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  1. #1

    Weapon vs. Weapon - What weapon should I use?

    We're Warriors. There are many things we hate and few things we love, but we really love those few things.

    We love ourselves.
    We love our weapon(s).
    We love polishing our weapon(s).
    We love smashing Paladins and Mages in the face with our weapon(s).

    We also love creating threads about our weapon(s). Which is understandable, but it's also quite spammy, so I figured it's time to open a stickied thread for questions about which of your favourite weapons you should use to maximize your DPS.

    Ask here any questions you have about certain weapon/gear/spec/race/trinket setups.

    Here is a general purpose weapon ranking:

    Arms

    416 Gurth
    403 Gurth
    410 Experimental Specimen Slicer
    410 Ataraxsis
    390 Gurth
    397 Experimental Specimen Slicer
    397 Ataraxsis

    Fury (courtesy of Esoterickk Frostmourne-US)

    416 Gurth + 410 Cudgel >
    416 Gurth + 403 Gurth >
    416 Gurth + 410 Specimen >
    416 Gurth + 416 Gurth >
    403 Gurth + 410 Cudgel >
    403 Gurth + 410 Specimen >
    403 Gurth + 397 Cudgel >
    403 Gurth + 390 Gurth >
    403 Gurth + 397 Specimen >
    403 Gurth + 403 Gurth
    Last edited by Siri; 2012-04-24 at 11:01 AM.

  2. #2
    Can this apply to items other than just weapons?

    Trinkets: We had an AoK drop tonight, and Firestones drop for us all the time. My other two trinkets are Rotting Skull and LFR Unmaking Eye. Which are the best two? I'd think H AoK and LFR Unmaking Eye.
    Thanks Soko<3

  3. #3
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakudjo View Post
    Can this apply to items other than just weapons?

    Trinkets: We had an AoK drop tonight, and Firestones drop for us all the time. My other two trinkets are Rotting Skull and LFR Unmaking Eye. Which are the best two? I'd think H AoK and LFR Unmaking Eye.
    You are correct in your assessment. Rotting Skull in general is fairly bad for anything other than timed burst.

  4. #4
    Trying to understand the reasoning behind why a 403 Gurth MH/397 Gurth OH is better than a 403 Gurth MH/403 Gurth OH. I heard something with proc rates, but not sure exactly. Would help me choose a weapon in the future if something like this were to happen again.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellyidol View Post
    Trying to understand the reasoning behind why a 403 Gurth MH/397 Gurth OH is better than a 403 Gurth MH/403 Gurth OH. I heard something with proc rates, but not sure exactly. Would help me choose a weapon in the future if something like this were to happen again.
    In general, I've heard once you get ANY Gurth, you'll do more DPS if you go Arms, until you can get pretty high end gear. But as Fury, Gurth in general is bad for the offhand weapon because the proc will only have a chance to hit off of:
    - Offhand melee swings
    - Whirlwind
    - Raging Blow
    Meanwhile, the stats from the Specimen Slicer will increase both main and offhand hits to the point where it's more worth it to get the stats.

    Bloodthirst will only hit with the main hand weapon, as will Slam, Colossus Smash, Heroic Strike, and Cleave. I can't comment on LFR Gurth in the offhand, as I haven't heard anything about it, but in general I've heard it's best to have Gurth in the main hand for all situations, including over a 410 Specimen Slicer which would be BiS for offhand if I remember correctly.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    In general, I've heard once you get ANY Gurth, you'll do more DPS if you go Arms, until you can get pretty high end gear. But as Fury, Gurth in general is bad for the offhand weapon because the proc will only have a chance to hit off of:
    - Offhand melee swings
    - Whirlwind
    - Raging Blow
    Meanwhile, the stats from the Specimen Slicer will increase both main and offhand hits to the point where it's more worth it to get the stats.

    Bloodthirst will only hit with the main hand weapon, as will Slam, Colossus Smash, Heroic Strike, and Cleave. I can't comment on LFR Gurth in the offhand, as I haven't heard anything about it, but in general I've heard it's best to have Gurth in the main hand for all situations, including over a 410 Specimen Slicer which would be BiS for offhand if I remember correctly.
    Sorry, you misunderstood, my post might have been misleading. But I'm curious as to why DW-ing different iLvl Gurths (403/LFR) is better than DW-ing a Gurth (403/403), when a 403 Gurth is clearly better than an LFR Gurth. I'm guessing it's the same argument that a 416/403 Gurth DW > 416/416 Gurth DW? I don't see why though.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellyidol View Post
    Sorry, you misunderstood, my post might have been misleading. But I'm curious as to why DW-ing different iLvl Gurths (403/LFR) is better than DW-ing a Gurth (403/403), when a 403 Gurth is clearly better than an LFR Gurth. I'm guessing it's the same argument that a 416/403 Gurth DW > 416/416 Gurth DW? I don't see why though.
    Ah, yes I did indeed, I apologize. I can't say I can understand that either, I assume both the weapon damage and strength upgrades alone would make the higher item level better, nevermind the increased proc damage. I don't believe any of the versions proc any more often than the others, but I wouldn't take my own word so perhaps it's worth looking into?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellyidol View Post
    Trying to understand the reasoning behind why a 403 Gurth MH/397 Gurth OH is better than a 403 Gurth MH/403 Gurth OH. I heard something with proc rates, but not sure exactly. Would help me choose a weapon in the future if something like this were to happen again.
    The reason has to do with spell ids. With two versions of the same gurth, bloodthirst will try to proc the one spell id once because they're the same, whereas if you have different versions, you will have two chances to proc off one BT because you have two diff spells to try and proc. Spells meaning the one that procs a tentacle. If you notice, the tentacles do differing damage based on the version you have, which means they are actually different, so the summonning spell for each is a different spell proc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about having lots and lots of sex that means you're going to have a kid.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    The reason has to do with spell ids. With two versions of the same gurth, bloodthirst will try to proc the one spell id once because they're the same, whereas if you have different versions, you will have two chances to proc off one BT because you have two diff spells to try and proc. Spells meaning the one that procs a tentacle. If you notice, the tentacles do differing damage based on the version you have, which means they are actually different, so the summonning spell for each is a different spell proc.
    I see, thanks for pointing it out.

