A Warlock tanking the forums for Warlock tanking!

[Inactivity]

Warrior: Another tank spec with 2H weapon and sheild

The Warmaster tree?

[Count Zero]

The model I described, was kinda how I hoped (and also as a result initially saw) how Destruction's system would work, but as it is, the model it's shaping up to be really just doesn't appeal to me anymore and so it would be fruitless for me to continue to test. In terms of controlling it's burst though, it does look like it might shape up well to the model you're describing anyway, saving up 4 Embers then launching them all with Dark Soul and Trinket's procced with a rather less flexible 2 min cooldown.

Really don't get the logic here.

[Jessicka]

Really don't get the logic here.

It'd be like me playtesting a Rogue, Druid or Warrior - they're not classes I play or appeal to me, so I don't feel my input wouldn't really be valid compared to players who are experienced with, or are interested by the concept.

[Count Zero]

It'd be like me playtesting a Rogue, Druid or Warrior - they're not classes I play or appeal to me, so I don't feel my input wouldn't really be valid compared to players who are experienced with, or are interested by the concept.

I'd think unbiased perspectives would be just as valid. Hard to be objective when you're invested in something.

[Torq]

I'd think unbiased perspectives would be just as valid. Hard to be objective when you're invested in something.

I made this exact same point in another thread, when Jess was complaining about things not working as she "expected" them to work. My point was that you can't really have any expectations about your class; you either know how it works, or you don't. Anything else is to look at it subjectively, and to made judgments based on how you think it's supposed to work.

[Count Zero]

Erm ... there is some shared territory between our perspectives but I'm not sure if I'd put it quite that way

[ComputerNerd]

Easy, allow them to use Strength as another stat conversion source like DKs used to be before Str->Parry was rolled out for all plate tanks

And end up with strength itemised cloth which is suitable only for a single class-spec combination ?
Or go again with another messy solution of an armor type for only a single spec of the class.

Interesting, hadn't considered that. How are things shaping up in the beta, do the other tanks still get some avoidance help from Blessing of Kings and its ilk? If I'm reading the MoP buffs right, that should be the only one that affects a leather or plate tank's avoidance now. (The strength/agility buffs have turned into +10% AP or +mastery.)

Maybe the quick-and-dirty solution is to shoehorn a "spirit gets king'd" benefit into our shoehorned "spirit-is-dodge" spec ability.

A messy solution to a messy problem.
Not a good direction to go in, when blizzard can't even decide the directions to take three established specs, let alone a fourth.

[Jessicka]

I'd think unbiased perspectives would be just as valid. Hard to be objective when you're invested in something.

I'm not interested in the concept they're putting into play with Destruction as a non-GCD capped caster with a resource system built around the permission and integration of a very long cast spell into the rotation. It's a step too far away of my idea of what Destruction should be, and what I would be interested in as a spec, which is more tied to the Wrath model built around fast casts and short cooldowns. It's something I've said countless times before the realisation of what the goal of the spec was, and since that realisation, I'm simply not interested and wont be interested unless the long casts are gone altogether from the rotation. I don't see what else there is to say, or why it's illogical to take that stance when my feedback clearly is in fact so clearly biased :S

[Taros]

I think this is a horrible idea. You'd have groups that need a warlock only want you to come in as a tank.

[Joodoc]

The problem is not the conversion itself but the sources of the stat.
Look at the variety of spirit buffs from external sources compared to the current number of equivalent stat buffs for other tanks.
Warlock tanking is only viable with another stat, one which is not so readily available from other sources to the extent of penalising others while trivial for warlocks.

Except druids get that effect from all thea gility buffs taht are present in raid, probably more than spirit, becasue the only spirit buffs I can think of are flasks and kings, whereas druids get icy talons or something from DKs which has agility, as well as kings and that agil flask

---------- Post added 2012-05-03 at 01:24 PM ----------

I managed the DTR boss perfectly well with a regular Demo raiding spec, and soloed a great deal of old content with it. Sure there are some fights which are straight up easier as Affliction, but that's how most classes operate in terms of soloing.


If we had to get it two specs would be the way to go. I'm starting to like how Demo is shaping up on Beta, it's keeping much of it's flavour while managing to reduce the button count; that is the direction I was hoping for, while also improving it's flexibility with Meta's use.


The model I described, was kinda how I hoped (and also as a result initially saw) how Destruction's system would work, but as it is, the model it's shaping up to be really just doesn't appeal to me anymore and so it would be fruitless for me to continue to test. In terms of controlling it's burst though, it does look like it might shape up well to the model you're describing anyway, saving up 4 Embers then launching them all with Dark Soul and Trinket's procced with a rather less flexible 2 min cooldown.

Really? you like the reduced button count? I hate it, I love all the different stuff I currently have to do as demonology. Beta feels so empty for demo. beta destro feels way more like the current demo than beta demo does. Demo has turned into the extremely empty, not hard spec on beta, and I don't like it, it feels like they lost the complexity that has been demo

[Inactivity]

I think this is a horrible idea. You'd have groups that need a warlock only want you to come in as a tank.

