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  1. #741
    Maybe they do both Energy and Tech? I noticed that and it was a bit confusing to me as well.

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    Dom, which version of the relic is that? Because there is a version that gives well over 500 power. We did Golden Fury on HM so I assume that the 450 power version is from that? Either way, the 450 Power proc isn't *that* great. Anything under 500 power for those trinkets will be a net DPS loss (assuming you're using updated relics).
    Yup, it won't be better than the other proc relics...only question is it better than Boundless Ages? not sure, one advantage would not be needing to worry about activating, but that doesn't bother me personally

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 10:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    Maybe they do both Energy and Tech? I noticed that and it was a bit confusing to me as well.

    Quite possibly, if this is the case, then the Cerulean maybe better? this is all just speculation at this point
    Last edited by odawgg; 2013-04-16 at 05:40 PM.

  3. #743
    I don't mind clicking, especially with lining up for times that need more sustained damage. I'll go with the proc relic once I can get one that procs for 550.

  4. #744
    I bought an Arkanian Relic of the Ceruelan nova today and used it in S&V SM. It's damage type is listed as Energy(tech). And it's crit rate seems to match that (the two fights I checked had 33% and 27.27%).

    Vs Titan for instance the crit rate of Energy Surge (which I assume is the relic) is 28.75%, and my crit rate on the character sheet is 24.26%.

    here is the url-parameters to that fight, couldn't post it as a link. Justa dd torparse in front. /a/180916/5/0/Overview

  5. #745
    Field Marshal
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    So it seems we're all kinda at a stalemate... Not sure which is better at this point the usable UW boundless ages.. or the uw serendipitous assault relic? Hmm I will try to do some testing and post some results unless some one can beat me to it.. By all means

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 12:03 AM ----------

    won an arkanian SA relic from dread guards in SM ... i was pretty unhappy with the proc rate... and 6 seconds of a ton of power is barely enough for us to get 3 abilities off.. I really think its probably decent for a dot based class or a heavy hot healer... you get so many more proc chances.. For us the only things we would get a high proc chance from would be rapid shots and unload..

    I was using it for the 2 hours I had it before it bound to me and it just sucked. I wish I would have saved those parses but I'm pretty convinced that that relic is kinda crap for us. If someone has some numerical evidence to show its awesomeness I will definitely concede. But until then, ill probably be avoiding it. It looks enticing, but 6 seconds is short.. and we dont do enough constant damage to get it to proc often enough.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 12:26 AM ----------

    Also.... where in the hell is there an initiative enhancement 30? What piece of gear has it?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 02:09 AM ----------

    Im also not seeing a single initiative enhancement on any piece of gear that is reasonably accessible. My group hasn't ventured into HM ops as of yet.. But I see the only way to get accuracy on an enhancement is from battle enhancements or acute enhancements.. Aside from the few impants we have available that have accuracy power or surge and power..

    Any one else have a suggestion on where to get the accuracy without having to augment for it (which i wont do)? My only other guess would be crafted 28's because I cant even find an initiative enhancement 30

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Sysyx View Post
    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 12:03 AM ----------

    [/COLOR]won an arkanian SA relic from dread guards in SM ... i was pretty unhappy with the proc rate... and 6 seconds of a ton of power is barely enough for us to get 3 abilities off.. I really think its probably decent for a dot based class or a heavy hot healer... you get so many more proc chances.. For us the only things we would get a high proc chance from would be rapid shots and unload..

    I was using it for the 2 hours I had it before it bound to me and it just sucked. I wish I would have saved those parses but I'm pretty convinced that that relic is kinda crap for us. If someone has some numerical evidence to show its awesomeness I will definitely concede. But until then, ill probably be avoiding it. It looks enticing, but 6 seconds is short.. and we dont do enough constant damage to get it to proc often enough.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 12:26 AM ----------

    Also.... where in the hell is there an initiative enhancement 30? What piece of gear has it?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 02:09 AM ----------

    Im also not seeing a single initiative enhancement on any piece of gear that is reasonably accessible. My group hasn't ventured into HM ops as of yet.. But I see the only way to get accuracy on an enhancement is from battle enhancements or acute enhancements.. Aside from the few impants we have available that have accuracy power or surge and power..

