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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeli View Post
    If you use an Orange Belt & Bracers (now easily available from the legacy vendors on Dromund Kass and Coruscant), you can use an Armoing 25 and Mod 25, which will give you slightly more primary stat than Augmented Rakata. Moving forward, this will be the same with the campaign gear, you can use a 26 Armoring and Mod there, and it too will be better than Black Hole Augmented (Which would require you to be REing the BH stuff too, a little too risky at the moment imo!). Obviously bare in mind that the Armorings need to be the ones that drop, and not the ones from gear of course since those are all bound to a specific slot type.

    We weren't sure that Armoring 26s actually dropped since Askmrrobot doesn't have them, and while we haven't had any drop, we've seen them on the Auction house.
    The Armoring 26s do drop, its just random. That is what I am waiting for in order to grab the orange belt/bracers. I didn't want to waste time with a 25. Also, 26's will only drop from Hardmode bosses... typically the 3rd boss.

    Thank you for bringing that up though! I completely forgot about adding it to the thread.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-27 at 10:31 PM ----------

    Updated OP with my current Gear Setup! It has all stats (except for ones included by stims).

  2. #42
    Hey mate!

    I'm sorry to bother you this way. I have been searching around your posts that BiS Denova list that you have mentioned in update #2. I simply cannot find it. We are progressing 8man HM Denova, missing last boss and I don't want to take the campaign item that drops and is not an upgrade at all or will soon be replaced later. I dinged 50 just before 1.2 patch so I was not able to get all the rakata gear so far. That is why I would love to see the new BiS so I can go towards that goal instead of pursuing 2 of them.

    I also had some other things to add to your guide but last time I read it they were already corrected. Great work so far and I hope you maintain doing it.

    Sincerely.
    Marko (Morgona, The Imps, Ula Vii)

    P.S. Can black hole implants be REd and recrafted with augments?
    Last edited by Akora; 2012-04-30 at 10:41 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Akora View Post
    P.S. Can black hole implants be REd and recrafted with augments?
    Yes they can, but I'd imagine you'd likely want to wait with doing that until you have purchased all your other Black Hole items.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeli View Post
    Yes they can, but I'd imagine you'd likely want to wait with doing that until you have purchased all your other Black Hole items.
    Definately, that is why I'm interested in BiS item list. Since as I can see some BH items are superior to campaign.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Akora View Post
    Hey mate!

    I'm sorry to bother you this way. I have been searching around your posts that BiS Denova list that you have mentioned in update #2. I simply cannot find it. We are progressing 8man HM Denova, missing last boss and I don't want to take the campaign item that drops and is not an upgrade at all or will soon be replaced later. I dinged 50 just before 1.2 patch so I was not able to get all the rakata gear so far. That is why I would love to see the new BiS so I can go towards that goal instead of pursuing 2 of them.

    I also had some other things to add to your guide but last time I read it they were already corrected. Great work so far and I hope you maintain doing it.

    Sincerely.
    Marko (Morgona, The Imps, Ula Vii)

    P.S. Can black hole implants be REd and recrafted with augments?
    Sorry about it not being completely noticeable! Its near the bottom under the link of my current gear.

    http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...f-6299c1d51008

    This will be straight forward. This is not including the 150 rating items, which is only through patterns that drop and potentially nightmare mode. I kept it realistic.

    Also, the implants and relic do have augments in them, but for any min/maxer I don't see an issue with getting those unless you are not clearing 4/4 HM weekly. Overall, I would say gearwise this is the BiS list minus some augments.

    As a side note: The color crystals can be +41 of any color, not the specific colors that are in there currently. Also, you can use orange gear in place of the campaign gear. It was just easier to put campaign gear with augments on that website rather than searching for orange items.

    I will keep this up to date consistently, even if I don't think people are viewing this thread.

  6. #46
    I hope we are talking about the wish list.

    As far as I've seen the legs you used are Black hole leggings from commendations and not campaign drop. On the other hand I think Black hole belt is also improvement to campaign one. Not sure of that one but loss of 9 aim and 41 crit (We are already really high on this one) to 32 power.

