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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by moogogaipan View Post
    Well if it has no cultural weight, no power, why do you care?
    I think you forgot a long time ago about picking your battles.
    ALL your so called misogny and the rally against it, is laudable.
    GO rage against the slutty armor styles and actually do something with meaning, with a real effect. But I suspect you wouldn't because why try when you know nothing will change.

    It's easier to attack stupid little things with very puffed up sense of idealism.


    I guess I can call you a homophobe cause of a toon named blood fart too. You know cause it's an allusion to making jokes about gays.
    ( see how crazy we can get being on hyper defense?)
    you can't solve a problem with an idea in something which holds no cultural weight, but you can certainly continue to propogate a problematic attitude by doing so. I prefer to pick my battles in the real world thanks, you don't know who I am or what I do. I come here for leisure, I'm arguing here for lesure. I don't need to pick my battles thank, I will continue to battle on indiscriminantly.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Sendai View Post
    False.

    I hate neo-feminism, but I totally respect women. Exactly the same as I respect men and both are giving a fair chance in my life. Any of both mess up and they are out.
    Well to be honest, you never argue with people who just see things in black and white. It allways just ends in logical fail.

    I don't think the guy understands the middle ground, you know where you are able to see both extremes. LIke, hell,o for every vagina hater, there is a penis hater too.
    Like you can totally fight for equal pay, because it's rite, and think Ji's lines are fine.. lol
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  3. #103
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    That's horrible =( Freaking QQ'ers about the most minor things in game I swear -.-

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Sendai View Post
    False.

    I hate neo-feminism, but I totally respect women. Exactly the same as I respect men and both are giving a fair chance in my life. Any of both mess up and they are out.
    well fair enough, I can understand why someone would object to neo-feminism, but I also understand why it exists as mentioned earlier in the thread.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Alewen View Post
    We all know about that one infamous line of his. "Wow you are some kind of gorgeous aren't you? I can tell we are going to be good friends!".

    Well because a few people for some odd reason got offended at being flirted with by an NPC, Blizzard took that unique npc and nerfed him down to be just like the other stale NPC's. He now says "You seem poised and ready. I can tell we are going to be good friends."

    Sorry but that just seems wrong to me. NPC's need to have more life to them. They need to stand out in the world. Ji no longer stands out. He is just another questgiver with almost no personality. It's shameful that they would listen to a few people who were offended over nothing to change him like that.
    You know how we have placeholder NPC's, it's possible we also see some placeholder dialogue. I doubt Blizzard intended for a faction leader to say that line on live, it's corny beyond belief.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Maedra View Post
    Instead of bowing out of our little discussion perhaps you could enlighten me instead? What if I don't know any better? Maybe that would change my way of thinking into a, for you, more preferable? Or do you rather have me continue this way? By reading the other reactions I'd say the first one, right?
    for starters look up gender balance in sexual crimes, rates of pay, and read up some on the male gaze.

  7. #107
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alewen View Post
    Ji no longer stands out. He is just another questgiver with almost no personality. It's shameful that they would listen to a few people who were offended over nothing to change him like that.
    I dunno, it still feels like he's got some life to him. He's still flattering you in the hopes of getting into your inner circle, it's just that he's not a sexist who grows out of it anymore. While I felt that was a great example of character development, the way Aysa and a female PC challenge his views enough that he starts appreciating women for more than their appearance as you quest, this puts his development on more even footing with a male PC's. He starts out as the slimy guy who showers you with compliments and weasels his way into your inner circle, but grows as he sees just how truly talented/skilled/badass you really are, inspiring him to better himself. The change isn't as drastic, maybe, but it's still visible and noteworthy.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by moogogaipan View Post
    Well to be honest, you never argue with people who just see things in black and white. It allways just ends in logical fail.

    I don't think the guy understands the middle ground, you know where you are able to see both extremes. LIke, hell,o for every vagina hater, there is a penis hater too.
    Like you can totally fight for equal pay, because it's rite, and think Ji's lines are fine.. lol
    I don't see things in black and white though, I just understand the value of an extreme attitude when it's the 'smaller' attitude. think of gender imbalance as a set of scales. the 'counterweight' is smaller and lighter, so you need to put it on the scales with a bit of outside force and momentum to balance them up. as the scales near balance you ease off the forcefulness and you hit a nice balance.