    Any one else have a suggestion on where to get the accuracy without having to augment for it (which i wont do)? My only other guess would be crafted 28's because I cant even find an initiative enhancement 30
    Looks like that's strike 2 against the SA relic.. We'll be using comms for accuracy/power, you can use elite comms to get boltblaster's chest/helmet from black market gear....also Verpine chest/helm with ultimate comms. Acc only comes on i think the implants/boots from the standard ark/uw gear and the boots are paired with crit so depending on what we figure out with crit, we may be getting all our acc from the implants and farming ultimate comms

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 11:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MattiasV View Post
    I bought an Arkanian Relic of the Ceruelan nova today and used it in S&V SM. It's damage type is listed as Energy(tech). And it's crit rate seems to match that (the two fights I checked had 33% and 27.27%).

    Vs Titan for instance the crit rate of Energy Surge (which I assume is the relic) is 28.75%, and my crit rate on the character sheet is 24.26%.

    here is the url-parameters to that fight, couldn't post it as a link. Justa dd torparse in front. /a/180916/5/0/Overview
    I get an error when trying to go to damage dealt tab...can't view it, what was the typical dps from this Energy Surge if u can access it?

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by MattiasV View Post
    I bought an Arkanian Relic of the Ceruelan nova today and used it in S&V SM. It's damage type is listed as Energy(tech). And it's crit rate seems to match that (the two fights I checked had 33% and 27.27%).

    Vs Titan for instance the crit rate of Energy Surge (which I assume is the relic) is 28.75%, and my crit rate on the character sheet is 24.26%.

    here is the url-parameters to that fight, couldn't post it as a link. Justa dd torparse in front. /a/180916/5/0/Overview
    i testet involuntary kinetic proc relic:

    % of Type Hits Action Total Damage Average DPS Average Damage/Hit Critical %
    1.46% 21 Wind Buffet 5971 29.99 284.33 14.29%

    thus, kinetic no longer scale with tech crit. those damn ********* developer. net even a little hitn for anyone that they fixed this... Yet again I sit on a useless relic, fuck off my trustment that they are to dumb to change something like that and actually that changed it!

    Wildstar Black Ops - loved by strangers

  8. #748
    I got the same problem with the damage dealt tab, but got it on another fight after a few tries. So here's stats from there:

    % Hits Action Damage DPS Avg Hit Min Hit Max Hit Crits Crit % Miss %
    1.88% 53 Energy Surge 15278 35.62 288.26 251 480 11 20.75% 0%

    Going through all the boss fights, average damage ranged from 260 to 314' but the 260 was on the last fight were the dragon has crazy resists for a bit.

    Fight specific:
    Dash'roode: 277.21 avg dmg / 17.31% crit
    Titan 6: 302.58 / 28.95%
    Thrasher: 313.42 / 34.62%
    Oasis infiltration: 314.76 / 24.14%
    Olok: 300.79 / 21.43%
    Cartel Guard: 288.26 / 20.75%
    Dread Master: 260.05 / 33.33%
    Last edited by MattiasV; 2013-04-17 at 08:20 AM.

  9. #749
    Thank you all for testing the relics, that's good stuff... Sorry keren hopefully you can do a ticket for a refund.... Looks like it's cerulean and boundless ages for BiS relics then.

  10. #750
    Field Marshal
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    do we want to use a proc relic when our crit is so low? Wouldn't it be better to just use a pvp relic with raw power on it since the relic is relying on our tech crit% ?

