100 US Marines vs 5000 Alliance soldiers

[Sorrior]

Last time I checked a .50 Cal beats a longsword in range, lethality and in certain circumstances, weight.

Umm yeah sure but again these aren;t just longsword wielders and even their armor is tougher than a tanks. Well that is if you reason out that steel titanium is one of our hardest substances and they have shit that it seems makes diamonds look weak and soft.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 12:06 AM ----------

I'm fairly certain that OP is referring World of Warcraft, and not Warcraft 1, 2, or 3. This is after all a World of Warcraft forum, and the Alliance did not even exist in the games you listed. Regardless the criteria pretty much states that this is standard alliance foot soldiers. At no point in time does it say Druids, Stone Giants or Frost Wyrms which admittedly would change every thing. Saying that all of those units are common Alliance foot soldiers, then how come I've never once encountered this in Azeroth while questing on my Horde toon?

Yes, I have ran into Night Elf, and Human patrols but I have never once seen anything more than the typical than the dime-a-dozen foot soldiers. Take Baradin Hold's Alliance outpost for example. Find a single one of these units that you guys are trying to pull into your arsenal there.

And for the record, the radio communication alone would give the Marines a massive advantage. Everyone knows what a set back having to ride around on horse back trying to command your troops was.

---------- Post added 2012-04-27 at 04:47 AM ----------



Just an M240B alone with a Telescopic sight on it would be reaching out to ranges close to a kilometer away. I don't care what armor you're wearing, you're going to get mowed down with a quickness once that 7.62 starts yapping!

Yeah the alliance did. As far back as WC2 there has been an alliance maybe even one.


As for things like radios umm TELEPATHY/portals. And ok then you want large scale thing that are seen IN game AND are used in a war? How about the fucking ancients. Mobile factories that can fight back. How bout them apples?

And yeah maybe he was HOWEVER WoW does NOT not ONCE truly display the average fighting force..well except MAYBE wrathgate and even then.

And you haven;t run into them because oh i dunno WE'RE NOT INA WARZONE. And i mean a REAL warzone not a contested area. Also image having to fight those things regularly. It's called balance.

And again we're talking guys wearing armor that makes out best stuff even for the next hundred+ years look weak.

I have basically been sticking to his own rules by my knowledge of alliance war tactics and capabilities throughout it's entire existence. To think they would do otherwise is stupid.

[Deleted]

100 vs 5000?

Aint that, like, 1 vs 50?

I'd think the alliance would win, because of their numbers.

[Sorrior]

Infernals, demonic pets, Water elementals, etc.
Impervious to bullets. GG.

Edit: Or just let a boomkin rain some stars

And this guy kinda proves my point. IF the alliance of today were to employ it's full force inculding waht we now term classes it would be even MORE broken than what i've already named seeing as they never allowed dark magic pre wow. And even then there is a reason the warlock trainers hide out under a bar or in the back alleys.

[Magzilla]

Marines are fucked as soon as their magazines empty.

[Jersovic]

Umm yeah sure but again these aren;t just longsword wielders and even their armor is tougher than a tanks. Well that is if you reason out that steel titanium is one of our hardest substances and they have shit that it seems makes diamonds look weak and soft.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 12:06 AM ----------




Yeah the alliance did. As far back as WC2 there has been an alliance maybe even one.


As for things like radios umm TELEPATHY/portals. And ok then you want large scale thing that are seen IN game AND are used in a war? How about the fucking ancients. Mobile factories that can fight back. How bout them apples?

And yeah maybe he was HOWEVER WoW does NOT not ONCE truly display the average fighting force..well except MAYBE wrathgate and even then.

And you haven;t run into them because oh i dunno WE'RE NOT INA WARZONE. And i mean a REAL warzone not a contested area. Also image having to fight those things regularly. It's called balance.

And again we're talking guys wearing armor that makes out best stuff even for the next hundred+ years look weak.

I have basically been sticking to his own rules by my knowledge of alliance war tactics and capabilities throughout it's entire existence. To think they would do otherwise is stupid.

I have never seen telepathy or portals used by any Alliance minions in World of Warcraft. In fact, this is why many quests have you play the role of a courier due to lack of instant communication. This is also not considered "large scale" for the Marines. Every Marine has some form of Radio communication with one another.

