Is it even possible...

[RoninaThorstone]

Except with 1.7mill subscribers and growing (yes growing), I wouldn't consider this failure at all. I don't understand why people assumed that you needed 10mill subs just to be 'successful'.

Actually I never said its a failure or "isnt successful".

You are the one doing the assuming here.

[Forsedar]

Actually I never said its a failure or "isnt successful".

You are the one doing the assuming here.

I never claimed you were saying it was failing. I was merely putting forth my opinion. You are the one doing the assuming, actually.

[RoninaThorstone]

I never claimed you were saying it was failing. I was merely putting forth my opinion. You are the one doing the assuming, actually.

Actually i misread. Thats different from assuming.

So good job assuming that I was assuming when I merely misread.

[Forsedar]

Actually i misread. Thats different from assuming.

So good job assuming that I was assuming when I merely misread.

Okay either you're just messing around or you're coming here for arguments haha. Since when did YOU misreading lead to anything being MY fault? Please get back on topic lol.

[Mothhive]

GW2 for example will be using the one server with sharding method. Same with vindictus... And vindictus is like... 2 years old. Its not like this is new technology or something.

Eh? There will be servers in GW2. You can travel between them at will, but you have to select a home server and can only represent that one server in WvWvW, which pits 3 different servers against each other in 2 week long PvP battles.

[RoninaThorstone]

Eh? There will be servers in GW2. You can travel between them at will, but you have to select a home server and can only represent that one server in WvWvW, which pits 3 different servers against each other in 2 week long PvP battles.

We are using different definitions of servers.

I would call what you are referring to as a "shard" in this case its a "home shard".

[Hellfury]

At this point and time for Swtor to switch to a one server set up?

Many mmo and mmoish games have given up on "servers" because of the high vs low pop problem.

GW2 for example will be using the one server with sharding method. Same with vindictus... And vindictus is like... 2 years old. Its not like this is new technology or something.

I mean, how great would it be if there weren't "ghost town" servers?

So my question is... Is it too late for them to fix it? Why did they not look ahead and avoid this pitfall like so many of its competitors are?

Wow is going in that direction, you can do virtualy anything with a buddy from any other server, everything except raid Dragon Soul.

Swtor cant, they lack the inter-server technology and comunication, they cant even do basic char transfers which is pathetic at this point

It is to late at this point, the networking and infrastruture would have to be rebuilt from the ground, they are gona implement server xfers and crossrealm but only god knows when

[Vexies]

Wow is going in that direction, you can do virtualy anything with a buddy from any other server, everything except raid Dragon Soul. Swtor cant, they lack the inter-server technology and comunication, they cant even do basic char transfers which is pathetic at this point It is to late at this point, the networking and infrastruture would have to be rebuilt from the ground, they are gona implement server xfers and crossrealm but only god knows when

It amazes me how fast you have become a expert on their server technology and networking capabilities. You in fact have no idea what they can and cant do. They are putting together server transfers ... and JUST like wow they are taking the time to make sure its done right. IF, and I know its hard for some, IF you remember it didn't happen over night for WoW either. Im sure there is a lot more involved than anyone understands, especially once you add into that mix legacy and all that, that entails. Server transfers AND character transfers are coming but you go on ahead and just assume YOU have a complete understanding of what all is involved lol. To make a blanket statement of cant from ANYONE who does not directly work for them is laughable at best.

[Forsedar]

It amazes me how fast you have become a expert on their server technology and networking capabilities. You in fact have no idea what they can and cant do. They are putting together server transfers ... and JUST like wow they are taking the time to make sure its done right. IF, and I know its hard for some, IF you remember it didn't happen over night for WoW either. Im sure there is a lot more involved than anyone understands, especially once you add into that mix legacy and all that, that entails. Server transfers AND character transfers are coming but you go on ahead and just assume YOU have a complete understanding of what all is involved lol. To make a blanket statement of cant from ANYONE who does not directly work for them is laughable at best.

I'm going to add on this since it basically summed up what I wanted to say.

Remember cross account or even cross CHARACTER achievements? Yeah I don't either That is basically a dumbed down version of the Legacy system and WoW still hasn't managed to do that.