    Do you mean Bloodthirst? Or Raging Blow (or any skill that uses the off-hand)? Since AFAIK, BT will only proc the MH one anyway since it only uses the MH. If you mean the skills that use both MH/OH though, then I totally understand the reason.

  10. #10
    Bloodthirst can proc once from either main hand or off hand if you have only one or two of the same version. It can proc two if different versions of gurth. Other abilities proc off the hand that did the ability. HS doesn't proc any. RB mh wil check main hand, while rb oh will check offhand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about having lots and lots of sex that means you're going to have a kid.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Bloodthirst can proc once from either main hand or off hand if you have only one or two of the same version. It can proc two if different versions of gurth. Other abilities proc off the hand that did the ability. HS doesn't proc any. RB mh wil check main hand, while rb oh will check offhand.
    Ah, didn't know that! Thanks! Cleared up.

  12. #12
    so then what im understanding is that LFR Gurth is better for oh over normal mode gurth? if so i have normal mode ataraxis what should i use for weapon selections at this point since ive been reading on alot of different oppinions on weapons 403 gurth MH/ 390 Gurth, 403 Gurth/403 Gurth, or 403 Gurth/397 Ataraxis?

  13. #13
    I would use a 403 Gurth / 397 Ataraxis, IMO.

    As mentioned earlier, just don't stack two Gurths of the same iLevel.

    Hopefully you'll get a 410 ESS soon, that should definitely take the spot of the 397 Raxis.

  14. #14

    Which off Hand ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellyidol View Post
    I would use a 403 Gurth / 397 Ataraxis, IMO.

    As mentioned earlier, just don't stack two Gurths of the same iLevel.

    Hopefully you'll get a 410 ESS soon, that should definitely take the spot of the 397 Raxis.
    No idea if im doing this right as im new to this i posted in wrong place last time so here goes and appologies for b4.Im currently using Gurthalak,voice of the deeps (390) and Experimental Specimen Slicer (397) ,what im wanting to know is which i should have in my main hand and off? i know i should have the 397 in mh but the voice of the deeps dosent proc often in off hand so wondered what u guys thought?

  15. #15
    Mechagnome esoterickk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuggs77 View Post
    No idea if im doing this right as im new to this i posted in wrong place last time so here goes and appologies for b4.Im currently using Gurthalak,voice of the deeps (390) and Experimental Specimen Slicer (397) ,what im wanting to know is which i should have in my main hand and off? i know i should have the 397 in mh but the voice of the deeps dosent proc often in off hand so wondered what u guys thought?
    Gurth (390) in MH, ESS (397) in OH.

  16. #16
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    Wasnt really sure where to post this, but didnt feel it needed its own thread, so here goes.

    I got my 416 gurth yd, i also have cudgel 410 which made me look towards fury again.
    If we put aoe aside, how big dps difference does the specs currently have?

    4.3.2 sim'c says ~5k but it also sims with 2x 416 gurths.

    play prot ms so cant have both ^^

  17. #17
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    If we're just talking high-end gear in a stand still and nuke scenario I'd say the difference is pretty small (a couple of k)

  18. #18
    I am assuming SMF will not be that close to Arms this tier simply because of the proc for gurth. Here is my question;

    I have 403 gurth and have been arms, I do well.

    I also have 410 HoM and 403 SD. Would SMF with those two be anywhere even close to simply try something different without doing much less damage?

  19. #19
    The raid group I run with is likely to start Heroic Madness of Deathwing this upcoming monday and I was wondering if 403 Gurth or 410 ESS is best for this encounter.
    Moreover, what encounters is 410 ESS > 403 Gurth besides Hagara & Spine.

    (Arms)

  20. #20
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathgrinder View Post
    I also have 410 HoM and 403 SD. Would SMF with those two be anywhere even close to simply try something different without doing much less damage?
    That would depend on your definition of "anywhere even close", in my opinion it isn't close (it's more than a couple of thousand). I suggest you try it out on some farm bosses anyway, you may still enjoy it and you will be able to see the difference for yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Travex View Post
    The raid group I run with is likely to start Heroic Madness of Deathwing this upcoming monday and I was wondering if 403 Gurth or 410 ESS is best for this encounter.
    Moreover, what encounters is 410 ESS > 403 Gurth besides Hagara & Spine.
    I would personally stick with Gurth for Madness. Assuming you're talking about DS only I wouldn't consider the 410 ESS to be better on any other fights than the two you mentioned and I even think Hagara is debatable (although I'm sure some people will disagree with me).

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