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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    It's not like Blizzard bombards the player base with sexism; this was one instance, but compromise is a foreign concept to some, it's either "No sexism!" or "Down with Blizzard!", and i'm sure Blizzard is facepalming just as much as any other sensible person at the outrage regarding this character.
    true, but if some poor girl had problems at work for example, or even a worst past of sexual violence against her, you could understand why she might be sensitive about it right? she has a right to voice her displeasure, Blizzard obviously deemed her point valid and sided with her. it's not as if they risked controversy by keeping it in, they decided to err on the side of caution which is fine with me.

  2. #262
    It was a poorly written piece of dialogue that should have been redone. It's as simple as that. If you're attempting to make a cool, flirtatious character, you don't want to write him like a twelve year old making his first attempt at picking up girls, which is how he came across. The fact that they didn't remove any of the rest of his flirting is proof that this wasn't about feminism or being prude. (Though it has brought out some seriously misplaced and irrational hatred it seems.) It's about a piece of dialogue that didn't do the job that was intended. If it was really about sexism, his character would have been rewritten. Instead, just a single poorly crafted paragraph was redone.

    If you were reading a book about James Bond, the classic cool dude with a thing for the ladies, and you came upon "Hey, sweetness, you're looking really cute tonight," the removal of that sentence wouldn't be about making Bond less flirty, but about making him not seem lame when doing it.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    it's an interesting discussion at least, it didn't get too out of hand and no mod shut it down. some pretty extreme viewpoints, I can see both sides. from my perspective at least, I can see why a woman who has dealt with sexism might find it a little tiresome and insulting, but there's never going to be a weird asexual hybrid race of humans who are exactly alike; men will always be like Ji Firepaw.
    Some men will be, yeah. But so will some women.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    No he never sad there was no racism, he was simply countering the view that There was no opportunity, if there was no Opportunity whatsoever for blacks in America then these people could not be in the positions they are in.
    he said plenty of stupid, lopsided things. that link was horribly written and horribly one-sided.

  5. #265
    if some poor girl had problems at work for example, or even a worst past of sexual violence against her, you could understand why she might be sensitive about it right? she has a right to voice her displeasure, Blizzard obviously deemed her point valid and sided with her. it's not as if they risked controversy by keeping it in, they decided to err on the side of caution which is fine with me.
    Maturity and realizing that other people's feelings matter has no place here.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by DSRilk View Post
    Maturity and realizing that other people's feelings matter has no place here.
    Maturity is realizing that not the entire world needs to bend because something boo-hoo-horrible has happened to you. Life goes on, nothing changes.

  7. #267
    I'll be honest, I thought it was kinda cute. It's sad it's been changed, but it's not the end of the world... of warcraft.

  8. #268
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    true, but if some poor girl had problems at work for example, or even a worst past of sexual violence against her, you could understand why she might be sensitive about it right? she has a right to voice her displeasure, Blizzard obviously deemed her point valid and sided with her. it's not as if they risked controversy by keeping it in, they decided to err on the side of caution which is fine with me.
    People have suffered grievances and deaths too; loved ones murdered or killed in foreign conflicts, does that mean we should take the war and death out of warcraft?

    Does that mean this situation should be any different?

    I'd posit a resolute 'no'.
    In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956

  9. #269
    Blizzard seems intent on eliminating all possible kinds of personality from their characters recently. Sure that guy was creepy, but guess what - it was part of his personality. Now he's another bland, emotionless, faceless NPC. Eugh.
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  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    That's complete hyperbole and I think you know it. This was exactly my point; that it's an incredibly minor change that shouldn't censor or alter the meaning of the character in any way if the writers know what they're doing.

    There's a difference between compromising artistic vision and tweaking a loose screw that looks a bit off. Blowing it out of proportion on both sides of the argument isn't going to help.
    Hyperbolic exaggeration was my intent, because I think anyone who confounded developers/characters/players is on a slippery slope. It's a very, very short walk from "that line is out of place" to "that character is out of place", because that one line is in-line with the character.

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    People have suffered grievances and deaths too; loved ones murdered or killed in foreign conflicts, does that mean we should take the war and death out of warcraft?

    Does that mean this situation should be any different?

    I'd posit a resolute 'no'.
    People have had families killed by drinking or drunk drivers. People have family members addicted to every form of medication you can think of.

    Do they want "buff food" and alcohol removed from WoW?

    I echo Alenarien's resolute 'no'.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-12 at 12:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arridor View Post
    Blizzard seems intent on eliminating all possible kinds of personality from their characters recently. Sure that guy was creepy, but guess what - it was part of his personality. Now he's another bland, emotionless, faceless NPC. Eugh.
    I honestly loved Ji's progression even in that short zone. He went from being a womanizing brawler (reminds me of Han Solo) to being implied to love Aysa.
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  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    People have suffered grievances and deaths too; loved ones murdered or killed in foreign conflicts, does that mean we should take the war and death out of warcraft?