  9. #109
    The Patient
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    Bring back Warden lolol!

  10. #110
    We got to the point where people now complain about npc dialogues. Guess we're running out of things that actually make sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion View Post
    The loss of the ability to pass on loot is the loss of the ability to choose. This is communism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aevra View Post
    It's a #$^&*@ fantasy game. You're a blue space goat riding around on flying serpents killing dragons the size of continents. And you're wondering why a gryphon doesn't look like an eagle?

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Alewen View Post
    Well because a few people for some odd reason got offended at being flirted with by an NPC
    Flirting? Well, I guess if you take the comment literally.

    To me it seemed like a sarcastic way to say someone doesn't look too powerful or fit to help.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    I dunno, it still feels like he's got some life to him. He's still flattering you in the hopes of getting into your inner circle, it's just that he's not a sexist who grows out of it anymore. While I felt that was a great example of character development, the way Aysa and a female PC challenge his views enough that he starts appreciating women for more than their appearance as you quest, this puts his development on more even footing with a male PC's. He starts out as the slimy guy who showers you with compliments and weasels his way into your inner circle, but grows as he sees just how truly talented/skilled/badass you really are, inspiring him to better himself. The change isn't as drastic, maybe, but it's still visible and noteworthy.
    Maybe. But I think they nerfed it to the extreme. And I still just don't get how telling a female character she is gorgeous, makes him sexist. It's not like he was like them guys you see at construction sites when a woman passes by. There are far far worse things to really complain about than being told you are gorgeous.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by rad586 View Post
    We're talking about a single NPC here ........ SINGLE NPC!!!
    2 lines of text from said NPC will NOT hurt any business whatsoever.

    My opinion ? Huge overreaction from Blizzard.
    I think the only overreaction here is yours.
    As you said, it's one NPC. So why not change it?

  14. #114
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alewen View Post
    Maybe. But I think they nerfed it to the extreme. And I still just don't get how telling a female character she is gorgeous, makes him sexist. It's not like he was like them guys you see at construction sites when a woman passes by. There are far far worse things to really complain about than being told you are gorgeous.
    Personally, I was all for him being a sexist that grew out of it by the time you hit Orgrimmar, though I do agree the feedback was... overzealous. I'm just saying, it's not like they lobotomized his character, they just removed one aspect and fed more into another (he went from playing into the man strong/woman sexy stereotype, to overly complimenting your skill regardless of gender).

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    I think the only overreaction here is yours.
    As you said, it's one NPC. So why not change it?
    How about you read the thread before replying and notice that there are many more upset by this change ?

    Basically they listened to EXTREMELY small vocal minority ....... this doesn't look well for the future.

  16. #116
    Dreadlord glowzone's Avatar
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    I honestly don't see the problem, I always find it a good laugh or kind of cute whene I see an npc do something strange, like belbi (female gnome with goggles) from the brewfest event, or that female goblin near the zeplins, but hey, I'm a guy.

    I wouldn't mind getting told why it's annoying/offensive tho.

  17. #117
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    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    for starters look up gender balance in sexual crimes, rates of pay, and read up some on the male gaze.
    I believe I mentioned rates of pay myself already, agreeing that men are have better paid jobs, didn't I?

    I also agree that most of the time it is a male who is the aggressor in a sexual crime, however, there have been many reports about female sex offenders. Since you are our expert here you should be aware of the fact that quite often female sex offenders are not being reported? Maybe it would be interesting for you to read this as well: http://www.csom.org/pubs/female_sex_offenders_brief.pdf. Now I'm not saying that it's mostly female, on the contrary, but there are more then enough female sex offenders. When thinking of it, I have read quite often that when men try to sue women for a sexual crime there are not able to. "How can women rape men, men enjoy it" "A women would never be able to overpower a male" etc

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there are no differences, or that there is the same amount of female offenders. I merely said, and I'll quote myself:

    "I agree that there are still some differences when talking about top positions and salaries but what exactly is it that men can do and women can't?"