[Lathais]

Wow is going in that direction, you can do virtualy anything with a buddy from any other server, everything except raid Dragon Soul.

Swtor cant, they lack the inter-server technology and comunication, they cant even do basic char transfers which is pathetic at this point

It is to late at this point, the networking and infrastruture would have to be rebuilt from the ground, they are gona implement server xfers and crossrealm but only god knows when

By that reasoning, WoW couldn't have either since they were unable to at launch. BTW, we do know when SWTOR will ahve it to cause they said at PAX almost right after 1.2 they will be doing the Oceanic Transfers, and hat is tjust the first step in their plan to fix server pops.

[Jaronicity]

It amazes me how fast you have become a expert on their server technology and networking capabilities. You in fact have no idea what they can and cant do. They are putting together server transfers ... and JUST like wow they are taking the time to make sure its done right. IF, and I know its hard for some, IF you remember it didn't happen over night for WoW either. Im sure there is a lot more involved than anyone understands, especially once you add into that mix legacy and all that, that entails. Server transfers AND character transfers are coming but you go on ahead and just assume YOU have a complete understanding of what all is involved lol. To make a blanket statement of cant from ANYONE who does not directly work for them is laughable at best.

Ummmm but I Googled what is involved in server transfers of characters and it's so easy, like, anyone can do it! BW is pathetic!!!

/sarcasm

I can't remember if, when I started WoW, there were transfers. Was around patch 1.9 when they were doing the class review things. I will say this, though. If the mergers/transfer/whatever don't come shortly after the Asia-Pacific transfers then there will be heaps more of dead servers after that migration.

[Gigikent]

It amazes me how fast you have become a expert on their server technology and networking capabilities. You in fact have no idea what they can and cant do. They are putting together server transfers ... and JUST like wow they are taking the time to make sure its done right. IF, and I know its hard for some, IF you remember it didn't happen over night for WoW either. Im sure there is a lot more involved than anyone understands, especially once you add into that mix legacy and all that, that entails. Server transfers AND character transfers are coming but you go on ahead and just assume YOU have a complete understanding of what all is involved lol. To make a blanket statement of cant from ANYONE who does not directly work for them is laughable at best.

I'm sorry but no, jut NO. People need to STOP comparing a game launched in 2012 (yea yea, December 2011) with a game launched at the end of 2004. They are 7 (SEVEN) years apart. We are talking about a lot of advancements and developments in those 7 years (and Wow also was a long time in development as well, early 2000). Please, stop comparing these 2 things: in MMO years, PC technology years, they are almost like different decades. This branch of science evolves so fast that you cannot compare things in a 7 year span. What phones did you use 7 years ago. Could you go back and have no wi-fi, touch screens and apps, etc. Most will say they can't, and they are correct. It is what it is, we EVOLVE, we do not stay in the same spot, we are not monkeys anymore.

A new MMO needs to launch prepared, a new MMO needs to learn from his predecessors, launching without server transfers, without a lot of other basic things that a community (talking about the MMO community as one entity) is used to is a big mistake. I loved the game at the beginning, I leveled my character and after 2 months I was sat on an empty server with nothing to do while people left left and right (re-rolled on high pop servers or simply quit). I had to also re-roll or quit: i re-rolled, I am greatly disappointed at the moment, and I am not alone.

The above is pretty much on topic as well, as it is linked to the OP: these reasons, the issues with the population, disappointment etc are also leading to guilds (mine included) doing mainly 8 mans. No point in doing 16 mans at the moment. Getting hard to even do the 8 mans, even on a high pop server, due to lack of content and general boredom. I doubt 1.2 will do much to change that, people will plow through content fast, and you do not have to be that hard-core at all to do that. Population will rise immediately after 1.2 hits and it will drops again in a month or so. This is the way MMO's work at the moment. If you have been playing for enough years, you would know that the near future won't be that great. People hype games too much, jump on one, get bored, jump on the next one, get bored, endless cycle. Nobody (game designers) brings anything revolutionary yet, not even future upcoming names. This kind of MMO play style is here to stay for a while imo and I am not happy about it, it's the way things work, that's all.

