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  1. #141
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    Don't forget elementalists with dagger/dagger and necromancers with axe/warhorn. While not melee, it's close-ranged.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Novmiech View Post
    Shows a boss with: 1. very easily dodged ranged rock throw, 2. easily dodged ranged shockwave, and 3. what appears to be a unavoidable large AoE with a very short telegraph. Looks borked for melee still. If its bad in PvE it will be awful in PvP.
    Don't judge PvP in GW2 based on one PvE fight ^^. In GW1 melee were less used in PvE (though viable most of the time and necessary for some comps), but PvP was quite different story.

    The only thing that is likely is that playing melee will be harder than ranged.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Don't judge PvP in GW2 based on one PvE fight ^^. In GW1 melee were less used in PvE (though viable most of the time and necessary for some comps), but PvP was quite different story.

    The only thing that is likely is that playing melee will be harder than ranged.
    Well I have watched I think every GW2 vid there is tbh haha. It all looks very similar.

    I don't mind melee being harder I just want there to be a pay off for being one of the dedicated few, if you manage to not die =D

  4. #144
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novmiech View Post
    Well I have watched I think every GW2 vid there is tbh haha. It all looks very similar.

    I don't mind melee being harder I just want there to be a pay off for being one of the dedicated few, if you manage to not die =D
    Well with every prof I've seen but maybe ranger, Melee weps bring a lot more to the table, you get conditions on like every skill ON TOP OF the flat out damage the skills do, and it looks like Melee does same amount of damage (roughly) that range does and floods them with condition that'll be doin damage when you're not there ANDd help with control.

    I doubt Melee will be gimped, they -may- not do as much dps as ranged, but who the hell cares? I'd rather a fight last a bit longer with a good Melee that helps control the bad people then some idiot range whose trying to top some dps chart that no one cares about.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    I doubt Melee will be gimped, they -may- not do as much dps as ranged, but who the hell cares? I'd rather a fight last a bit longer with a good Melee that helps control the bad people then some idiot range whose trying to top some dps chart that no one cares about.
    If melee does more damage, the main argument will be that you will want to bring melee to make fights shorter, i.e. risks taken by taking melee over ranged are less then risks caused by longer fight duration due to lower damage.

    If melee does less damage, it's pointless. Ranged can control much better and can do damage at the same time.

  6. #146
    Damage in PvE isn't my concern(while on target); it's survivability.

    In PvP it is both. In the current model I just don't see how a warrior with a 2h/1h+shield would ever beat a different warrior with 2h/ ranged weapon in 1v1.

    Oh wells time will tell.

  7. #147
    Damage in PvE is a concern because damage is survivability. The less time encounter lasts, the less damage you need to endure.

    That's how we could run relevant 25 content in WoW with 2-3 healers. Just bring so much damage that they don't have the time to get overwhelmed.

  8. #148
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    If melee does more damage, the main argument will be that you will want to bring melee to make fights shorter, i.e. risks taken by taking melee over ranged are less then risks caused by longer fight duration due to lower damage.

    If melee does less damage, it's pointless. Ranged can control much better and can do damage at the same time.
    Melee and ranged do same damage, ranged have more survivablity but less control, where Melee seem to have more control due to every skill having a condition, Melee -may- do more damage if they sit on the enemy the whole time due to what ever bleeds they apply doing damage in addition to their swings, but who cares? That'd also be assuming NO ONE else is bringing bleeds which is unlikely.

    Ranged can control, but not a well ffrom what I'm seeing in skills alone, Melee skills tend to have shorter CD and have better conditions where ranged have cripple and the rare daze

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 09:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Damage in PvE is a concern because damage is survivability. The less time encounter lasts, the less damage you need to endure.

    That's how we could run relevant 25 content in WoW with 2-3 healers. Just bring so much damage that they don't have the time to get overwhelmed.
    Or you can bring 8-10 healers and laugh in the face of danger, althought my example doesn't really work in wow anymore not that every boss and their grandma ha an enrage timer, but you get the point, both are perfectly viable and both have their advantages a disadvantages
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    If melee does more damage, the main argument will be that you will want to bring melee to make fights shorter, i.e. risks taken by taking melee over ranged are less then risks caused by longer fight duration due to lower damage.