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by Sysyx View Post
    do we want to use a proc relic when our crit is so low? Wouldn't it be better to just use a pvp relic with raw power on it since the relic is relying on our tech crit% ?
    I believe they removed those relics from the pvp vendors so if you already have some you can test it out. I won't have that option and my initial thoughts are that they will still be less than the proc and BA ones.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 01:15 PM ----------

    Sigh...ok, I finally got 2pcs of Ark/UW so i could do some testing. I have some info to share regarding comparing the old DG 4pc set bonus (-8 heat for rail shot) to the new 2/2 stacking TM crit. Now remember, I'm not a human simulator but it's something to go off until we have one.

    Gear: Mostly dread gear here w/ a few upgrades
    Aim - 2678
    Acc - 378 (99.29%/109.29%)
    Power - 1046
    Tech Power - 1606
    Crit - 85 (23%/23.52%)
    Surge - 252 (66.9%)
    Relics: DG KT & DG BA

    Parses: Both over 20min
    http://www.torparse.com/a/181949/2/0/Damage+Dealt (DG 4pc)
    http://www.torparse.com/a/181949/1/0/Damage+Dealt (DG 2pc & Ark/UW 2pc)

    What I found...a wash lol...It would be easy to theorize the damage output difference when adding the Ark/UW 4pc set bonus (8% damage boost to rail shot) using the data from the 2/2, since the heat management would be identical. And from that I theorize a .7% damage DECREASE if I were to have the Ark/UW 4pc set bonus.

    So again, this isn't a legitimate simulation, but from these two parses, damage was equal, but heat management was way easier with old set bonus. You can see the abundance of rapid shots in the 2nd parse compared to the first. It's very possible these relationships will scale with increased stat pool as I gear up and if that proves true, we could potentially find a lot of mercs rolling around in 4 dread guard armorings to keep heat mgmt, but won't know until I am or we have a simulator, whichever comes first.

    Food for thought.
    Last edited by odawgg; 2013-04-17 at 08:21 PM.

  12. #752
    WTB SimCraft of some sort because I want 10,000 parses instead of just 2


    I know SimC had a version that allowed us to pull profiles directly off of AMR. Not quite sure if they updated it yet. It was fairly accurate, too.

    https://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft-swtor/


    Looks like there are no updates since 1.3... but the tools are available to make changes for ourselves.
    Last edited by Forsedar; 2013-04-17 at 08:49 PM.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    WTB SimCraft of some sort because I want 10,000 parses instead of just 2


    I know SimC had a version that allowed us to pull profiles directly off of AMR. Not quite sure if they updated it yet. It was fairly accurate, too.

    https://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft-swtor/


    Looks like there are no updates since 1.3... but the tools are available to make changes for ourselves.
    Agreed, that one was fantastic, I think the creators mighta bailed on it though... if you know how to do it, please do lol

    Edit: but in the meantime, would u rather have something...or nothing...?
    Last edited by odawgg; 2013-04-17 at 09:20 PM.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by odawgg View Post
    Agreed, that one was fantastic, I think the creators mighta bailed on it though... if you know how to do it, please do lol

    Edit: but in the meantime, would u rather have something...or nothing...?
    Oh something is better than nothing for sure, but 1 or even 10 parses don't necessarily prove something. I know some attempts I go through like 8+ Tracers before getting a Barrage proc. It doesn't make Barrage a small chance to proc... it just means I had bad luck.

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    Oh something is better than nothing for sure, but 1 or even 10 parses don't necessarily prove something. I know some attempts I go through like 8+ Tracers before getting a Barrage proc. It doesn't make Barrage a small chance to proc... it just means I had bad luck.
    Absolutely, I've done enough 20+ min parses though to know that it will give you a pretty good idea...it can't tell you if something is 10-15dps difference, but it can tell you if something is 30-50+ dps difference. So the point of those particular parses were just to show that it's close enough where the old set bonus should be something that's at least analyzed with the mix when we get a simulator, cuz the good lord knows I ain't doing thousands of 20min parses

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-17 at 05:07 PM ----------

    I would hypothesis though that Double TM crit bonus would become more effective in a boss fight due to the fact any target switch immediately adds a TM to the rotation, which is not necessary when you're beating a dummy
    Last edited by odawgg; 2013-04-17 at 11:13 PM.