I also have never seen "Ancients" as part of the regular Alliance Infantry. Theramore, Honor Hold, and The Alliance Outpost in Baradin hold are all "regular infantry," which is what the original criteria was.

Alliance Infantry:

Warrior
Paladin
Hunter
Mage

According to WoWhead these are the only Alliance Infantry. When I search for an Alliance "Infantry" Chimaera, or Stone Giant, nothing pops up. This is probably due to the word "Infantry." For instance, if you are the in the American Military as a Tank driver, Helicopter pilot, or an Artilleryman, you are NOT part of the Infantry. This is some what similar to why a lot of the units that you guys are listing cannot be built with the Barracks in Warcraft 1-3.


Stop adding all of these units to the scenario that are not allowed. If the OP had said "nothing changes" then I would have lol'd too at even 5,000 marines having a chance against 5,000 Chimaeras, Stone Giants, and Demigod Magic users but the rules clearly state otherwise. This would be the equivalent of me allowing the Marines to sit on their battle ships while their artillery cannons, and bombers bombarded the Alliance into oblivion. Follow the rules if you expect me to do the same.

I also doubt that the regular Infantrymen in WoW have this super armor that you describe considering that I could beat an Alliance patrol of 10 soldiers to death using a rusty dagger if I chose to.

[Deleted]

41 yards range. Any serviceman in any branch can easily hit targets at 100 yards in clear terrain. Mortars would shred wow army before they got into range.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 01:47 PM ----------

Marines are fucked as soon as their magazines empty.

Takes 3 secs tops to switch a mag. On my last tour in Afghanistan I carried 17 extras at all times. Also if a company would set up a firepoint someone would carry a few boxes of extra ammunition.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 01:48 PM ----------

Marines are fucked as soon as their magazines empty.

Takes 3 secs tops to switch a mag. On my last tour in Afghanistan I carried 17 extras at all times. Also if a company would set up a firepoint someone would carry a few boxes of extra ammunition.

[Sorrior]

I have never seen telepathy or portals used by any Alliance minions in World of Warcraft. In fact, this is why many quests have you play the role of a courier due to lack of instant communication. This is also not considered "large scale" for the Marines. Every Marine has some form of Radio communication with one another.

I also have never seen "Ancients" as part of the regular Alliance Infantry. Theramore, Honor Hold, and The Alliance Outpost in Baradin hold are all "regular infantry," which is what the original criteria was.

Alliance Infantry:

Warrior
Paladin
Hunter
Mage

According to WoWhead these are the only Alliance Infantry. When I search for an Alliance "Infantry" Chimaera, or Stone Giant, nothing pops up. This is probably due to the word "Infantry." For instance, if you are the in the American Military as a Tank driver, Helicopter pilot, or an Artilleryman, you are NOT part of the Infantry. This is some what similar to why a lot of the units that you guys are listing cannot be built with the Barracks in Warcraft 1-3.


Stop adding all of these units to the scenario that are not allowed. If the OP had said "nothing changes" then I would have lol'd too at even 5,000 marines having a chance against 5,000 Chimaeras, Stone Giants, and Demigod Magic users but the rules clearly state otherwise. This would be the equivalent of me allowing the Marines to sit on their battle ships while their artillery cannons, and bombers bombarded the Alliance into oblivion. Follow the rules if you expect me to do the same.

I also doubt that the regular Infantrymen in WoW have this super armor that you describe considering that I could beat an Alliance patrol of 10 soldiers to death using a rusty dagger if I chose to.

Yeah maybe yet EVERYTHING i have named has been seen in an average lliance army. Also WoW head focuses on WOW or post war stuff. Oh and Ancients can be seen outside darn. And even if it WERE limited to what you'd name no ESPECIALLY those are ALL things i was intentionally leaving out since they are related to hero units(well paladins and mages aside). Point being they just increase the odds for the alliance. Oh and GG using the class system when we KNOW that the alliance army uses FAR more things than just that. But okay lets just go infantry units and remove fairly basic bits of their army.

