingdom that is not the case at all. In Human, NE, Gnome and Dwarf cultures its okay to say "i dont wanna fight, i wanna sit in a tree and eat a apple while i read a book", i dont think that is accepted in Orc, Troll or Undead communites, probably in Tauren tough.


Sure in game we are all equal, but in lore Orcs are physically stronger than Humans, NE, Draenei, only perhaps Dwarves are equal in physical strenght, though i doubt it. Nobody matches Taurens in pure physicality:
Tauren are the most powerful ground melee unit.
source official Blizzard: http://classic.battle.net/war3/orc/units/tauren.shtml

Its also a 5 food unit, whereas a Footman is merely 2 food.

I would agree with this except the Night elves, there a lot stronger than humans bigger builds and also far more agile. The the alliance equivalent of the taurens imo. As there not as many of em compared to the other alliance races but what they lack in number they make up for in fighting ability.

[Zoma]

I am wondering which race is the strongest lorewise.
I know the average orc has more brute strenght than the average human, but how do other races add to the equation?
Especially, Worgen, NE, Tauren, Draenei and Trolls.
Anyone got a list from strongest to weakest of the races (backed up by lore, not by what you think it should be)?
It might help explain how the horde wins so much teritory

Probably the closest thing to an official source is the starting strength of each race's warrior class.

Tauren/Dwarf - 28
Orc/Worgen - 26
Troll/Draenei - 24
Human/Pandaren - 23
Forsaken - 22
Blood Elf/Goblin - 20
Night Elf - 19
Gnome - 18

Disregarding Pandaren, Horde strength is 140, Alliance is 138

[ijffdrie]

Probably the closest thing to an official source is the starting strength of each race's warrior class.

Tauren/Dwarf - 28
Orc/Worgen - 26
Troll/Draenei - 24
Human/Pandaren - 23
Forsaken - 22
Blood Elf/Goblin - 20
Night Elf - 19
Gnome - 18

Disregarding Pandaren, Horde strength is 140, Alliance is 138

The problem is that those stats needed to be very close for gameplay balance.

[GrimDesign]

lots of tings in wow don't make sense :S

if the alliance want to destroy the undead in undercity why don't they make the gnomes create a radiation bomb and then have their mages teleport the bomb into the centre of undercity? >.<

I dont even think a virus bomb would work on the forsaken, they would grow an extra toe but lose all of their (now) defunct organs.


When it comes to strengths of the Alliance:

Worgen:
+savage, faster than other Alliance races, high dexterity.
-Lacks economy, infrastructure, no standing army, scattered

Draenai:
+physically Strong, survivors, strong relationship to benevolent beings.
-lack numbers, weak infrastructure, non-aggressive/passive.

Humans:
+strong infrastructure, standing army, strong ties to allies, adaptive, average
-not overly impressive physically, defensive in the extremes, average

Dwarves:
+physically strong and tough, master craftsmen, well-established infrastructure, technology
-slower physically, tenuous Dwarven triarchy

Gnomes:
+highly intellectual, strong technology, adaptive, strong army support, strong Dwarven ties
-physically frail, technology backfires often, no infrastructure.

Night Elves:
+ Highly dextrous, long lived, skilled in combat, strong ties to nature, skilled in guerrilla style warfare
- least connected in Alliance (spatially and spiritually), arrogant, most susceptible to Horde invasion


Horde species:

Orcs:
+savage, strong, higher than normal stamina, tough, standing army, infrastructure enabled
-aggressive to the extremes, habitat is bare of materials and supplies, unreasonable when angered

Tauren:
+physically strong, highest stamina of other species, attuned to nature, peaceful,defensible capital
-passive, only recently established infrastructure, no standing army

Forsaken:
+resilient, industrious, strong infrastructure, strong standing army, immune to hunger and disease, survivors, strong ties to Blood elves
-arrogant, aloof, untrustworthy, tenuous place within the Horde, most susceptible to alliance invasion.

Blood elves:
+long lived, dextrous, skilled in ranging, magic and the bow, strong (but damaged) infrastructure in place.
-recently recovered from mana addiction, questionable morals, arrogant, leadership in question, pushovers within the horde

Goblins:
+industrious and brilliant, skilled within economics and craftsmanship, strong grasp of tactics
-physically frail, unhealthy relationship with explosives, considered untrustworthy

Trolls:
+ physically strong, quite literally EVERYWHERE, have a degree of savageness, proficient in combat, fast assembled army's
- tend to fight each other a lot, weak infrastructure, weak grasp of tactics, typically kill their gods whenever possible.



in conclusion: Horde tends to have more physically impressive races counted amongst themselves but are not as industrious and have a weaker infrastructure than the Alliance. The Alliance has a stronger infrastructure in place, is stronger economically, and has a better foundation than the horde but only have about two species that can physically compete with the horde. The Horde themselves probably would have been in a rougher spot without the forsaken in place, any "extinction" of a species with the horde would have immediate and dire consequences, conversely in the Alliance, such an event would not have quite the impact.

[mcnally86]

The horde lost Cain, that is equal to every dwarf dieing.

[Reg]

You have to also remember that most Horde races are raised to fight. The Humans might have a large population, but a lot of them are farmers and workers within the kingdom. They aren't bred to fight.

[namelessone]

This war between the Horde and Alliance. The Horde has a population of about 30k all together, excluding the Blood elves.
The population of Stormwind its self is 200,000, Iron Forge has a population of about 20,00, Darnassus is at 13k. So how is the Alliance losing so much land?
I know not everyone in going to enlist in the military but I mean you'd think that in time of war, the Alliance would have more troops. Plus the Alliance has better technology than the Horde. 233k vs. roughly 30k.

RPG isn't canon. Next!

[Krony]

I agree with everything but i do believe the night elfs are going to be stronger now they should have learned by now from stonetalon mountains with thier druids all being blown up and they are making a massive army in feralas they are recruiting all things of animals to fight now with treants dragons ect.

[ijffdrie]

RPG isn't canon. Next!

To be fair, it is still completely silly for the horde to outnumber the alliance. The entire orc population of orgrimmar fit on a few stolen ships back in Warcraft III, and that is before most of the warsong clan turned evil and the frostwolf clan went back to lordaeron. The darkspear tribe is supposed to be close to extinction and have lost another half of their populace due to zalazane. The tauren were about to have their last people killed when they met the orcs. The blood elves lost roughly 90% of their populace due to the scourge invasion, lost another majority who joined Illidan or Kael'thas and lost another fraction to addiction. The goblins lost their homeland, with the sole survivors on boats.

On the alliance side, Dun Morogh made out fine in the second war, and didn't really have any conflicts other than that for several hundred years. The night elves were supposed to inhabit most of northern kalimdor and had at least a thousand years of peace. Kul Tiras suffered in the second war, but was never quite brought to destruction. Sure, the alliance has factions that were nearly driven to extinction (stormwind, alterac, stromgarde, gnomeregan, exodar), but it also has a few factions that are actually supposed to be numerous, when the horde has none.

[Caliverne]

How many years has it been since WC III?