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  1. #81
    Is Forsedar really banned?

    Either way, I just realized I had one more question...my Waist slot...leave it as is? Last priority for Black Hole gear? Get an orange one?
    Last edited by amsage; 2012-05-08 at 04:12 PM.

  2. #82
    That "400k subscribers" thread is a cancer on this forum.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-08 at 06:09 PM ----------

    I've already had 2 bans on this forum for simply discrediting what "trolls" were saying when they were intentionally trying to derail threads.
    Good luck...

  3. #83
    Please don't talk about bans/infractions. If you have a complaint/question about something PM either one of the forum mods or Sunshine.

  4. #84
    Can we have some more parse please to back up things people are saying.

    M.

  5. #85
    Dreadlord Byrogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malorian52 View Post
    Can we have some more parse please to back up things people are saying.

    M.
    Don't hold your breath, the OP was banned so I doubt this thread will be updated anymore which is a shame because it really is a great guide.
    Sell a man a fish, and he can eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and you lose a great business opportunity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Remnas View Post
    This guy could sell more Oxyclean than Billy Mays, and make you feel like a badass while using it.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrogan View Post
    Don't hold your breath, the OP was banned so I doubt this thread will be updated anymore which is a shame because it really is a great guide.
    Just to clear this up, bans have set term limitations. They are not often permanent.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/faq.php?...es_infractions

  7. #87
    Looks like Forsedar is free again.

    I'm curious to know if you've tried Pyrotech again or if you've still written it off.

    I'm still in Rakata, two aug slots, BH ear and offhand.

    I'm clocking 1334dps on the operation dummy (2x5 min runs logged) and I know my modding can be improved a lot still, about 300 power atm.

    Up by about 100dps on my max since I swapped over crit and surge for some power. The general guide of power over other things certainly helps.

    37 and 50 crit and 76 multi still but working on getting more mods to swap over.

    I feel its viable but I need to take a while more to optimise it.

  8. #88
    Do you have the Parses for these Gyro?

    Keen to see how Pyro/Assault fair up against Arsenal/Gunnery

    M.

  9. #89
    Yes I am indeed back.

    I am definitely not writing off Pyro, since we have a Pyro in the guild currently. However, he is also a Powertech so he does not have much of a choice. My reasoning behind being a little against Pyro is the sheer fact that most boss fights absolutely hate melee.

    Zorn and Toth is a prime example. Melee is in about 30% of the fight, which is horrible (I am talking about Hardmode). Most fights have really unforgiving mechanics towards melee, such as Kephess cleaving you to death... even if you're standing directly behind him.

  10. #90
    I'm not sure why the OP says the proc relics are bad. Sage Simc consistently shows them as the best thing you could have. Better than click relics. Also, it's been shown (supposedly) that if you have 2 of the 3 possible armor debuffs on a boss (they all stack) that having the kinetic proc relics are the best.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Nish77 View Post
    I'm not sure why the OP says the proc relics are bad. Sage Simc consistently shows them as the best thing you could have. Better than click relics. Also, it's been shown (supposedly) that if you have 2 of the 3 possible armor debuffs on a boss (they all stack) that having the kinetic proc relics are the best.
    Since 1.2c, armor debuffs do not stack. That was one of their 'mysterious' fixes done to Heatseeker Missiles. Seeing as Heatseeker is considered Kinetic damage, we got an additional damage boost due to armor penetration stacks functioning improperly.

    Also for a sustained 300sec duration in the BEST possible situation: On proc damage yields a slightly lower DPS output then the on use power boost. That is best case scenario. For a full 300+ second duration, you are not mindlessly doing your rotation. You're avoiding stuff. You're taking care of other responsibilities, thus yielding an even lower DPS output in comparison to the on use damage boost.

    1.44%(Percent of Total Damage) 26(Times procced) Grav Wave 7275(Total Damage Dealt) 20.42(Average DPS) 279.81(Average Damage Dealt) 30.77%(Crit)

    This was when our Matrix Cube was missing, so I was stuck using the Campaign Kinetic damage on proc relic.

    That is approximately on a 6min duration fight, doing HM 16 Firebrand and Stormcaller.

    You got a 20.42 DPS increase if you were to compare it to an empty relic slot. That is insignificant.

    A Relic that you crit, which will give a base +18 Aim, and has an on use power bonus that can be used multiple times on the same fight will yield a much higher DPS increase.

  12. #92
    Forsedar I don't mean Pyrotech Powertechs.