Still leaves us with

Archers, Huntresses, and Glaive Throwers

Footmen,Riflemen and Knights

Archers

and that's it minus Warcraft one. And while MUCH harder still they have metals and things we don;t

Now as for portals. Umm yeah sure they don;t use those in warzones...OH WAIT pretty sure i've seen them in EVERY warzone. Pandaria check, Northren check, Outland Check and so on. Yep portals basic. As for telepathy pretty sure it's mentioned in some books but even if not now that i think of it they have radios as well THX to the gnomes.

The problem i see here is you're comparing their fantasy society to our own society in medieval times. While through a combination of magic and technology they are actually FAR more advanced than us.

Oh and if you include priest, mages and pallies as foot troops then umm yeah hello broken town.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 02:11 PM ----------

41 yards range. Any serviceman in any branch can easily hit targets at 100 yards in clear terrain. Mortars would shred wow army before they got into range.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 01:47 PM ----------



Takes 3 secs tops to switch a mag. On my last tour in Afghanistan I carried 17 extras at all times. Also if a company would set up a firepoint someone would carry a few boxes of extra ammunition.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 01:48 PM ----------



Takes 3 secs tops to switch a mag. On my last tour in Afghanistan I carried 17 extras at all times. Also if a company would set up a firepoint someone would carry a few boxes of extra ammunition.

Can your quick swap guns beat a tank? I ask because if even their mid tier metal is about 4-5 metals at LEAST harder than steel(one of our harder substances) than it is quite likely that they have armor tougher than a tanks seeing as they have stuff that makes even a steel titanium combo look weak.

Oh and 41yards is a game mechanic nothing more. A longbow IRL can go over 200 yards and pierce plate mail clean through. So umm yeah try again.

[Jersovic]

Yeah maybe yet EVERYTHING i have named has been seen in an average lliance army. Also WoW head focuses on WOW or post war stuff. Oh and Ancients can be seen outside darn. And even if it WERE limited to what you'd name no ESPECIALLY those are ALL things i was intentionally leaving out since they are related to hero units(well paladins and mages aside). Point being they just increase the odds for the alliance. Oh and GG using the class system when we KNOW that the alliance army uses FAR more things than just that. But okay lets just go infantry units and remove fairly basic bits of their army.

Still leaves us with

Archers, Huntresses, and Glaive Throwers

Footmen,Riflemen and Knights

Archers

and that's it minus Warcraft one. And while MUCH harder still they have metals and things we don;t

Now as for portals. Umm yeah sure they don;t use those in warzones...OH WAIT pretty sure i've seen them in EVERY warzone. Pandaria check, Northren check, Outland Check and so on. Yep portals basic. As for telepathy pretty sure it's mentioned in some books but even if not now that i think of it they have radios as well THX to the gnomes.

The problem i see here is you're comparing their fantasy society to our own society in medieval times. While through a combination of magic and technology they are actually FAR more advanced than us.

Oh and if you include priest, mages and pallies as foot troops then umm yeah hello broken town.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 02:11 PM ----------



Can your quick swap guns beat a tank? I ask because if even their mid tier metal is about 4-5 metals at LEAST harder than steel(one of our harder substances) than it is quite likely that they have armor tougher than a tanks seeing as they have stuff that makes even a steel titanium combo look weak.

Oh and 41yards is a game mechanic nothing more. A longbow IRL can go over 200 yards and pierce plate mail clean through. So umm yeah try again.

For the last time, why are you bringing hero units up when the original criteria says "NO OMNIPOTENT DEMIGODS."

If you consider a War Glaive to be "regular Infantry," then I guess these all count as regular infantry for the US Military:

M1126 Infantry Carrier Vehicle:



M2 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle:



HMMWV Mobile Infantry:



MRAP Mobile Infantry:



Infantry Mortar team:



These are ALL part of the United States Military's REGULAR Infantry. I've ridden in every single one of those vehicles as regular Infantry. We even have a mortar section in my platoon.

[Queen of Hamsters]

...seriously?

Of course the Alliance would win over the US Marines. The US marines wouldn't have time to mow 5000 Alliance soldiers down, not to mention that those soldiers have pretty good armor on them.

[Trigg]

No it's not cities like Dal have been seen in lore to have energy barriers seeing as pallies can make then hello immunity.

---------- Post added 2012-04-23 at 11:02 PM ----------





Umm yeah say hello to shapeshifters pulling up cyclones, an army of charging bears and lets not forget phasing mini dragons and acid spewing chinera and that's just from the NE army army.