    Really need to take some time and check all the mods and enhancements in gear to see what can be mixed. Not so easy to do this while studying for 4 exams in summer though :P

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    Do NOT use the 'on proc damage to target' Relics. They are utterly horrible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerro
    "Now, this is one of those 'debatable' topics. I will provide the current ones I feel that are best for us and my reasoning behind it.

    relentless-winds

    (Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 224 additional kinetic damage.)

    matrix-cube-m7-b3

    Okay: My reasoning behind it... Right now for those of you who have the crafted Rakata Power relic WITH an augment slot (additional 28 aim), I would keep that. In order to obtain that relic, you will need to be an Artifice and crit making that relic. Through various websites I have visited and forums I have browsed, there is still no consistent playerbase that states which is better (Relentless Winds or Rakata crit relic). That being said, I stand by what I use for multiple reasons.

    My main reasoning for using the Matrix Cube in THIS content is the base 58 aim that is consistent as well as the 24 crit rating. We, as Bounty Hunters, want to be as close to 30% unbuffed as possible. If I were to drop my Matrix Cube, I would lose out on a lot of base stats such as more Power in other areas- which I believe since it is a static increase, it makes up for the Power cooldown on the Artifice relics.

    Also, Relentless Winds has a chance to proc additional 224 damage. If you look at the other damaging relics, they do not do as much damage as this relic for one reason: It is kinetic damage. That means it is mitigated by the bosses armor. HOWEVER, we as Bounty Hunters actually hit 100% armor penetration due to the Sith Warrior armor penetration debuff, the Sniper debuff, and our very own debuff stacking. That coupled with our High Velocity Gas Cylinder puts us above 100% armor penetration (the excess amount does nothing for us). I do not know if this is working as intended but this is how it works. That means, Relentless Winds being Kinetic damage does more damage for us as Mercenaries than any other class out there. We fully utilize the full 224 damage which slightly scales with us anyways, so you can see numbers as high as 450 crits sometimes."
    What exactly made you go from "this is what I feel is best for us" to "they are utterly horrible"? Quite a definitive change of heart.
    Last edited by maidenheaven; 2012-05-01 at 02:55 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Akora View Post
    I hope we are talking about the wish list.

    As far as I've seen the legs you used are Black hole leggings from commendations and not campaign drop. On the other hand I think Black hole belt is also improvement to campaign one. Not sure of that one but loss of 9 aim and 41 crit (We are already really high on this one) to 32 power.

    Really need to take some time and check all the mods and enhancements in gear to see what can be mixed. Not so easy to do this while studying for 4 exams in summer though :P
    I mixed all of the mods and enhancements. I believe in the list I posted I am using the Black Hole legs with its enhancements/mods/armoring. The reason being, it gives the best stats possible. We only need 4 pieces of gear in order to get the set bonus. Ontop of that, the gloves and boots are the best campaign gear for us Mercs so that eliminates those slots from the equation. [COLOR="red"]
    Last edited by Forsedar; 2012-05-01 at 04:37 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post

    This was a post made on the guild forums which leads me to believe that you are currently a member of the guild. That being said, you clearly didn't read down in that thread where my argument was, "I'm too lazy to level up Artifice so I will stick with this relic." In the end, I did level up Artifice because it IS a bigger DPS increase. I was merely justifying to Zero why I chose that relic.

    Before you come into my thread trying to prove my logic wrong- please do some more research within our guild. I do not know who you are or even understand why you have anything against me but cut it out. If this is a mere trolling attempt, again, cut it out.

    I apologize if I came off as trolling, I was sincerely wondering what the situation was and if there was some kind of change to mechanics/nerf that I didn't know about that made you change your mind; it was an honest question. I am not trying to prove your logic wrong, I am trying to pick your brain. No need to be hostile.