    I mean as a Merc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malorian52 View Post
    Do you have the Parses for these Gyro?

    Keen to see how Pyro/Assault fair up against Arsenal/Gunnery

    M.
    If Forsedar doesn't mind I'll show the logs. I have a feeling that optimal specs are not much different between the two dps classes.

    I know my build is not optimal. I had 31 power until a few days ago and towers of crit and surge.

    torparse.com/a/32981/20 (you need to add the ww. etc bit, I'm not allowed to put full links because I'm a new poster)

    Last two are my 1300+dps runs, #1 is constant and columi power relic #2 is constant and stat cube.

    Not much in it tbh except my damage piechart looks like a goddam rainbow compared to the piechart of an arsenal spec
    Last edited by Gyronamics; 2012-05-11 at 10:27 PM.

  13. #93
    I have no problem with the linking of logs in this thread. However, this is an Arsenal thread so I would love to keep the talk of separate specs to a minimum.

    My main concern with Pyrotech nowadays is the fact that it just isn't friendly towards current boss fight setups. Face it, you have to be pretty close to melee range for Pyro to be used to its full potential, and fights like Toth and Zorn (HM) HATE melee. Movement is a great way to gimp ones DPS, and as a ranged, you rarely do much movement at all.

    I'll try to do a parse of a 5min duration on a target dummy later on just for clarification. I do a minimum of 1500 DPS on a target dummy over a 5min duration. My gear setup is in my signature and it is up to date. That stat summary on that same link, however, are false since its crit DR does not work properly on that site.

    http://www.torparse.com/a/32006/29

    This is just a recent one to show. It was our HM 16 Firebrand and Stormcaller kill this past Tuesday. You can check out all the other logs on that link as well. It has all 4 bosses on HM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    Since 1.2c, armor debuffs do not stack. That was one of their 'mysterious' fixes done to Heatseeker Missiles. Seeing as Heatseeker is considered Kinetic damage, we got an additional damage boost due to armor penetration stacks functioning improperly.

    Also for a sustained 300sec duration in the BEST possible situation: On proc damage yields a slightly lower DPS output then the on use power boost. That is best case scenario. For a full 300+ second duration, you are not mindlessly doing your rotation. You're avoiding stuff. You're taking care of other responsibilities, thus yielding an even lower DPS output in comparison to the on use damage boost.

    1.44%(Percent of Total Damage) 26(Times procced) Grav Wave 7275(Total Damage Dealt) 20.42(Average DPS) 279.81(Average Damage Dealt) 30.77%(Crit)

    This was when our Matrix Cube was missing, so I was stuck using the Campaign Kinetic damage on proc relic.

    That is approximately on a 6min duration fight, doing HM 16 Firebrand and Stormcaller.

    You got a 20.42 DPS increase if you were to compare it to an empty relic slot. That is insignificant.

    A Relic that you crit, which will give a base +18 Aim, and has an on use power bonus that can be used multiple times on the same fight will yield a much higher DPS increase.
    I can see what you're saying but if you're moving and not wanting to click your relic because you'll have to be moving then you're waiting and possibly losing the boost entirely. If you use it and have to move you lose dps. If you wait too long you could lose the ability to click it again towards the end of the fight etc... I'm always dpsing as I'm moving as a sage even if I have to run and hit project I can stop and start dpsing in most cases into my rotation before moving and projecting again. The only time something is 'that' bad is when I need to run far to a specific place and then generally no dps is going on because everyone has to do that (which might make the click relic better).

    Are you certain that the armor debuff stacking is gone? I was reading that it was up and working not too long ago (after 1.2c I thought). Simcraft shows my damage going up by replacing a rakata gear pieces with black hole pieces (not accounting for the set bonuses) by only around 15-20 dps per piece. Per person 20 dps can account for 40-44k damage in a 6 minute fight with 8 people (tanks included but not healers). That's somewhat significant if you're pushing enrages but not necessarily for one person.

    Why does simcraft show bis relics being the internal energy relic and the matrix cube? Why did they say that the on click rakata with augment is better than matrix yet still the click campaign is worse than the matrix and internal energy proc?

    Also, is critting relics still buggy? I have yet to hear of someone crit crafting a campaign relic and only one crit craft rakata on swtor forums since 1.2 (in all of 25 attempts).