Your arguement is completely invalid. They are all limited to 40 yard range. Oh and mini dragons and chimera's aren't allowed, they aren't soldiers. (hell if we're being technical, the only thing that would class as alliance soldiers would be warriors and paladins sthey're even more screwed).

OP didn't state what world they'd be fighting in, what physics they'd be using, so the basic conclusion would be to go with 5000 alliance soldiers governed by their laws of physics and their rules against 100 marines governed by theirs.

Also, there is no way to possibly know if an alliance soldier's armour is better than a battle tank. I'm pretty sure if you're ignoring game rules or the laws of the world the alliance live in, they you can bloody well forget shrugging off gunfire and rocket blasts. One sniper round to the chest will take out a knight reglardless of what armour he has on. In a marines hands, it won't even hit armour, it'll sail right through the knight's visor.

How about a marine using a smaw? pretty sure you're going to see body bits flying around the alliance force all over the place.

Also, you have to remember that if this were a real warzone, the marines know what they're up against, or at least apart from any magic attacks. They know that if they se archers, they'll need protection from above. They know that if they see heavily armored juggernaughts they need to take them down asap. On the other hand, the alliance army, they have no idea what they're coming up against. they've never seen a marine in their lives. they don't know what an assault rifle is let alone any of the more heavier equipment. They'll attack the marines in the usual way i.e. front, while flanking and using any terrain to their advantage. The marines will anticiapte this and plan accordingly.

Unfortunately, there is no specified battle zone so from here on, no one can make any predictions. If its a barren desert, the marines are screwed, no cover, no choke points, no where to retreat to. If it's a mountain side, the marines won't even need to try. the Alliance will get slaughtered before they get even half way up, either by sniper fire, mortors or claymores/c4.

[Deleted]

Can your quick swap guns beat a tank? I ask because if even their mid tier metal is about 4-5 metals at LEAST harder than steel(one of our harder substances) than it is quite likely that they have armor tougher than a tanks seeing as they have stuff that makes even a steel titanium combo look weak.

Oh and 41yards is a game mechanic nothing more. A longbow IRL can go over 200 yards and pierce plate mail clean through. So umm yeah try again.

I seriously don't understand what you try to say? That their armour is much harder than steel because of ... ? Is it because imperial set is made of thorium? Or any other reason?

[DraconusIX]

Significant ranged advantage would likely occur for the marines. They undoubtedly would destroy any non-casters with ease. The question is on the value of "magic". Can magic snipe people from a mile away? Can magic be any more effective then a RPG or mortar? do marines get light armor or howitzers? if so game over. Either way, marine snipers would target the mages, the rest wouldn't stand a chance. modern day warfare is primarily based on keeping your head down. can a swordsmen or archer do that easily? as for calvary utter waste. there is a reason horses were abandoned in WWI

[Sole-Warrior]

Marines, if you take in account for massive rockets, bunker-busters.
Nukes? Azeroth has a radius of less then 20 miles last time I checked, the largest nuclear weapon ever detonated by the United States was Castle Bravo at 15 Megatons, if such a weapon were detonated on Azeroth could easily cause a mass extinction. Stormwind which really isn't that big could be easily obliterated by a crude nuclear weapon, does not even need to be near the yield of the Hiroshima bomb to wipe Stormwind off the map.

If you give those 100 marines a nuclear weapon yea they can win with no problem.

But even without the nuclear weapon they could probably win.

[naytiry]

Sorrior, you should start going outside and doing some exercise, being 500 kilos heavy is affecting your brain

Please keep things civil

[cplday0331]

Marines win..... with just our damn K-Bars.

/end thread

Oooh---fuckin Rah Devil Dogs

[Sorrior]

For the last time, why are you bringing hero units up when the original criteria says "NO OMNIPOTENT DEMIGODS."

If you consider a War Glaive to be "regular Infantry," then I guess these all count as regular infantry for the US Military:

M1126 Infantry Carrier Vehicle:



M2 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle:



HMMWV Mobile Infantry:



MRAP Mobile Infantry:



Infantry Mortar team:



These are ALL part of the United States Military's REGULAR Infantry. I've ridden in every single one of those vehicles as regular Infantry. We even have a mortar section in my platoon.

i have NOT brought up ANY hero units none zero. Well outside full scale war but those were off scenario anyways.