This really confuses me. Why would a group need a warlock yet only need a tank?

[Joodoc]

I think this is a horrible idea. You'd have groups that need a warlock only want you to come in as a tank.

It wouldn't mean a decreased amount of groups wanting dps locks, it would just mean that on top of that, there would also be groups that want tank locks.

[Jessicka]

Really? you like the reduced button count? I hate it, I love all the different stuff I currently have to do as demonology. Beta feels so empty for demo. beta destro feels way more like the current demo than beta demo does. Demo has turned into the extremely empty, not hard spec on beta, and I don't like it, it feels like they lost the complexity that has been demo

This is the paradox Blizzard need to fix. More buttons =/= more complexity, nor does fewer buttons necessarily = less complexity. I'm neither for or against more or fewer buttons, so long as the end result is enjoyable to play. There's a lot more to say that probably is worthy of it's own thread.

[ComputerNerd]

Complexity is more than numbers of buttons.
Meta Snapshotting for example was no more buttons, but the result while effective was unintuitive and I would argue an unnecessary complication.
It was not a fun mechanism because it was way too predictable and largely came down to lining up two cooldowns.
Something like Molten Core/Nightfall however as a random proc I feel is a far better mechanism, where you get more of a dynamic from having to react to an unknown which you can't predict with a timer.

[Ikrekot]

I post my proposition of changes and new spells in 4th warlock spec named Demon Hunting. You don't need like it. If you will have new proposition post it here or in this thread
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...03020?page=1#0

If blizzard give us 4th tanking spec.

[lupii]

While I think that a concept like "Demon Hunting" as the direction is a logical choice, it conflicts a lot with Demonology. My idea is simple: A warlock that consumes the blood of demons to the point that damage itself cannot harm them, for the magick that seeths through them makes them immune.

The Fel-Born

Now, if anyone doesn't know in terms of our lore, Warlocks generally run off of Fel Magicks, or the magic from the blood of demons and related sources. The majority of Warlocks today can manage that sort of addiction to such a powerful magic, being able to control enhanced demons while using the magic OF the demons. Now, the corruption of fel magic is very potent, as we have seen in many characters of the Warcraft Universe (Illidan, Kael'thas, All of the Eredar, etc). We can control the corruption and resist it. However, what if a Warlock was able to allow some of that corruption to enhance themselves, thus taking the Demon form to a true Half-Demon state?

The basis would be simple: Warlocks would enter a permanent state (similar to stances and presences) that would give access to a rage-like meter called Fel, replacing Mana, which would expand with Intellect. The trick of this meter is that it grows not with the use of abilities (Like Demonic Fury) but of Auto-Attacks and Damage Resisted. A Warlock Tank would summon a pet that would Auto-Attack the Warlocks tanking target. The melee damage done by the pet and the warlock would generate Fel for the Warlocks abilities. Specific Tanking abilities would use Fel. However, like the glyph uses, The higher the resource, the lesser the damage done to you and/or the higher your avoidance goes up(Probably just damage reduced due to fluctuations in damage).

Certain abilities would also be changed in this stance: Soul Shatter being a taunt and having a reduced CD, Fel Flame increasing Threat, etc. Also, I would suggest in having a CD that brings up your Fel to a high level as an opener, increasing threat for 10 seconds and a DoT that sustains threat.

Warlocks would begin by Popping the Fel CD, Attacking with melee, their pet attacking, spamming Fel Flame until the buff wears off, then going into a casual rotation of abilities to maintain threat. The result would be the Warlock being able to generate threat quickly at the beginning of fights and balancing with Threat and Damage with using Fel.

In Terms of the gear used, Warlocks would use INSTEAD the stats of their pets in a symbiotic link. With specific stat scaling from the spec, the pets would gain enhanced stats basing from Intellect. Haste, Crit, would all be converted to intellect at a very reduced rate. The main stats, instead, would be for Warlocks to focus on Intellect, Hit, Expertise(From Weapon and reforge) and Armor.

OK then, tear it apart.

[Inactivity]

I mentioned that I wouldn't mind a new hero class, the Demon Hunter. It could come in a tanking, melee DPS, and perhaps even ranged DPS (or two melee trees) variety and be a sort of warlock-rogue hybrid with a bit of monk mixed in.

The real problem then, though, is class overlap. The way I see it, there almost is such a thing as too many classes, with too many subpar ones.

[Ikrekot]

The Council of Six DaggersThe Council of Six Daggers

The pages within contain the story of the six master warlock trainers who unlocked the secrets of the most destructive forces to ever threaten Azeroth.

This rare alliance resulted in the new magics which were unleashed to all Warlock sects after The Cataclysm.

In the wake of The Cataclysm, the rising tensions between The Horde and Alliance have driven the greatest heroes of Azeroth to train for war. Warriors have readied their war banners. The Death Knights of Acherus have learned to control the Undead and it is even said the mages are researching ways to undo time itself.