    I am not a member of your guild. I found that post on the torhead forums via google.

    torhead.com/forum/Trooper+and+Bounty+Hunter/topic/1116

    Back to the matter at hand. I understand that you feel the crit crafted Rakata relic is better, but before you had it you were still using Relentless Winds as a second choice and you now call it "utterly horrible". I am trying to understand why, as not all of us have the time/patience/resources/desire to reroll professions but would still like to maximize DPS output. Before you used the crit crafted Rakata relic, you used Relentless Winds + Matrix Cube. Does that mean you'd endorse the Campaign kinetic proc relic + Matrix Cube to those without a crit crafted Rakata?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by maidenheaven View Post
    I apologize if I came off as trolling, I was sincerely wondering what the situation was and if there was some kind of change to mechanics/nerf that I didn't know about that made you change your mind; it was an honest question. I am not trying to prove your logic wrong, I am trying to pick your brain. No need to be hostile.

    I am not a member of your guild. I found that post on the torhead forums via google.

    torhead.com/forum/Trooper+and+Bounty+Hunter/topic/1116

    Back to the matter at hand. I understand that you feel the crit crafted Rakata relic is better, but before you had it you were still using Relentless Winds as a second choice and you now call it "utterly horrible". I am trying to understand why, as not all of us have the time/patience/resources/desire to reroll professions but would still like to maximize DPS output. Before you used the crit crafted Rakata relic, you used Relentless Winds + Matrix Cube. Does that mean you'd endorse the Campaign kinetic proc relic + Matrix Cube to those without a crit crafted Rakata?
    Oh wow I completely forgot I posted that on torhead. That was a LONG time ago. I was using the Relentless Winds because I was too lazy to level Artifice up at the time. That is why I said it is a debatable topic. I did level up Artifice because it is a DPS increase, but at the time I was merely just too damn lazy. I hope you can understand.

    That being said, I do endorse using the Campaign proc relic plus the matrix cube. However, certain fights you would be better off with the Campaign Boundless relic (Power) due to having more damage on demand. Its purely situational.

  11. #51
    I see, thank you. You might want to reword some of your original post then I'm not sure I'd say "utterly horrible" when it's a good alternative for those without Artifice - that syntax really threw me off!

    I personally use the Campaign Boundless Ages relic (great to align with cooldowns for burn phases) and have flip-flopped back and forth twenty times on the Matrix Cube vs the proc relic. Do you happen to have any math/hard data comparing the two? I've been having this argument with myself for a while now.

  12. #52
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
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    Thank you for the info.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by maidenheaven View Post
    I see, thank you. You might want to reword some of your original post then I'm not sure I'd say "utterly horrible" when it's a good alternative for those without Artifice - that syntax really threw me off!

    I personally use the Campaign Boundless Ages relic (great to align with cooldowns for burn phases) and have flip-flopped back and forth twenty times on the Matrix Cube vs the proc relic. Do you happen to have any math/hard data comparing the two? I've been having this argument with myself for a while now.
    I call it utterly horrible because some of the fights in Denova have strict DPS requirements for certain parts of the encounter that require on demand damage bonuses.

    On a target dummy, I notice that the on proc relic gives about a ~28 DPS increase looking at different peoples parses... as for the power relic, I can't give a definite answer. I notice a DPS increase for my own parses but I would need much more than that in order to give a number. There are too many variables involved in order to determine an exact increase.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    I call it utterly horrible because some of the fights in Denova have strict DPS requirements for certain parts of the encounter that require on demand damage bonuses.

    On a target dummy, I notice that the on proc relic gives about a ~28 DPS increase looking at different peoples parses... as for the power relic, I can't give a definite answer. I notice a DPS increase for my own parses but I would need much more than that in order to give a number. There are too many variables involved in order to determine an exact increase.
    Some fights have burn phases, sure, but not all. We still run NiM EV/KP for comms/titles for our alts and most of those fights are a bit more straightforward. If there are circumstances where the proc relic is better, which you yourself have stated, then it isn't "utterly horrible", it's just situational.

    And sorry, I wasn't asking for the power relic vs the proc relic, I was asking for the proc relic vs the matrix cube. 28 DPS is a fair estimate for Relentless Winds (my parses have shown between 26-30). I don't yet have the Campaign proc relic to test, but obviously it would be slightly higher. Do you have any math showing the approximate DPS of the matrix cube?

