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  1. #1081
    Quote Originally Posted by Leefty View Post
    Grats for the kill odawgg
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiem4aDr3am View Post
    heh yeah sorry for the delay. Yeah we opted for the fast clear method. Grats on your kill btw you definitely put in the time to deserve it.
    Thx guys. I tell ya, chattin' with you guys, hitting dummies, farming HMs, making guides, trolling forums....all that is great and all, but that's all filler for times like this. I'm glad BW gave us a super challenging encounter, first one since Kephess NiM to bang our heads against. And it was all worth it in the end. Sigh.......................taking the day off today lol, go back at it tomorrow haha.

  2. #1082
    For my own edification... Am I ok to be using the Advanced Initiative Enhancements 28 rather than the 30A Enhancements that can be pulled from elite gear? Accuracy is sitting at 99.5% so not an issue. I'm thinking the loss of power is more of an issue than anything else if I were to upgrade to the 30A's. And getting the straight Initiative 30 is not cheap since I'm not running hm end game atm.

  3. #1083
    Becoming optimized is never cheap!

  4. #1084
    Initiative 28's over 30A's is my question.

  5. #1085
    I'm not familiar with any lettered enhancements, I believe you are referring to the proficient enhancement vs the initiative enhancement. Initiative Enhancement 28 has 37end, 66 Acc, 43 power and the Proficient Enhancement 30 has 58 end, 72 acc, 29 power. If I'm wrong you can correct me. If this is what you mean then the answer is to go with the Initiative Enhancement 28, it's a better enhancement.

  6. #1086
    Thank you odawgg. That was what I meant.
    I confuse even myself sometimes.

  7. #1087
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmoore View Post
    Thank you odawgg. That was what I meant.
    I confuse even myself sometimes.
    No prob

  8. #1088
    I feel I should post again to verify my presence. I'm going to go back to being sick.

  9. #1089
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    I feel I should post again to verify my presence. I'm going to go back to being sick.
    It's ok, we've just redirected our banter to merc-unrelated trolling on the swtor flashpoint/operation forums instead lol

    P.S. you and Dom need to kiss and make up :*

  10. #1090
    Hey pizza I recently switched in 2 crit enhancements...75 crit surge and 75 acc/crit on boots. I have actually noticed about 50-100 dps increase from straight power. Me likey 114 crit rating.

  11. #1091
    Hey peeps long time reader of this guide but I just had a look at the advice on the front page and it looks to be outdated. Crit should be around 25% if possible and a few other things.

    My tree includes system calibration and critical reaction giving me for most of a fight 7% alacrity. I find heat management pretty easy without touching rapid shots


    Looking at the one on the front page it doesnt take into account of alacrity reducing the cd of abilities and it looks as though my tree is superior.

    Discuss

  12. #1092
    welcome here with your first post

    nope, crit is still bad if you aren't already at BIS. We discussed that already alot... Only with 72er gear and above crit values has a low but steady gain over more power. 75 BIS seems to have an optimal setup of 5 pices of acc, 3 pieces of surge, 2 pieces of alacrity. [odawgg]

    crit reaction is nice though, but you have only a 50% chance on crits, which dont happen that regulary. Furthermore after the fix about 2pc/2pc usage. However, the following statement means excactly those talent builds with points in both alacrity talents:
    Alacrity: The only Alacrity you should have are those gained from [System Calibrations](or double dipping)

    Wildstar Black Ops - loved by strangers

  13. #1093
    Quote Originally Posted by Maban View Post
    Hey peeps long time reader of this guide but I just had a look at the advice on the front page and it looks to be outdated. Crit should be around 25% if possible and a few other things.

    My tree includes system calibration and critical reaction giving me for most of a fight 7% alacrity. I find heat management pretty easy without touching rapid shots


    Looking at the one on the front page it doesnt take into account of alacrity reducing the cd of abilities and it looks as though my tree is superior.

    Discuss
    Just like Keren stated, tossing in 1 or 2 crit enhancements or mods may be a DPS increase in certain situations. Power has the more steady DPS rate where as Crit will be RNG based.

    Never should you prioritize Crit over Power permanently. Also as stated on the first page, there are 2 talents you can grab (1 in each) that will give you the Alacrity you just stated.

    Again, like Keren stated, the old 2pc stacking no longer works and we are now back to using a standard 4pc. I will add that if you are hardly ever touching Rapid Shots, then you are not pushing the class to its potential. Rapid Shots is surprisingly used frequently if you are using the new 4c. This will give you an overall higher APM and the ability to blast through more abilities. Not using Rapid Shots is detrimental to your rotation.