    Also I would like to hear your answer to another question I asked in the same post: ould this be an issue if Ji was a female NPC flirting with males and not female characters? Or would that be considered "ok"?

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    nah people hate feminists because they hate women.
    No you got it all wrong. People hate idiots. Some feminists are idiots. Some feminists are not idiots.

    We notice the idiots.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Personally, I was all for him being a sexist that grew out of it by the time you hit Orgrimmar, though I do agree the feedback was... overzealous. I'm just saying, it's not like they lobotomized his character, they just removed one aspect and fed more into another (he went from playing into the man strong/woman sexy stereotype, to overly complimenting your skill regardless of gender).
    I don't know, the new line he gives, seems a lot more dull than what he gives males now. I don't think there really is a neutral ground on this. But I just found that line changed into what it is, similar to neutering him. I will have to keep questing but it's not looking good I don't think. Especially if they went through and did the same change to all his lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by rad586 View Post
    How about you read the thread before replying and notice that there are many more upset by this change ?

    Basically they listened to EXTREMELY small vocal minority ....... this doesn't look well for the future.
    If this thread is any indication:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...7563774?page=1

    The majority in that thread also seem to want it changed back. I do hope the majority get what they want.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    because of course we live in an equal world with no persecution and no oppressed minorities right? I'm sure plenty of people would care, all the white western men in this thread who refuse to aknowledge that they still rule the world and get the easy ride while everyone else suffers.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-12 at 04:03 PM ----------


    you gotta be extreme to have an affect unfortunately.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-12 at 04:03 PM ----------


    no, you like the unenlightened ones.

    It's time to stop trolling, man. I don't need all this stupid in my day. Have you ever considered the possibility that a great many women are comfortable in their femininity? My girlfriend for one is very happy being complimented on her appearance, and gorgeous is generally a non-offensive way to compliment a woman on her appearance.

    I don't know what sex you are, how old you are, or what you've actually accomplished in life, but thus far you seem to do nothing but stand against a wall and villainize anyone who thinks differently than you do, even ostentatiously claiming fascist ideals and motivations. The hell?

    I also don't know how many sociology courses, psychology courses, or anything else you've taken, or studied, and even outside of that, women do think very differently from males. I don't mean that in a sexist way, ask any rational woman and she'll probably admit that she doesn't fully understand men or even herself sometimes. Men can say the same thing. That said, as a general rule in our society that emphasizes femininity and masculinity (which the majority are MORE THAN ALRIGHT WITH) women generally easily take to an emphasis of beauty, and their appearance becomes an important part of how they define themselves and view themselves. Once again, ask any intelligent, rational woman. And with this in mind, it doesn't make any sense to have changed Ji's lines.

    It just conforms to the gender dichotomy that remain a steady part of Western culture. Men are viewed for strength, women for beauty. That doesn't mean those are mutually exclusive, infact, the male line can easily be viewed as sexism because it highlights a problem for men that pride themselves on something other than physical ability. I could find it sexist if I really wanted to, being a white male, but I've got better things to waste my time with.

    Another thing is, how DARE you assume that because someone, male or female or otherwise dislikes extreme feminism, that they dislike intelligent women. You then assume that the only intelligent women are those follow ideals of extreme feminism.

    Once again, I care a whole lot about my girlfriend and her thoughts and feelings. She's defined herself as an individual, is extremely intelligent and loves to dress in various things and look good, and also unique. She also loves gaming and other such things, and we can debate for hours about philosophy etc. A reason you're trolling, is that no rational individual would argue for equality and women's rights, and then discount the intelligence of all women who want to embrace their femininity. How dare you.

    So yeah. Ji's line should have stayed. It gave him even more personality. (I'd also like to point out, that being overt about flirting is one of the better ways to let women know you're interested. Since Ji is a flirtatious character, this obviously applies here. Ask any rational woman. You don't get anywhere with anyone, male or female, unless you're semi-obvious about being interested, at least.)

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