Word of these new threats compelled the Warlocks to action. Convening in shadows, a council of six fought about what must be done to ensure the supremacy of their order, after several nights of blame, bickering, and signed beareds, the human Warlock Kanrethad spoke out:

" The relentless darkness which bathed Azeroth has been pushed back. Cho'Gall is slain and the remnants of the Twilight's Hammer cult have been scattered. Ragnaros is defeated and his armies forced back into the Firelands. Deathwing lies torn apart and his twilight drakes obliterated. However, the powers they commanded are not so easily forgotten... powers untapped and ripe for the taking."

"In fact, among us now stands several who have faced their power firsthand." He said, pointing at a hooded figure across the room. A deep, sinister laugh echoed through the room as his hood burst into flames and burned away to reveal the orc enchanter Ritssyn.

"It is true, pink skin, I was there when the Firelord was vanquished. The intensity of his flame was unlike anything you can imagine." the burning glow of Ritssyn's eyes cast eerie shadows over his burn-scarred face and thick-tusked grin.

"Untrue." spat a sharp, feminine voice, Shinfel. A Blood Elf adorned with sharp spikes of twilight elementium glared across the table, "Until you've been a prisoner within your own mind you know nothing of horror." Shinfel's blood had been corrupted during the fight with Cho'gall and her arms were now covered in black marks left behind by the corruption that had erupted from her skin. The experience had only served to increase the intensity of her sadism. Shinfel continued, "Even the Firelord's flames were overshadowed by the raw chaos unleashed by the Destroyer." She paused a moment and glanced to a Worgen who remained eerily silent. Zinnin had been present when Deathing was unmade and had not spoken a word since. Zinnin's eyes narrowed for a moment, then snarled at Ritssyn.

Kanrethad stood up from the table and took a deep breath. "This is exactly why we are here. I have no love for any of you, but we each bore witness to pieces of even greater power. Imagine - if we fused the molten fury of the Firelands with the unstoppable chaos of Deathwing, even the powers of the burning legion could not hold a candle to our flames!"

Ritssyn kicked his boots upon the table and snickered. "And just who would do this? You?" he spat. "I think not. You haven't been seen in battle since the siege of the Black Temple. If it weren't for having shared the secrets of Illidan's transformation with this council, I would kill you just for having the audacity of summoning me."

Kanrethad's lips pursed for a moment, but he relaxed and continued. "No, the scope of this task exceeds the capabilities of any single member here. I propose this council split into pairs. Ritssyn and Zinnin would lead a group into Sulfuras. Similarly, Shinfel and Zelfrax would hunt down the remaining members of the Twilight's Hammer cult and ... persuade them to share what they learned."

A pock-faced Gnome applauded with mirthful glee. Kanrethad continued, "then we return... one year from now and take the results of our expeditions back to our own sects. More powerful than we would have been alone."

Ritssyn frowned as he saw the greed drown out in the Human's words dance across the council's faces, "And what would keep us from simply killing our partner in their sleep once it was a success?"

Kanrethad's brow furrowed and he growled, "Which is why we swear that if any member of this council breaks the contract and fails to return or returns alone, the others shall strike them down and banish their soul forever. We either succeed together or die alone."

Ritssyn knew at that moment there was no turning back. To decline was to invite his own death, and Kanrethad had seen to that already. He could defeat the human singlehandedly, but against all five? No. Not now... but after learning the secrets of the destroyer that zinnin held...

"Fine. I can play along with your fool's errand. But first I must know, where will you and that miserable forsaken Jubeka be going?"

"Me?" spoke Kanrethad with a wicked grin, "Why I'm returning... to Outland."

Warlock lore added in MoP. Book could be found in Orgrimmar near Warlock Trainer. Propably we could learn "Demon Hunting" spec from Outland. Kanrethad and Jubeka back to Outland and could learn more from Demon Hunters. They learn us summoning powerfull demons. Demon Hunters was melle dps with demon powers. They could use it in differet way making us tank.

[Underskilled]

Did a couple tests to compare the general damage taken + self healing between a demo lock (stacking mastery, tanking enchants) and my 388 geared protection warrior. Mostly just soloing cataclysm dungeons and bosses.

The results? I had a lot of trouble on my prot warrior soloing the dungeons, and some bosses just couldn't be done. However, the premade demo lock seemed to be fine on most pulls with minimal cooldown usage, needing them every now and then for some bigger (and chain) pulls, but overall felt a lot sturdier than my warrior.

The only possible problems I can see is a lack of threat (only a guess, haven't done much testing) as well as the reliance on large amounts of demonic fury, though I have feeling both of these could be countered by proficient play, which I was most likely lacking

You may also keep in mind this is comparing a premade (378 geared, most likely badly itemzied gear) warlock, vs my live prot warrior, which I ensure correct gearing. A fairly large gap in gear, and yet the damage taken is very different between the two.

[Inactivity]

Did a couple tests to compare the general damage taken + self healing between a demo lock (stacking mastery, tanking enchants) and my 388 geared protection warrior. Mostly just soloing cataclysm dungeons and bosses.

Even on live, warlocks are considered better at soloing than prot warriors (which is actually one of the worst soloing classes). That doesn't say anything about tanking current content bosses though.