  14. #1094
    Thanks for your responses

    I understand that crit should be avoided like the plague and that is what I have done. I have got bis mods and enhancements for power and aim. The only crit I have is from gear.

    its interesting you make the point about crit reaction only having 50% chance proc. Im finding it is up a fair amount of time.

    Also about rapid shots this is a drop in dps and I would argue im managing my heat better and therefore hitting bigger abilities.

    Im by far not the best merc dps in tor but im a solid merc dps with 3rd in APAC for styrak dps.

    Could it be im using vent heat differently ? Im precasting all abilities and know my rotation down pat.

    the point I was making about in regards to double dipping build is that the talent tree doesn't show that its spec into although jt does state later on about double dipping.

    my alacrity build will give me faster heat dissipation. I find crit hits are not hard to come by, if im not crit on tracer I crit on unload or HSM or RS. This makes it extremely easy to remain at 7% alacrity for a fair duration of the fight.

    Sorry for any sp mistakes. Doing this on a phone

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 10:18 AM ----------

    Just to add some stuff.

    I use thermal sensor override and power surge then fusion missile then use the instant for a tracer hoping to get a proc. I also use vent heat differently. Ive been reading in a lot of guides to use it in burn phases or if your above 40% heat.

    I use vent heat only when at 70% heat or more and im able to get heat down to zero or very close to zero.

    the only time I use rapid shots is if im in a situation where I need to move and hsm or rail shot is not off cd. Ideally I would use my tso,ps,fm,tm,hsm, rail shot combination if it is up giving me a considerable amount of maneuverability.

    sorry for double post but easier to do on phone.

  15. #1095
    If you're using your abilities efficiently, you will build up heat quite rapidly requiring Rapid Shot usage. Not having to utilize Rapid Shots mean you're either skipping a proc or not using abilities on cooldown, or just waiting to cast something. Another reason could be that you have a lot of unnecessary movement resulting in heat dissipation while not casting.

    I do know that the picture indicates not to double dip, but that is more or less a rough screenshot I did not feel like editing. If you want to read further, then one will see that double dipping is necessary.

    Crit Reaction is only a 50% chance to proc, but that means you will crit on 1 our of 2 hits. Rapid Shots hits about 4 or 5 times, so you will get CR to proc. The same goes with Unload. The more you cast, the more uptime CR has and the more your abilities can utilize it- plus the more you cast, the higher APM you will receive. Vent Heat is a nice GCD to have, but a lot of us use it for a DPS increase. Being able to go full out at the start of a fight and using Vent Heat ~80 allows us to do a very large amount of DPS before we start to drop off into the priority rotation. Most fights I start off around 4700 DPS because of this, but end up ~2700/2800 because of the drop off.

  16. #1096
    Ok lets not turn this into you don't know how your class works argument. Yes I was referring to the screenie and I most definitely have read the full guide. Simply pointing out that the screenie is out of date or incorrect.

    I have logs up on torpase that can show my ability execution. Using rs to proc crit reaction is not optimal as its a drop in dps when I have big abilities that have a decent amount of chance to proc it.

    like I said im not saying that im better then anyone just that I don't have hea5 issue's forcing me to use rs.

    thats not to say that I dont use it. Sometimes it must be used for moving.
    Last edited by Maban; 2013-06-28 at 01:41 AM.

  17. #1097
    I don't think anyone posting in this thread is using vent heat at heat 40.

    Now, Rapid Shots. Here is a log I did recently that I'm pretty happy with:
    http://www.torparse.com/a/309101/tim...899/0/Overview

    I'm doing slightly above 35 attacks per minute and used 21 rapid shots total (which means 6 per minute roughly). I was balancing my heat fairly tightly in that parse, and used TSO on cooldown and ramped up heat to somewhere between 70-80% before venting. So if I'm not using rapid shots, there's no way I can sustain that rate of APM. Those seconds of not spending heat has to come from somewhere. So either I'm using rapid shots some, or I do nothing, which would lower my dps in comparison.

    It's easy enough to do the math. Heat dissipates at a rate of 5 per second. We lose an additional 8 heat every 6 seconds. So for any given minute we naturally get rid of 380 heat. That's over 40 global cooldowns. We can probably jam 6 unloads in at those GCDs, and 4 railshots. The rest will be abilities that cost 16 (unload does as well, but occupies two gcds).

