Blizzard Devs Thinking About Splitting 10 & 25 Lockouts!

[Finn mac cool]

I think that dude looks more and more like some weird little hobbit every time he makes a video. I still like how it was it wrath compared to the changes they made in cata though.

[stomination]

making 15 mans would kill off 10 mans who cant make 5 new friends.

[ComputerNerd]

There is plenty of content in previous tiers if people actually gave a damn about running it.
The stuff to do argument has always been rubbish, and they ran both purely for the benefits, the extra gear.
It was never about the quantity of content.

[Opeth69]

Its a bad idea, from back running ICC heroic 25/10 clears every week you really started to get sick of it much quicker just trying to farm gear for a decent ranked LK kill. I don't want them to go back to that double lockout system especially if loots the same as it would create nightmare's in planning the ideal bosses for your 25m guild to run on 10m depending on which classes need what gear. If blizz wants to fix 25m, give some incentive to guilds that choose to put in considerably more time running/managing a 25m, as someone who's done both, the difficulty of 25m vs 10m doesn't matter too much, the effort maintaining a high ranked 25m guild eclipses that of a 10m guild, and it's becoming fairly clear the decline thats caused.
One thing I've noticed about 25m raiding scene is that consistently performing guilds are massively higher ranked now than even the start of cata, they haven't improved that much, 10m guilds haven't taken the place of 25s, its simply 25s disbanding and leaving the game with maybe 5-10 of those carrying on to new guilds. It was the 25m guilds that made server communities and its the 25m guilds that make wow worth playing, a game without them is a dead game so I hope blizz comes up with some way of fixing the imbalances. Sorry for rant :P

[Prag]

I don't see how it would be possible to go back to that without some serious changes. I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of doing 10's and 25's, but I don't want it to be like it was in WotLK.

[iamdisappoint]

People against it fail to see that it is their personal choice to run both. No requirements. Don't want to, don't do it. Guild makes you, find another guild. Every action you do in game is purely by choice. Limiting choices for others because you have no self-control is pretty self-absorbed. If you are not in a top 100 guild, you are probably putting more effort than needed, and wanting gear to carry you over skill.

Don't be a gear whore. We need more achievements like 'herald of the titans' ... quit trying to overgear content to beat it, beat it with skill. It is like complaining about the raid wide debuffs, if you hadn't beaten heroic DW by now, going to 30% wouldn't matter, you don't have the skill to beat it, and if you do, and want the challenge, turn the buff off. Don't punish everyone because you have a wild hair up your ass (though personally I think the heroic raids should never be nerfed besides fixing mechanic issues, unintentional roadblocks).

More choices = freedom to choose = better for the community as a whole.

[Ridesdel]

i would love to see 10/25 go bye bye and have a 15 take it's place, the standard comp could be 2 tanks 4 heals and 9 DPS

[Ferocity]

I really hope system will work like in Cata, not like in Wotlk. Same drops (more in 25-men), same quests, but this time different lockouts.

In Wrath it was awful. Running 10-men and want legendary? Lol bye! Running 10-men and want profession recipes? Lol, AH that way! (and in some cases) 10-men doesn't drop your weapon? Lol, sucks to be you. Cata made things a bit more even, but merged lockouts. 10-men raiders were still robbed out of legendaries (I am sorry - but triple time required to make 1 legendary is still robbing).

But to make 25-men more appealing, Blizzard really need to add more options into graphic settings. Cata brought improved graphic engine which broke 25-men raiding for many people. There should be options in video settings like: don't draw any player's AoE except your own at all, don't process non-combat pets, don't draw any shadows, reduced polygon counter on player models, etc. and fully implement Omen in game, threat meter addons are not optimized for performace, we need reliable built-in threat meter.

[Prag]

People against it fail to see that it is their personal choice to run both. No requirements. Don't want to, don't do it. Guild makes you, find another guild. Every action you do in game is purely by choice. Limiting choices for others because you have no self-control is pretty self-absorbed. If you are not in a top 100 guild, you are probably putting more effort than needed, and wanting gear to carry you over skill.

Don't be a gear whore. We need more achievements like 'herald of the titans' ... quit trying to overgear content to beat it, beat it with skill. It is like complaining about the raid wide debuffs, if you hadn't beaten heroic DW by now, going to 30% wouldn't matter, you don't have the skill to beat it, and if you do, and want the challenge, turn the buff off. Don't punish everyone because you have a wild hair up your ass (though personally I think the heroic raids should never be nerfed besides fixing mechanic issues, unintentional roadblocks).

More choices = freedom to choose = better for the community as a whole.

Min/max dictates that there is no choice and no options. Min/max has been shoved down our throats by every wannabe elitist/hardcore so the whole "you have a choice" thing doesn't really fly.

Unfortunate, but that's just the way it is.

[Opeth69]

Min/max dictates that there is no choice and no options. Min/max has been shoved down our throats by every wannabe elitist/hardcore so the whole "you have a choice" thing doesn't really fly.

Unfortunate, but that's just the way it is.

Literally this ^ if there are 2 lockouts all it means is every guild has to then min/max every boss/loot drop to find the ideal quickest method of gearing as every other guild will do it too, it jsut creates a massive headache for 25m guilds at the start of every tier which would make the game more frustrating than it already is.

