25-man/10-man raid separation solution - Best of both worlds

[Klingers]

Easy solution here to a very vocal problem that should by the math at least appease both crowds... But probably won't.

Separate the lockouts, but per-boss only make a character eligible for loot and JP on one version of the raid per week.

That way the complainers have their raid flexibility. The people who don't want to be forced to run twice as often don't have to worry, because the impetus is not on them to try and gear up twice as fast. You can use 10-man for tactics and 25-man for loot runs... Whatever takes your fancy.

Suffice to say if you take the lockout out of the equation, anyone that has a material argument as to why you should be able to be rewarded twice really doesn't believe that players should be empowered to make a choice.

Nobody should have to be emotionally-blackmailed by overzealous guild/raid leaders into raids they don't want to do a second time every week.

[Talen]

Easy solution here to a very vocal problem that should by the math at least appease both crowds... But probably won't.

Separate the lockouts, but per-boss only make a character eligible for loot and JP on one version of the raid per week.

If you can think of a suitable way to curb the inevitable abuses of this system, post it on the official sites.

EJL

[Deleted]

The only downside I see to this is that 25s still have an extra gearing edge if they run a 10m raid and then just split the 25m loot between 15 people. Which of course will be done.

That's not really an issue if you WANT 25s to have more gear incentives. The question is whether Blizz will go in that direction.

[mordale]

still won't work, look at the first tier of Cata's raids.

any difference between a boss's two versions and players will fight that one, like H10man nef being harder then H25man or H10man al"akir being cheese while H25man is torture.

but, odds are this is as close as were going to get really...
the only way to prevent the problem i had was to lock people out of the other version completely if they do the first boss on the other one.
or just have one raid size.

[cFortyfive]

And this is supposed to accomplish ...what exactly ?

[Talen]

The only downside I see to this is that 25s still have an extra gearing edge if they run a 10m raid and then just split the 25m loot between 15 people. Which of course will be done.

That's not really an issue if you WANT 25s to have more gear incentives. The question is whether Blizz will go in that direction.

I'd say that doubtful.

Blizzard already tried the "Incentivise 25s" route in LK. And they didn't want the problesm that created.

Unless the decline of 25s is having a greater impact on the community of the game than seems apparent, unless 25s bring something truly valuable that 10s simply can't, then I don't see much chance of Blizzrad reversing direction on this issue at this tim.

Doubtless, there are tweaks that can be made. Doubtless, there is a ***small*** degree of room for flexibility. But right now, even somehtign with no gameplay value such as titles and achievements have become seen as rewards in their own right. Blizzards concept of making 25s more efficient was probably the best way to go if they wnat to keep their current policies.

But even that wasn't a great draw. As it is, the porblem with the policy is simple; 25s need incentives to draw people towards them. But any incentive would be a lure, a bribe, to get people to play that format. This breaks the current set of policy guideliens Blizzard appears to be following. In addition, no matter how you cut it, it is essentially Blizzard shepherding 10s away form a format they currently play simply to get rewards. The problem with the policy is with those players who run 10s but genuinely prefer 25s but can't find a slot because there are too few 25 guilds recruiting players of their skill level. Thats an organisational issue and not something Blizzard can or should interfere with.

In short...the only way to improve 25s is to tear up the current guidelines. Other than that, the main way forward would be to develop some guild and raid leader management tools, and provide mechanisms which streamline the recruitment and runnign of raids.

EJL

[Annoying]

Nobody should have to be emotionally-blackmailed by overzealous guild/raid leaders into raids they don't want to do a second time every week.

Even with separate lockouts, no one should go through this. If you don't like a guild's raid schedules/policy, you're probably in the wrong guild, and aren't forced to stay.

[fangless]

Just leave it as is, and when we're doing 8 man raiding the next expansion, just be there to say 'I told you so'.