[Glorious Leader]

Wow is going in that direction, you can do virtualy anything with a buddy from any other server, everything except raid Dragon Soul.

Swtor cant, they lack the inter-server technology and comunication, they cant even do basic char transfers which is pathetic at this point

It is to late at this point, the networking and infrastruture would have to be rebuilt from the ground, they are gona implement server xfers and crossrealm but only god knows when

Actually they do have the infrastructure to do it as they managed to copy pts characters for guilds that applied. The key is programming a user interface to automate that process smoothly and effeciently. I'm not sure why that's pathetic as far as I know very few games ship with that as a feature.

---------- Post added 2012-04-09 at 10:48 AM ----------


---------- Post added 2012-04-09 at 10:49 AM ----------

I'm sorry but no, jut NO. People need to STOP comparing a game launched in 2012 (yea yea, December 2011) with a game launched at the end of 2004. They are 7 (SEVEN) years apart. We are talking about a lot of advancements and developments in those 7 years (and Wow also was a long time in development as well, early 2000). Please, stop comparing these 2 things: in MMO years, PC technology years, they are almost like different decades. This branch of science evolves so fast that you cannot compare things in a 7 year span. What phones did you use 7 years ago. Could you go back and have no wi-fi, touch screens and apps, etc. Most will say they can't, and they are correct. It is what it is, we EVOLVE, we do not stay in the same spot, we are not monkeys anymore.

A new MMO needs to launch prepared, a new MMO needs to learn from his predecessors, launching without server transfers, without a lot of other basic things that a community (talking about the MMO community as one entity) is used to is a big mistake. I loved the game at the beginning, I leveled my character and after 2 months I was sat on an empty server with nothing to do while people left left and right (re-rolled on high pop servers or simply quit). I had to also re-roll or quit: i re-rolled, I am greatly disappointed at the moment, and I am not alone.

Except as far as I'm aware few if any mmo's ship with server transfer as a feature of the game. While hardware has advanced immensely, software programming has not really advanced all that much.

[Gigikent]

Except as far as I'm aware few if any mmo's ship with server transfer as a feature of the game. While hardware has advanced immensely, software programming has not really advanced all that much.

In my book, this means they are not launching prepared. This means they launch their games at the pressure of investors, they launch unfinished games and expect to bring in the cash overnight. Not a good mentality for the consumers, but it works for the big companies. We have been playing a payed beta so far with SwTOR, not admitting that is silly. Maybe having one single server would have been better. The game is so instanced anyway that it probably could have been done. They should have done things differently. The game will do well imo and I hope it does as I am still playing it, but I will not give it praise when and where it does not deserve.

[Glorious Leader]

In my book, this means they are not launching prepared. This means they launch their games at the pressure of investors, they launch unfinished games and expect to bring in the cash overnight. Not a good mentality for the consumers, but it works for the big companies. We have been playing a payed beta so far with SwTOR, not admitting that is silly. Maybe having one single server would have been better. The game is so instanced anyway that it probably could have been done. They should have done things differently. The game will do well imo and I hope it does as I am still playing it, but will not give it praise when and where it does not deserve.

So then every mmo is rushed? Again few if any games ship with that as a feature it usually comes out at some point after the release. I don't understand why swtor is singled out for this. In fact I don't understand why SWTOR is singled out for a ton of crap that other games get away with. It makes very little sense.

[Redblade]

I'm sorry but no, jut NO. People need to STOP comparing a game launched in 2012 (yea yea, December 2011) with a game launched at the end of 2004. They are 7 (SEVEN) years apart. We are talking about a lot of advancements and developments in those 7 years (and Wow also was a long time in development as well, early 2000). Please, stop comparing these 2 things: in MMO years, PC technology years, they are almost like different decades. This branch of science evolves so fast that you cannot compare things in a 7 year span. What phones did you use 7 years ago. Could you go back and have no wi-fi, touch screens and apps, etc. Most will say they can't, and they are correct. It is what it is, we EVOLVE, we do not stay in the same spot, we are not monkeys anymore.