[araine]

Current tied lookouts works perfectly fine. The last i want is the force of having to do 4 raids by every character every week, Really if you folks like the split you would probably LOVE the TOGC/ TOC garbage raid. no trash just good old boss farming without having to worry about a gazillion of trash to pull. The way it is now have been a welcome change from the mindless grind that was forced upon you if you wanted to remain competitive

[Schmeebs]

Splitting the lockouts may increase playtime of players. I know I played a helluva lot more when during the week I could do 25 mans in my guild, and on the weekens I could do 10 mans with either friends/pugs.

[Cinnamohn]

Reasonable solution:
-Remove 10/25 lockout sharing
-Remove raid lockouts (you would still only be eligible for loot once a week) (also, you can still save an instance with X/Y bosses killed)
-Allow the first kill of each boss of the week for a player to be treated normally. For all subsequent kills, count them out for loot distribution.
-(Optional) Replace subsequent kills with a goodie of some sort.

This allows you to run whichever size of raid you want, as many times as you want, but you only get a chance at a boss's loot once (similar to how the raid finder currently works).
Let's say you want to join a pug who is on Deathwing, but you've already done an 8/8 clear with your guild. You can join them and run, down him, and for anything that drops, you cannot roll on it, be traded it, or master-looted it. The optional part - a replacement drop, for you specifically, could be some kind of goodie (gold, tokens, points, some new MoP currency for 90s, etc) that you receive automatically.

[Xami]

Bad idea IMO. There should only be one size for a given raid, like TBC.

[mordale]

Bad idea IMO. There should only be one size for a given raid, like TBC.

then they'd just axe 25man raiding altogether.

[Sanguinare]

lets go back to the Wotlk burn out it got wow more people playing cata burn out did not

put same gear in both let people run both if you want to be top in the world do both better then this shit it is now.

fuck 25 is a bitch to get people ok we are 10 now ..... 25 is dead

ok if i am in a 25man guild i can run that and for best gear i will run 10 too looks like people that want the best gear need to be in a 25man but people that cant be in a 25man will get to the same end point just slower. = 25 is flat out better but it wont kill 10.

or just fucking kill 10 fuck you that is not raiding and making 25 do the same shit as 10 just make the encounters suck lets split in to 4 all with different targets all with different weekness. look at highking, lady vash, keal, fathomlord, iildari council all different but none can be done with a 10man set up.

[Schmeebs]

Bad idea IMO. There should only be one size for a given raid, like TBC.

And then every time Zul'aman/karazhan instance comes out y ou get to deal with the A team/B Team Dramabomb.


Sounds like a whole shitload of fun.

[Sanguinare]

you do all know za was lower ilevel then ssc/tk so if you were in ssc/tk you only ran za for a free mount or shield because blizz just forgot to have them in t5

[Mormolyce]

If it's the same gear then you are FORCED to clear both each week. I'm in a 25m guild, this makes it annoying for me to split up into 2 10m groups (and leave 5 people on the side) to re-clear the stuff I've already cleared every damn week. If I were in a 10m guild like the majority of raiders, it would be nigh impossible. Either it would force your 10m guild to go 25m or all the 10m raiders would be forced to try to pug 25m raids. I can tell you from my experience in Wotlk, that is the biggest pain in the ass you can imagine.

Also, if they make you clear both raid sizes each week they will have to halve all drop rates to compensate. Otherwise every tier of content would get outgeared twice as fast. The only sane thing to do would be to make 10m drop crappier gear and TADA! We're back in Wotlk. Hope all you 10m guilds are keen on raiding 25m (which clearly you aren't given the massive slump in 25m raiding). This is all stupid in any case, the whole "I want a second run of the current tier with lower ILVL drops that I can cruise through after raiding properly" thing has been taken care of, it's called LFR.

If you have time left after clearing DS and want to raid get an alt. If you don't want an alt and don't want to do anything in the game that isn't a raid then find something better to do with your damn time.

You never had to. Hardcore raiders did. THere is nothing in the wrath raid system that MADE people run both 10 and 25. I welcome it and would greatly enjoy it.

Dude I played in Wotlk and I never heard of anyone ever who raided in 10m and not 25m. If you were in a 10m guild it was because you couldn't get enough people and it SUCKED.

[Dimmak]

As long as they never make 25 gear better than 10 man gear. This never made sense that you brought more people to an easier content. I always found 25 man easier than 10 man in wrath. While it was harder to get 25 people organized, it was far more forgiven to have 1 low dps, or 1 person die ect... think of it this way: in 10 man each person contributes to 10% of the success. In 25 each person contributes to 4% of the success.

Simply put each person in 10 man has more responsibility than in a 25 and yet the 25 man raid was rewarded with better gear.

Another person noted making a 15 man raid and be done with it. How many people remember when UBRS was actually a raid? You know that place you solo on your level 70s? It was a 15 man raid at one point though it was never billed as such when compared to the 40 man raids.

Then again I see the transition from 5 man dungeon to 10 man raid to be more organic. 2 tanks 6 dps 2 heals? Just seems to make more sense. I wish they would balance raids around that make up.