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by odawgg View Post
    I would hypothesis though that Double TM crit bonus would become more effective in a boss fight due to the fact any target switch immediately adds a TM to the rotation, which is not necessary when you're beating a dummy
    That may be right, but with the 4 pc you will have the heat to switch just like you want anytime. When it really comes down to the point that 2x2pc stay around 30 dps of just 4pc DG armorings - than I'm surely in for the 4pc just to keep my mind onto fight mechanics.. (thou they are not really difficoult, but I'm lazy :P )

    Wildstar Black Ops - loved by strangers

  17. #757
    Did I missed something entirely? :

    http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20130418-0

    Originally Posted by SWTOR
    Alacrity Improvements: One of the big changes to combat systems is the way that Alacrity works. Prior to this update, Alacrity came with a tradeoff for some classes, and it was nearly useless to other classes. The faster you attacked, the more resources you would spend, and that only worked if you had channeled abilities or abilities with activation times.

    Now, Alacrity will increase the activation speed of all abilities, including instants. We haven’t just shortened the global cooldown, either. When activating any ability quicker, its animation will also play quicker. This makes some attacks look and sound very cool. Furthermore, Alacrity increases resource regeneration by the same rate, helping you to recuperate resources more quickly as you spend them more quickly. Now more Alacrity is strictly a good thing.


    gcds are effected by alacrity, too? Till now I thought only casted abilites do benefit from alacrity... :/ another think to remodel
    Last edited by Keren; 2013-04-19 at 11:38 AM.

    Wildstar Black Ops - loved by strangers

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by Keren View Post
    Did I missed something entirely? :

    http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20130418-0

    Originally Posted by SWTOR
    Alacrity Improvements: One of the big changes to combat systems is the way that Alacrity works. Prior to this update, Alacrity came with a tradeoff for some classes, and it was nearly useless to other classes. The faster you attacked, the more resources you would spend, and that only worked if you had channeled abilities or abilities with activation times.

    Now, Alacrity will increase the activation speed of all abilities, including instants. We haven’t just shortened the global cooldown, either. When activating any ability quicker, its animation will also play quicker. This makes some attacks look and sound very cool. Furthermore, Alacrity increases resource regeneration by the same rate, helping you to recuperate resources more quickly as you spend them more quickly. Now more Alacrity is strictly a good thing.


    gcds are effected by alacrity, too? Till now I thought only casted abilites do benefit from alacrity... :/ another think to remodel
    I don't even think that has changed much. Prior to this, Alacrity still affected GCDs on spells that were casted (not instant). We tossed in a lot of Alacrity to test it, and could use Tracer Missile one after the other with no downtime. This was purely for the sake of knowing, which was done around 1.7. Alacrity won't be a stat that we aim for in 2.0. We would be having heat problems like crazy.

  19. #759
    yup GCD gets lowered...when the merc community was doing testing on the PTS for alacrity, they didn't find it to be more valuable than surge though...it's good to talent it, but not gear it IMO

  20. #760
    So on relics. People on the healing side of the swtor forums did math on the relics available to them. This is how they stand currently:

    (pps = power per second)
    Dread guard relic is134.5 pps
    Arkanian relic is 127.75 pps
    Underword relic is 138.25 pps
    Underworld Relic of Serendipious Assault is 197pps

    This is assuming you get them off on cooldown, something that's not all that likely with SA for a merc, but it should proc each time an unload is fired if it's not on cd, so there's that. So that would put it ahead of BA from a pure numbers point of view, but it's very unreliable in nature. Getting one Cerulean Nova, one BA relic and one SA to swap for BA versus bosses with no real burn phase seems to be the best bet (though not many bosses without burn phases these days).

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