Why where people not up in arms when WoW didn't have AOE looting with cata launch, or dynamic events, or server mergers, or just mass free transfers to sort low population realms, criticism like that seem to only go one way, not to mention that the guy only said that things didn't come to WoW over night, not that it wasn't there at launch of WoW. Besides, what you bring up in the first place is all the cross realm stuff WoW has, you do realize that those features come mainly from their unwillingness to merge servers nor allow free transfers right? Not to mention the massive amounts of extra developer time the issues these features have brought to the game is soaking up.

And no matter what you say, you really have no idea how their server technology works or how easy nor hard it would be to make cross realm features, perhaps the could do cross realm right now but choose not to in favor for something else, they have already stated that they don't think cross realm LFG is something they want for the game at this time, so that leaves transfers which they are working on and supposedly the legacy is what holds it back, other than that all I can see that is not debated that the game needs and should have had at launch is customizable UI. Macros, LFD, addons is far from some standard that everyone agrees to, it's some of the most debated features of MMOs today.

[Gigikent]

So then every mmo is rushed? Again few if any games ship with that as a feature it usually comes out at some point after the release. I don't understand why swtor is singled out for this. In fact I don't understand why SWTOR is singled out for a ton of crap that other games get away with. It makes very little sense.

I do not single out SWTOR at all, it is simply the game I currently play and we are in it's forum here. As far as I know, the rest of active MMO have these same issues. Nothing ofc is perfect and I do not expect that. But these games are being rushed, that is my opionion. They cost a lot to develop, and they launch unfinished and unprepared. Maybe a bit more balance could be found between what you launch with and what people expect. Maybe someone will understand this at some point.

[Glorious Leader]

I do not single out SWTOR at all, it is simply the game I currently play and we are in it's forum here. As far as I know, the rest of active MMO have these same issues. Nothing ofc is perfect and I do not expect that. But these games are being rushed, that is my opionion. They cost a lot to develop, and they launch unfinished and unprepared. Maybe a bit more balance could be found between what you launch with and what people expect. Maybe someone will understand this at some point.

I understand it completely. The truth is the release date of a game is often more determined by timing than anything else. If you accept the principle that mmos are never finished and are always works in progress, then the matter becomes the rate of progress. Schubert or Ohlen I can't remember which one, is on record as saying that the turn over time between 1.2 and 1.3 will be ALOT less than 1.1 and 1.2. Content and features will be coming out alot faster. That I think is the key. Missing features suck at launch no one will defend that, especially the UI customization. At the same time however few people will remember that swtor didn't have UI customization at launch a year from now. If the rate of progress is fast enough then you can turn around from a launch that was missing one or two key things and have a great game in a relatively short amount of time. Effectively when Ohlen says "balls to the walls 2012" he means exactly that. That's one of the big reasons I'm excited about 1.2. When it comes out I don't expect it will take to long before we hear about 1.3.

[Deleted]

games with one server and a variety of channels you can join is nothing to do with technology. the games which generally have very few servers but use channels instead are not massive scale MMOs and usually have a lot less players. take WoW for example, can you imagine the whole of EU logging into the game onto channel 1? it'd be fucking stupid.

separate servers are fine, they just need to manage it properly and merge or transfer the player base.

and regarding all of this nonsense over release dates... i'd rather a game be released 90% complete (as long as it's playable) so that the company can recover some development costs and then pump some of this money back into improving and creating new content. holding out the release date just to add something so trivial could have a negative impact on development and actually make the game worse off. take server transfers for example, they're not needed at launch but they would take a considerably long time to get right. it's not like WoW where you just take your character and inventory, you have the storyline, legacy and all that jazz that needs to be done properly or you'd complain about that as well.

not saying the game is perfect, it's a few major steps from that, but the bitching and complaints about this game is unreal, especially when a lot of it is actually quite stupid.

[Redblade]

Just a note on transfers, if it's as easy as some claim how come you lose some quest and achievement progression in WoW when transfering/faction changing? Alway was curious why people didn't complain about that after paying for it.