    -Nish
    Last edited by Nish77; 2012-05-11 at 11:49 PM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Nish77 View Post
    I can see what you're saying but if you're moving and not wanting to click your relic because you'll have to be moving then you're waiting and possibly losing the boost entirely. If you use it and have to move you lose dps. If you wait too long you could lose the ability to click it again towards the end of the fight etc... I'm always dpsing as I'm moving as a sage even if I have to run and hit project I can stop and start dpsing in most cases into my rotation before moving and projecting again. The only time something is 'that' bad is when I need to run far to a specific place and then generally no dps is going on because everyone has to do that (which might make the click relic better).

    Are you certain that the armor debuff stacking is gone? I was reading that it was up and working not too long ago (after 1.2c I thought). Simcraft shows my damage going up by replacing a rakata gear pieces with black hole pieces (not accounting for the set bonuses) by only around 15-20 dps per piece.

    Why does simcraft show bis relics being the internal energy relic and the matrix cube? Why did they say that the on click rakata with augment is better than matrix yet still the click campaign is worse than the matrix and internal energy proc?

    Also, is critting relics still buggy? I have yet to hear of someone crit crafting a campaign relic and only one crit craft rakata on swtor forums since 1.2 (in all of 25 attempts).

    -Nish
    Debuff stacking is indeed gone. When we were doing Kephess, I would move to another target at the very beginning that already had the warrior ArP debuff on it and use unload. I noticed no difference in damage upon application of my Tracer Missile ArP.

    First off, please refrain from using sims in order to do DPS comparisons. In this stage of the game, they are completely inadequate as compared to in-game testing. We do not have enough people openly submitting logs in order to verify anything else but sims are just not the route to take.

    Currently for Arsenal Mercs, the damage on proc is something you use when you have no other alternatives. Your Matrix Cube should ALWAYS be equipped because it is purely too good to let go of. The only reason I did not have it was because they were accidentally deleted with Tuesdays patch (but later given back). I do not know how they will go about making Matrix Cubes obsolete, but right now they are astonishing.

    About your critting relics question, I cannot answer. I crit my relic long before 1.2 so I do not have any experience with the matter, though I have heard rumors pertaining to it.

  16. #96
    Well the sage simcraft is quite good. A lot of people have compared them to logs and they are basically as close as they need to be to be considered correct. No other classes have decent sims by simcraft. At any rate, it could be the constant rolling of dots and ticks of tk throw that make the difference. I'm not sure. I'll do some training dummy testing with an armor debuff with rakata level relics to test the difference if you'd like. Or submit any other ops logs. I'm doing about 1550 on karagga and higher on jarg and sorno. Other movement related fights are causing dps loss. On nightmare level pre 1.2 ops I could swap in other relics for testing but no fight is exactly the same.
    Last edited by Nish77; 2012-05-11 at 11:57 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Nish77 View Post
    Well the sage simcraft is quite good. A lot of people have compared them to logs and they are basically as close as they need to be to be considered correct. No other classes have decent sims by simcraft. At any rate, it could be the constant rolling of dots and ticks of tk throw that make the difference. I'm not sure. I'll do some training dummy testing with an armor debuff with rakata level relics to test the difference if you'd like. Or submit any other ops logs. I'm doing about 1550 on karagga and higher on jarg and sorno. Other movement related fights are causing dps loss. On nightmare level pre 1.2 ops I could swap in other relics for testing but no fight is exactly the same.
    Well pre-1.2 was a bit skewed due to Heatseekers doing an absurd amount of damage. At that point, there really was no point in taking the time to question things since your DPS was 1900+.

    Right now, spreadsheets for Arsenal have proven to be REALLY accurate, so I've stuck to those.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Nish77 View Post
    New sage simcraft just released and still these are considered best in slot for hybrid sage/sorcerers.

    relic1=plasma_burst_device,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=77endurance,equip=ondamage_168 elemental_30%_4.5cd
    relic2=rakata_relic_of_boundless_ages,ilevel=58,quality=artifact,stats=77endurance_28willp ower,use=380power_120cd_20dur
    Well this thread is talking about Arsenal Mercs

  19. #99
    Yeah deleted the other post because the bis list I got was horrible and outdated. But I was discussing relics and not arguing just wanna get to the bottom of it =D

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nish77 View Post
    Yeah deleted the other post because the bis list I got was horrible and outdated. But I was discussing relics and not arguing just wanna get to the bottom of it =D
    Well its proc on damage, so that is taking into account DoT effects as well. You can be mobile with dots present on the target and still get the relic procs, where as Arsenal mercs are at a disadvantage if we have to move.

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