    I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything, I just can't bring myself to take somebody's word for it without data
    Last edited by maidenheaven; 2012-05-01 at 05:22 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by maidenheaven View Post
    Some fights have burn phases, sure, but not all. We still run NiM EV/KP for comms/titles for our alts and most of those fights are a bit more straightforward. If there are circumstances where the proc relic is better, which you yourself have stated, then it isn't "utterly horrible", it's just situational.

    And sorry, I wasn't asking for the power relic vs the proc relic, I was asking for the proc relic vs the matrix cube. 28 DPS is a fair estimate for Relentless Winds (my parses have shown between 26-30). I don't yet have the Campaign proc relic to test, but obviously it would be slightly higher. Do you have any math showing the approximate DPS of the matrix cube?

    I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything, I just can't bring myself to take somebody's word for it without data
    Oh I understand completely. I only run NiM KP for titles, and its so faceroll for us that we don't really look for 'optimal' output. However, the Matrix Cube should always be used at this point. Its a solid +58 aim at all times. That is an 11.6 bonus damage increase for all abilities. When I say bonus damage, I am talking about the number in your character tab. Not to mention the crit you gain is almost on par with an enhancement in your gear.

    The Matrix Cube should be an item equipped at all times. I do not know when it will go out of style, but in this current tier it is still better than any relic you could possibly attain. Later today I will run some parses with and without the matrix cube to show how much of an affect it does have.


    Edit: Just ran it through my spreadsheet in place of the Matrix Cube. It is showing an 11 DPS loss which isn't significant but this is based off of having a 300sec long fight that is stand still so the situation is in favor of Relentless Winds or any other proc based relic... but still results in lower DPS.

    Ignore the high amount of DPS, I still have to go in and modify a few changes due to 1.2 screwing our numbers up. However, the DPS loss/gain values will remain the same.

    http://i.imgur.com/RJRfM.png
    Last edited by Forsedar; 2012-05-01 at 05:45 PM.

  16. #56
    Thanks, I appreciate it.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by maidenheaven View Post
    Thanks, I appreciate it.
    I updated my previous post with a screenshot of the spreadsheet resulting in lower DPS but I will still test it later on on my target dummy.

  18. #58
    So quick question, I got stuck on ground duty for Firebrand and Stormcaller (mostly cause I'm one of the newer raiders, so my dps is naturally lower, so sacrificing mine isn't such a big deal). Any tips? (On hard mode btw).

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Shotdabow View Post
    So quick question, I got stuck on ground duty for Firebrand and Stormcaller (mostly cause I'm one of the newer raiders, so my dps is naturally lower, so sacrificing mine isn't such a big deal). Any tips? (On hard mode btw).
    Just stand there and do your normal rotation. When you get hit by the Lightning, just sidestep a little bit and continue your rotation. The key is to make sure you don't use your Unload when lightning is about to spawn. You'll start noticing a pattern and automatically know when its about to happen. If your gut is telling you its soon, just stick with Tracer/Rail shot/Heatseeker and use your unload right after a lightning spawns.

    Once you get it down, your DPS shouldn't suffer too heavily. Make use of your Heatseeker and Railshot while moving since its puts everything on a GCD naturally!

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Shotdabow View Post
    So quick question, I got stuck on ground duty for Firebrand and Stormcaller (mostly cause I'm one of the newer raiders, so my dps is naturally lower, so sacrificing mine isn't such a big deal). Any tips? (On hard mode btw).
    At start of fight you get red circles on the floor, within this time you should pull 3x tracer + unload off. Right after you should start moving so add Heatseeking in. The lightning should just miss you. When you get yellow circle, you have time for aditional tracer before you cleanse yourself of it. Do not cast unload when this happens, you'll be hit. I always use unload right after cleansing circle off. Another help would be to watch the lightning shield at all times. The same moment you see the animation disapear you need to move. Shield will always spawn where you stood at this time and you will not get hit by it which will help your healer alot. Just keep practicing and you'll get it in few tries. Also use on proc relic instead of on demand since you will never be able to stand still and nuke for the whole duration.

    Might be helpful to stand on Firebrand's side as well since healer there has much easier job.

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