Thread: 3 min vanish

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  1. #201
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    Nerfs ARE needed. Don't defend rogues current general pvp state.

  2. #202
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    Whenever you are talking about 1 class getting nerfed to the ground, remember that you maybe wont need vanish every 2 minutes now, since maybe mages only have 2 roots, each on a 25 CD and sharing DR, and it goes on like that.

    You won't know how stuff is scaling, but it looks like they are giving every class less control and more damage, so probably doing the same to rogues.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Nerfs ARE needed. Don't defend rogues current general pvp state.
    nerfs weren't needed prior to 4.3 so why are they needed now...the only reason the general state of rogues is as such is because of scaling and pve gear, all they needed to do was tone down our damage/scaling and perhaps remove the second smoke bomb.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by busigt View Post
    Ooh really so if all the top teams were composed of only mages then they would have been totaly balanced?
    Using a sample size of 10 is nowhere near a good indication of anything useful. It also happens that rogues are the legendary class this season so of course they're gonna be pretty highly represented just like warriors and dks were back in Wrath with Shadowmourne.

    You also have to realize that a lot of skilled players just happen to play rogues because they have a fairly high skill cap that rewards good play. They are great at peeling, target swaps, and burst if executed correctly. In my opinion, most classes should be similar in that they have many options when approaching a situation as opposed to the one dimensional warrior-esque play where you just tunnel until your teammate is ready to swap and you charge burst someone down.

    As it stands now in beta, rogues have been gutted in pvp. This is an irrefutable fact. Instead of getting cool new talents, we're forced to choose between stuff we've already had. The choice between SS and prep is huge. The problem is also even more evident due to the fact that a lot of other classes are horribly broken op. Just go duel any frost mage and get pom ringed into a frost bomb into deep or a lock that just trolls you with stupid damage or a holy pally that pops wings and shocks you to death.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 07:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zykaz View Post
    Whenever you are talking about 1 class getting nerfed to the ground, remember that you maybe wont need vanish every 2 minutes now, since maybe mages only have 2 roots, each on a 25 CD and sharing DR, and it goes on like that.

    You won't know how stuff is scaling, but it looks like they are giving every class less control and more damage, so probably doing the same to rogues.
    Except we don't have more damage due to the removal of the crit increases on backstab and ambush. We also lose the energy regen from recup which removes our passive healing unless we plan on keeping up recup in addition to snd.

  5. #205
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    Rogues have always represented a huge part of the high rated arena teams and when rbgs were introduced they were practically mandatory and this hasnt changed. If a class that has been very strong for a extremely long time gets som nerfs that makes them drop to the lower end of the charts I don't mind. I mean Ret in WOTLK was very strong and lock at them now, they are on the lower part of the pve and the same goes for pvp.
    Last edited by mmoc025d555f5c; 2012-04-28 at 09:11 PM.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by busigt View Post
    Rogues have always represented a huge part of the high rated arena teams and when rbgs were introduced they were practically mandatory and this hasnt changed. If a class that has been very strong for a extremely long time gets som nerfs that makes them drop to the lower end of the charts I don't mind. I mean Ret in WOTLK was very strong and lock at them now, they are on the lower part of the pve and the same goes for pvp.
    Rogues before 4.3 legendaries were the least played class overall, one of the few redeeming features of the class is that we had one really good and viable pvp spec. Now that spec has been gutted what do you think will happen to Rogue representation? Trust me when it falls to sub 3% you will see wholesale buffs to Rogues and we will end up even stronger than we are now. Those HURR DURR ROGUES DESERV NERFZ types should take a long term view and realise that gutting us in pvp now will only have worse ramifications down the line.

  7. #207
    Im really hoping that they add some option to reduce the cooldown for Vanish, I mean I can still beat hunters 1v1 but its really difficult if they can count past 10

  8. #208
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    I started playing rogue from this season as an alt. And I must say I m a bit shocked how many ppl are suprised about incoming nerfs .

    Sorry but any class should be like rogues are at this moment. You can't have very high dmg while keeping kidney shoot on very short cd.
    And about killing rogues it's so harder to kill rogue than any other class.

    Even without vanishing rogue can tank more than dk or warrior.

  9. #209
    To those saying "good rogues will adapt" ... yes they will. However, there will always be higher tier classes and comps.. for example warrior right now, yes good warriors adapted, but there are just better picks.