    So working with only core abilites, over 40 GCDs we'd spend (6 * 16) + (4 * 10) + (16 * 16) = 520 heat. True, Electro Net, TSO + Fusion Missile and Vent Heat will help alleviate some of that, but not even those abilites add up to 140 heat every minute. Replacing 6 tracer missiles with rapid shots would lower heat spending with 72 heat, which would bring us a lot closer to where we want to be.

    (you could possibly get in one more unload when running more tracer missiles, the number 6 comes from my parse where I was using rapid shots, so misisng out on one proc probably compared to only running TMs).

    Now alacrity. I didn't factor it in initially because it complicates things and I'm not sure about the exact formulas used. But what it basically does is reduce your cast times and increases natural heat dissipation by the same percentage. What it does not do is reduce the internal cooldown on Terminal Velocity, the cooldown on Vent Heat, or the cooldown on any of our other abilities. So while it does let us get more attacks in and does buff our natural heat dissipation, our relative heat regeneration will still suffer from alacrity, since anything based on cooldowns will be used less frequently (if you compare number of attacks in between usage instead of time).

    So in summary, if we're going all out, we need about 9-10 seconds each minute where we're not spending heat to keep a decent balance. If you're not using rapid shots for this, those seconds come from somewhere else, be they lag or waiting ever so slightly after a tracer missile cast to see if unload procs before activating the next ability, or several other factors.

    All this is based on the new 4-piece set bonus by the way, if you're running the old one you get away with fewer rapid shots.

  18. #1098
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiem4aDr3am View Post
    Hey pizza I recently switched in 2 crit enhancements...75 crit surge and 75 acc/crit on boots. I have actually noticed about 50-100 dps increase from straight power. Me likey 114 crit rating.
    Yeah I stopped trading out crit for power when I hit about 100 as well cuz I feel naked without crit and it's suiting me just fine as well. All the 75s I've gotten so far have been crit, sitting at 367 right now and that's overboard but it simulates better than the 72 power ones so for now it will have to do lol. I think 240 crit will be the goal for 75s just based on Keren simulator. That's just 2 mods and 2 enhances which I already have so will fill the rest with power when SV nim comes out.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 01:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Keren View Post
    75 BIS seems to have an optimal setup of 5 pices of acc, 3 pieces of surge, 2 pieces of alacrity. [odawgg]

    crit reaction is nice though, but you have only a 50% chance on crits, which dont happen that regulary. Furthermore after the fix about 2pc/2pc usage. However, the following statement means excactly those talent builds with points in both alacrity talents:
    Woah wait a minute lol. The simulator does show optimal as 2pcs of alacrity, and not that I think alacrity is bad cuz it's not, I'm just not convinced it's optimal in a live situation for a variety of reasons I've already expressed in the past. I will be testing it though once I get another alacrity piece.

    The testing I did for crit reaction showed a 70-75% uptime and will result in an average of just over 3% total alacrity from talents if you double dip so I use that option.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 01:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maban View Post
    I have logs up on torpase that can show my ability execution. Using rs to proc crit reaction is not optimal as its a drop in dps when I have big abilities that have a decent amount of chance to proc it.

    like I said im not saying that im better then anyone just that I don't have hea5 issue's forcing me to use rs.

    thats not to say that I dont use it. Sometimes it must be used for moving.
    If you wouldn't mind linking a parse or let us know a toon name to lookup, then we can compare, otherwise it's impossible to have a discussion on it. I'm on my phone so too hard for me to do but I'll post mine in addition to Mattias and then we can compare techniques.
    Last edited by odawgg; 2013-06-28 at 08:35 AM.

  19. #1099
    Quote Originally Posted by Maban View Post
    Ok lets not turn this into you don't know how your class works argument. Yes I was referring to the screenie and I most definitely have read the full guide. Simply pointing out that the screenie is out of date or incorrect.

    I have logs up on torpase that can show my ability execution. Using rs to proc crit reaction is not optimal as its a drop in dps when I have big abilities that have a decent amount of chance to proc it.

    like I said im not saying that im better then anyone just that I don't have hea5 issue's forcing me to use rs.

    thats not to say that I dont use it. Sometimes it must be used for moving.
    This wasn't a "who knows more" comment. I was simply commenting to certain aspects of your post with the appropriate answer, which is why this thread exists in the first place.

  20. #1100
    Hey fellas, I noticed this in the 2.3 patch notes on PTS, does this solve the relic issue that is supposedly 'working as intended' as told to us by a dev?

    Arkanian, Underworld and Kell Dragon Proc Relics will no longer prevent other Arkanian, Underworld and Kell Dragon Procs of a different type from activating. For example, characters can now have both a Power proc relic and a damage proc relic equipped and expect them both to activate correctly.

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