As for why glaives are infantry. Don't ask me ask blizz why they count as such. But for some reason the war glaives are built by an ancient in charge of infantry. Again counts for some reason. Also not my fault OP said no heavy equipment. Oh and if you're gonna say that only living ground units can be infantry. Well then fine still gives us driids mages priests paladins(not hero units in their original form) and MANY other things as well.

Again i gave my sources deal with the fact that azeroth is not earth and doesn't follow ourrules.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 06:56 PM ----------

Sorrior, you should start going outside and doing some exercise, being 500 kilos heavy is affecting your brain

Please keep things civil

I'm 170@ 5'11" thank you very much. And funny but is i'm sticking to the OP rules using my knowledge of warcrafts history and tactics.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 06:59 PM ----------

I seriously don't understand what you try to say? That their armour is much harder than steel because of ... ? Is it because imperial set is made of thorium? Or any other reason?

Partly. But mostly because steel itself in the RTS is used and is actually just Upgrade one with thorium being the cap at two levels higher. Add in the large number of new metals in lore and account for mandatory upgrades and voila they have some seriously OP metalurgy in azeroth.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 07:02 PM ----------

In my Opinion the 100 Us marines would win with a few reasons,

1. worlds furthest shot was 2.47 km shot twice which is about 2700 yards, Longest cast in wow 50 yards. This is gone But i can bet that shooting a fireball that far either will not make it OR can be easily dodged. and for Blizzard or other AE that is simple they need to see where they are putting the spell and need to have the power to be able to cast and maintain that the further they try to cast it, not many mages in wow could do that.
2. with armor piercing bullets PW:S would not work because the bullets would go threw that and your plate armor (designed to penetrate armor).
3. with the 50. Cal sniper you could take out a group of alliance soldiers in 1 shot. considering you do not even need to Hit your target to kill them with it.
4. And lastly 100 marines will easily have over 50k bullets in reserve just in case they run out of ammo. Not to mention Rocket Launchers and Mines and such.

Again the 40 yard range thing is a game mechanic. A real longbow goes about 200 yards with full piercing power intact. Also assuming as one person said azeroth has a 20 mile radius yet is comparable in scale to earth when compared to our characters then umm yeah one could guess that 50 yards may very well be several hundred.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 07:03 PM ----------

Marines, if you take in account for massive rockets, bunker-busters.
Nukes? Azeroth has a radius of less then 20 miles last time I checked, the largest nuclear weapon ever detonated by the United States was Castle Bravo at 15 Megatons, if such a weapon were detonated on Azeroth could easily cause a mass extinction. Stormwind which really isn't that big could be easily obliterated by a crude nuclear weapon, does not even need to be near the yield of the Hiroshima bomb to wipe Stormwind off the map.

If you give those 100 marines a nuclear weapon yea they can win with no problem.

But even without the nuclear weapon they could probably win.

Now who's breaking the rules? No nukes air drops or heavy armor.

---------- Post added 2012-04-28 at 07:05 PM ----------

Marines win..... with just our damn K-Bars.

/end thread

Oooh---fuckin Rah Devil Dogs

Annd fanboy ahoy.

Also ironicallyi laughed at the weight comment above yet find the whole hoorah thing offensive/angering go figure.

[Gwennie]

They're all killed when Krillin blows up the galaxy in a fight with Caterpie.

[Deleted]

We have no idea how durable azeroth minerals are so let's just throw that one out the window. We can ofc guess that it is 100x more durable and light as a feather but is it really plausible? If wow infantry use thorium as we know it, I would be amazed anyone take a step in it.

[die4moneh]

Made me lol very hard ok let's make it 5000 marines vs 1 alliance,ret paladin bubble's > pop's wing's > Divine Storm's > /hug (Make Love, Not Warcraft) > /dance.

[personn5]

Made me lol very hard ok let's make it 5000 marines vs 1 alliance,ret paladin bubble's > pop's wing's > Divine Storm's > /hug (Make Love, Not Warcraft) > /dance.

because the marines would be clumped together in the range of divine storm, right?