    My prediction: Rogues will be slightly bad then get buffed one patch into MOP (couple months) and be ok. But there will be new reigning OP classes or "S" tier classes anyway so w/e

  10. #210
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    I started playing rogue from this season as an alt. And I must say I m a bit shocked how many ppl are suprised about incoming nerfs .
    Sorry but you don't get to comment on the rogue class as a fotm reroller

  11. #211
    Immortal Evolixe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    nerfs weren't needed prior to 4.3 so why are they needed now...the only reason the general state of rogues is as such is because of scaling and pve gear, all they needed to do was tone down our damage/scaling and perhaps remove the second smoke bomb.
    Tuning scaling = nerf?

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    Sorry but you don't get to comment on the rogue class as a fotm reroller
    Why wouldn't I ? Rogues are stupid and I can say it by playing rogue. Very high dmg with 25 seconds stun is kinda stupid. You think only ppl who plays rogues over 2 years can comment.

    Rogue play style is completly stupid now. In wotkl you had cloack of shadow as defensive abbility, now every rogue use it offensive because they are very hard to kill. Hemo spec (with ressi around 50% dmg reduction) 8k recup tick per 3 seconds is ONE OF THE EASIEST to play there is nothing skilled about rogue too high dmg with too high defensive cds. Shadow dance 1 minute cd.

    I would understand your post if I would defend rogues...

    In wotkl rogue was easy target to kill with high dmg and a medicore control.

    In cata rogue is one of the worst target to kill, very high dmg, and high control (locking one target for ever specially casters 6 sec kidney 4.5 garrote)

  13. #213
    The Patient Thalais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    Rogues before 4.3 legendaries were the least played class overall, one of the few redeeming features of the class is that we had one really good and viable pvp spec. Now that spec has been gutted what do you think will happen to Rogue representation? Trust me when it falls to sub 3% you will see wholesale buffs to Rogues and we will end up even stronger than we are now. Those HURR DURR ROGUES DESERV NERFZ types should take a long term view and realise that gutting us in pvp now will only have worse ramifications down the line.
    I will give you 1 super reason why your way of thinking is incorrect.
    Enhancement Shamans.
    In vanilla or classic WoW, This spec with a legendary mace from Rag was so powerful that no one could survive the first attack. They were putting out 6-8k damage from a WF crit that Enhancement Shamans couldn't be justified as how the way PvP should be. Over the next 2 expansions; BC & WotLK, Enhancement only continued to die off. Only in Arena with Petcleave, was this method even possible to be used. Now with BL/Hero out of Arena, there are less than 5% of the top 1000 Arena teams with Enhancement. Why? Because they have nothing to bring, only with BL/Hero were they able to kill people and that is gone.

    When your class represents the top 90% of all PvP, you will be nerfed, You will be destroyed by the development team, You will be reduced to the sad state of what is now Enhancement Shamans.
    Suck it up and L2P.
    You should not play a class for them being OP, you should play the class that you have fun with. This is why we still have Enhancement Players because we don't care about being OP, we care about having fun.

  14. #214
    I am Murloc! Grym's Avatar
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    If you hate being nerfed that much, come play Elemental Shaman.

    We get buff pretty much EVERY patch :P

  15. #215
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    Cloak of Shadows (CoS) is the only ability in the game that is more OP than anything else.

    As Zelis states, this was suppose to be a defensive CD, but no rogue uses it as that. They use it as an offensive CD.

    IMO, CoS needs to be removed from the game or changed.

    Possible changes:
    CoS no longer gives you immunity spells but instead prevents any debuffs or DoT effects for 5 seconds. Now you still can use CoS to remove those DoTs or debuffs so you can vanish and set up an opener again, but you cant just run around with CoS glyph allowing Physical Damage reduction and immunity to an entire class function such as spell damage. (DK's are different, they can still be seen while CoS allows Vanish which makes rogues more powerful than DK's)

    CoS no longer is an ability that lasts, but instead makes your next vanish in the next 5 seconds remove all DoT effects, allowing you to not break stealth because of Damage over Time (DoT) & would include debuffs being put on you like slower movement.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-29 at 11:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    If you hate being nerfed that much, come play Elemental Shaman.

    We get buff pretty much EVERY patch :P
    They get buffed because they sit at the bottom all expansion long that we have to cry every time for buffs. WotLK: Enhancement cried for buffs, Cataclysm: Elemental cried for buffs, MoP (guess): Restoration will cry for buffs. Every expansion, 1-2 specs for the Shaman class need to cry to be buffed because we don't scale as the game progresses.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-29 at 11:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    If you hate being nerfed that much, come play Elemental Shaman.