    Does that mean this situation should be any different?

    I'd posit a resolute 'no'.
    That will be patch 5.1

    "We've decided that all of the violence and killing over the past 7 years is offensive to too many people. So the war between the Horde and Alliance is officially over. The next big raid will be Around the Campfire. Players of both factions will join hands and sing kumbaya."

  13. #273
    Maturity is realizing that not the entire world needs to bend because something boo-hoo-horrible has happened to you. Life goes on, nothing changes.
    Yes, part of maturity is realizing that when you cause someone pain or anxiety, even if you don't understand why, and you gain virtually nothing for doing so, you should opt to stop. I'm sure that, though you may not realize it, some things that you're afraid of or that bother you seem stupid to other people. That doesn't mean that your feelings aren't valid.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    People have suffered grievances and deaths too; loved ones murdered or killed in foreign conflicts, does that mean we should take the war and death out of warcraft?

    Does that mean this situation should be any different?

    I'd posit a resolute 'no'.
    well that's a reasonable point, but of course someone who is genuinely haunted by war would stay away from a game called World of Warcraft, there's no allusion to mild sexism in the game's title. thankfully, Blizzard is a company who listens to their playerbase, and they obviously figured the negatives of that one sentence outweighed the positives. I really don't see what harm there is being sensitive to someone's feelings.

    quick edit - why not keep the line in, and have him later apologise to female players for his earlier attitude? have him learn something, everyone wins.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by DSRilk View Post
    Yes, part of maturity is realizing that when you cause someone pain or anxiety, even if you don't understand why, and you gain virtually nothing for doing so, you should opt to stop. I'm sure that, though you may not realize it, some things that you're afraid of or that bother you seem stupid to other people. That doesn't mean that your feelings aren't valid.
    I'm afraid of spiders, should I petition Blizz to remove them from the game?

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    Blizzard obviously deemed her point valid and sided with her. it's not as if they risked controversy by keeping it in, they decided to err on the side of caution which is fine with me.
    All that's obvious is that this fracas has caused them to remove the line. That doesn't mean they agree with her. That means they have better things to do with their time and resources than argue this point so they simply removed it.



    Were you people also on the bandwagon when it rolled through proclaiming that Blizz was racist due to "Worgen spelled backwards" and "dropping watermelons?"

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    People have had families killed by drinking or drunk drivers. People have family members addicted to every form of medication you can think of.

    Do they want "buff food" and alcohol removed from WoW?

    I echo Alenarien's resolute 'no'.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-12 at 12:50 PM ----------



    I honestly loved Ji's progression even in that short zone. He went from being a womanizing brawler (reminds me of Han Solo) to being implied to love Aysa.
    And lets not forget. Garrosh's own men dropped the equivalent of the atom bomb on a school of kids. And Blizzard has hinted that Garrosh himself is going to order some war crimes things during pandaria's storyline which will lead to both factions turning and taking him out. There's going to be some really disturbing things in Pandaria I predict. And I don't think "You are some kind of gorgeous huh?" will even remotely be as offensive. I think in the end, things are going to get downright nasty. Especially if something happens to Stormwind's prince.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearshield View Post
    That will be patch 5.1

    "We've decided that all of the violence and killing over the past 7 years is offensive to too many people. So the war between the Horde and Alliance is officially over. The next big raid will be Around the Campfire. Players of both factions will join hands and sing kumbaya."
    Don't even joke about that *hugs self and wimpers*

  18. #278
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    It bordered on some mild sexual connotation in what he said. There are sensative people across the world that don't want to feel emasculated by another, and thats exactly what the line entailed.
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  19. #279
    but guess what - it was part of his personality. Now he's another bland, emotionless, faceless NPC. Eugh.
    Yes, the alteration of one line of dialogue out of hundreds eliminated his entire personality.

    Did you know that the first line of the first Sherlock Holmes story started out with Holmes saying, "Sometimes I tire of this world where things are far more evident to me than to everyone else." That line got removed for being too lame, which is why today Sherlock Holmes is known for being a bland, faceless protagonist with no personality.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by thundercles View Post
    All that's obvious is that this fracas has caused them to remove the line. That doesn't mean they agree with her. That means they have better things to do with their time and resources than argue this point so they simply removed it.



    Were you people also on the bandwagon when it rolled through proclaiming that Blizz was racist due to "Worgen spelled backwards" and "dropping watermelons?"
    there's no need to be so confrontational.

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