    If melee does less damage, it's pointless. Ranged can control much better and can do damage at the same time.
    I think the way it would work better is if melee had more survivability to compensate for bigger exposure. If you ever played LoL the way it works there you get the ad/ap carries with high damage, low survivability, range and you get the melee bruisers with good cc and damage and survivability. Melee take the front line, rangeds the mid/back line.

    Also from what I looked 2h melee weapons have better disables/disables on shorter cooldown than rest.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    I think the way it would work better is if melee had more survivability to compensate for bigger exposure. If you ever played LoL the way it works there you get the ad/ap carries with high damage, low survivability, range and you get the melee bruisers with good cc and damage and survivability. Melee take the front line, rangeds the mid/back line.
    .. and how would you work this into weapon skills, exactly? >.>
    Since every melee class can be ranged, it would mean that if a melee swaps over to a rifle they would have range, survivability, and damage.
    If you set the traits up in a way to not allow melee to use a ranged weapon effectively, it would lower the options you have significantly and that is not what they want to do with the traits.

    Giving melee/very short ranged weapons more damage than ranged weapons is the easiest way to solve it. Melee/very short ranged would be a high risk, high reward playstyle.
    Messing with survivability based off of weapon type would take a lot more re-working of game mechanics, and it would most likely end up as something people do not like.
    People like the freedom they have with weapon swapping and traits and what not at the moment, don't want to be 'locked in'.

  11. #151
    Conditions (including knockdown and knockback) rifle and bow each bring 4.
    Hammer, Sword/Horn, sword/mace, mace/mace, mace/sword, mace/horn bring 5.
    Everything else brings equal or less to the fight.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-11 at 07:53 AM ----------

    Another gripe I have with the hybrid melee/ranged namely in the warrior is alot of his utility skills are based on either getting to or getting away from a target. Suck as bull's rush/rush, or kick/throw bolas/rifle butt. And one wont compliment the other.
    Last edited by Novmiech; 2012-04-11 at 02:55 PM.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    Or you can bring 8-10 healers and laugh in the face of danger, althought my example doesn't really work in wow anymore not that every boss and their grandma ha an enrage timer, but you get the point, both are perfectly viable and both have their advantages a disadvantages
    The point I was trying to make was in reference to GW2. Since we don't have dedicated healers, damage becomes the only reliable way of "hard" increasing of survivability.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    The point I was trying to make was in reference to GW2. Since we don't have dedicated healers, damage becomes the only reliable way of "hard" increasing of survivability.

    Toughness and vitality as well as having tons of support and control skills would prolong the fight in a similar way, note I said SIMILAR not the same lol
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  14. #154
    You can be a melee but you will be at some point forced by the encounter to react outside your preferred role. While dodging and attacking violently head-on is fun, you will need to play very defensively in PvE encounters to succeed. Being ranged isn't a blessing either since you will constantly be on the move running from angry monsters while laying traps/attacking.

    While you can melee the skill cap in this game is very high and requires great dexterity and knowledge of the encounter to solely focus on being melee. The reason why most warrior/thieves/paladins stick at range in most encounters is because they have yet to learn them and maximize their character's performance. Looking at things "from a distance" gives you a better understanding of the fight in general.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    The point I was trying to make was in reference to GW2. Since we don't have dedicated healers, damage becomes the only reliable way of "hard" increasing of survivability.
    Not really. There's also control and support. ^_^


    Abilities that increase mobility, abilities that limit another's mobility, abilities that force positioning, support skills that improve damage, support skills that prevent or reduce damage, support skills that heal people, support skills that remove conditions from people, support skills that rez people from the downed state...
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

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  16. #156
    People are forgetting that you don't have access to every ability with just one weapon. There are plenty of reasons to get into melee, because melee weapons may offer fields to set up combos, or provide conditions that are much needed. A lot of the game seems to be how well you can juggle between weapon sets and bob and weave in and out of melee range.
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  17. #157
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Why'd you necro this week-old thread?! *cries*
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

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