    We get buff pretty much EVERY patch :P
    They get buffed because they sit at the bottom all expansion long that we have to cry every time for buffs. WotLK: Enhancement cried for buffs, Cataclysm: Elemental cried for buffs, MoP (guess): Restoration will cry for buffs. Every expansion, 1-2 specs for the Shaman class need to cry to be buffed because we don't scale as the game progresses.

  16. #216
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalais View Post
    I will give you 1 super reason why your way of thinking is incorrect.
    Enhancement Shamans.
    In vanilla or classic WoW, This spec with a legendary mace from Rag was so powerful that no one could survive the first attack. They were putting out 6-8k damage from a WF crit that Enhancement Shamans couldn't be justified as how the way PvP should be. Over the next 2 expansions; BC & WotLK, Enhancement only continued to die off. Only in Arena with Petcleave, was this method even possible to be used. Now with BL/Hero out of Arena, there are less than 5% of the top 1000 Arena teams with Enhancement. Why? Because they have nothing to bring, only with BL/Hero were they able to kill people and that is gone.

    When your class represents the top 90% of all PvP, you will be nerfed, You will be destroyed by the development team, You will be reduced to the sad state of what is now Enhancement Shamans.
    Suck it up and L2P.
    You should not play a class for them being OP, you should play the class that you have fun with. This is why we still have Enhancement Players because we don't care about being OP, we care about having fun.
    because hitting with wet noodles and not being able to kill something is fun...

  17. #217
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    As Zelis states, this was suppose to be a defensive CD, but no rogue uses it as that. They use it as an offensive CD.
    Stop spouting such rubbish from a position of clear ignorance please, watch any Rogue in arena above 2.2k and you will see that they very rarely blow cloak offensively because it leaves them open to swaps. We already had the shared cd between cloak and combat readiness which was a huge nerf to survivability. Cloak is fine, stop whining about nerfs that aren't needed.

    Tuning scaling = nerf?
    Yes but it would be a legitimate nerf and if done correctly it should only affect us towards the end of expansions when gear inflation means our damage gets over the top, but all these other nerfs to core abilities are completely overboard.

    Why wouldn't I ? Rogues are stupid and I can say it by playing rogue. Very high dmg with 25 seconds stun is kinda stupid. You think only ppl who plays rogues over 2 years can comment.
    If you actually made a balanced argument instead of being an ignoramus just listing class abilities as if that were a way to justify nerfs then it wouldn't be as bad, but you are obviously a clueless fotm reroll and therefore don't get to speak about the state of rogues, sorry.

    In vanilla or classic WoW, This spec with a legendary mace from Rag was so powerful that no one could survive the first attack. They were putting out 6-8k damage from a WF crit that Enhancement Shamans couldn't be justified as how the way PvP should be. Over the next 2 expansions; BC & WotLK, Enhancement only continued to die off. Only in Arena with Petcleave, was this method even possible to be used. Now with BL/Hero out of Arena, there are less than 5% of the top 1000 Arena teams with Enhancement. Why? Because they have nothing to bring, only with BL/Hero were they able to kill people and that is gone.
    Pointless and stupid analogy, why are you even in these forums? Rogues are no where near that overpowered, all we need is a reduction in damage and the removal of second smoke bomb and that would be fine, just like it was for the entirety of cataclysm until the free legendary patch arrived.
    Last edited by mmocd83fccc0c7; 2012-04-29 at 09:43 PM.

  18. #218
    the nerfs are indeed justified, and I totally expected to see them in the beta.. on live rogues can easily solo any other class and still come out with 100% hp if played right..

    rogues are completely ridiculous on live.. don't even say they're a LITTLE OP, you KNOW if a rogue jumps you, you're dead

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whatcurb View Post
    the nerfs are indeed justified, and I totally expected to see them in the beta.. on live rogues can easily solo any other class and still come out with 100% hp if played right..

    rogues are completely ridiculous on live.. don't even say they're a LITTLE OP, you KNOW if a rogue jumps you, you're dead
    only if you are terrible

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    only if you are terrible
    that's a negative there good sir, 2x glad here, and can say with confidence that rogues are extremely OP if played well, if you disagree, well you probably play a rogue..

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