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  1. #1121
    Quote Originally Posted by Maban View Post
    http://www.torparse.com/l/264406

    not trying to be over the top with my spaces but doing this on my phone so best having more spaces and having it work lol
    oh I forgot about this lol...If you got a dummy parse that would be best....pretty difficult to compare boss fights, too many variables. Unless Thrasher is in there I'll check

    Edit: actually it is but u were on sniper duty so that one can't be compared, try and get a dummy one and we'll compare those

    Another Edit: Ok so for now I’ll use Cartel Warlords since that fight is decently comparable. I’ve trimmed mine down to when I kill the last boss and yours down to the same length as mine for comparison. Another thing to keep in mind is I’m using the 2pc/2pc set bonus in this parse so I should theoretically be using 2 more rapid shots/min than yourself if you’re using the old 4pc with -8 heat to rail shot.

    Link: You
    Link: Me

    Ok so first, the good thing I see is that you’re very aware of the cds on HSM and Rail Shot and using them right away. Where we differ is here:

    Your APMs: 31.58 Mine: 33.13

    1.5 APMs in itself would not lead to significantly different parses, but if you look further you’ll see that 4 of your Tracer Missiles were cancelled to use your proc’d unload. Torparse incorrectly counts those in APMs. Also I use 4 DFAs and 2 more unloads than you. So in order to compare our APMs we have to factor all that in, so removing 10 abilities from the 4.4 min parse gives your relative APMs as 29.3 compared to my 33.13.

    So now we see that in reality I’m getting in 4 more GCDs worth of damage per minute than you’re getting. I don’t have time to show you all of them, but if you look closely at your log from the link above, search ‘gains barrage’ and jump to all of those. For each of them, look at how much time was between the last TM you activated before the barrage and the unload you activated after the barrage. I see anywhere from 2.1 – 2.9 seconds on just about all of them. 2 seconds would be tolerable as long as you’re not losing time when you ‘do not’ proc barrage. It’s evident you’re either pausing and waiting for barrage or double casting TM and cancelling if barrage procs. Double casting and cancelling can be an efficient way to fish for barrages, but pausing is not good. Reason is, you’re gonna have a delay between abilities regardless of if you proc barrage or not, whereas by double casting/canceling method will only have a delay when barrage does proc. But keep in mind you really have to be on the cancel quick to avoid long delays. I personally don’t use that method cuz it takes more focus and keystrokes/mouse clicks but it’s very doable.

    In the end what I’m getting at is those delays you are having between abilities is allowing you to dissipate more heat and use less rapid shots but lowers your overall dps. You’ll see I used more than 5 additional rapid shots/min than you did and it only should have been 2. So I’m basically getting 3 more rapid shots plus 1 of something else, likely TM or ½ an unload extra every minute…that adds up in the dps.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by galdaran View Post
    With the upcoming change to the relics meaning that relic of serendipitous assault can be used with a DD relic such as Cerulean Nova which of the DD relics are the best to use.

    I ask this as before I was aware of the bug I had a DD relic which was a force dmg (by accident) when I purchased a Cerulean Nova relic and tested on the Ops dummy I noticed something strange...

    The force dmg relic did work (not using with RoSA and hit for something around 225 If I remember correctly, however the proc from the Cerulean Nova was only hitting for around 195.

    Both were tested on the ops dummy at lvl 55 on the fleet. and both claimed to do 255 dmg (I Think as testing was done some time ago)

    I assume that the reduced damage if from mitigation by the mob but if the bosses mitigate Tech dmg more than force damage surely that's the better relic to go for, or maybe one of the other relics will be better still.


    Look forward to your input
    If you could actually link the parses and list exactly which relics they are then we can take a look...most of us don't have spare relic tokens lying around to test for ourselves and may never have tested the one you're talking about when we did have tokens.
    Last edited by odawgg; 2013-07-10 at 06:30 AM.

  2. #1122
    Just a check to see how i'm progressing. In gear only available from FP's & Basic coms + 2 clears of SM S&V (I only got gloves zzz) i'm sitting at 2531dps on the ops dummy. It seems low but I seem to be out-dpsing the better-geared commandos in our guild. Most of my mods are 66/69 and I do not have the new 2pce yet. Thoughts?

  3. #1123
    Quote Originally Posted by Cortic View Post
    Just a check to see how i'm progressing. In gear only available from FP's & Basic coms + 2 clears of SM S&V (I only got gloves zzz) i'm sitting at 2531dps on the ops dummy. It seems low but I seem to be out-dpsing the better-geared commandos in our guild. Most of my mods are 66/69 and I do not have the new 2pce yet. Thoughts?
    You are definitely doing things right if you are parsing ~2500 in 66/69s. A few Mercs on our roster (not necessarily raiders) don't pull that much and they're mostly 69s/72s.

    All I can say is keep it up. I honestly don't have any tips to give since I don't know exactly what you're doing, but achieving those numbers (assuming its over a 5 minute period) does indicate you are progressing in the right direction. Just keep up the good work!

  4. #1124
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    You are definitely doing things right if you are parsing ~2500 in 66/69s. A few Mercs on our roster (not necessarily raiders) don't pull that much and they're mostly 69s/72s.

    All I can say is keep it up. I honestly don't have any tips to give since I don't know exactly what you're doing, but achieving those numbers (assuming its over a 5 minute period) does indicate you are progressing in the right direction. Just keep up the good work!
    Cheers for the encouragement. It feels good to play the Commando again. Here's the log if you are interested:
    http://www.torparse.com/a/333416/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

    Oh and on that - I have a couple of questions

    1) At the moment I have left in 2x 61 armorings for the 2pce set bonus (I don't do ops currently so I cannot access the new 2/4pce). Is the old 2pce worth it over the gain of say 2x 69 armorings? (26 aim gain vs 15% crit on Grav)

    2) Because I do not have the new 2pce bonus I have left my spec as 5/36/5. Do you think I would see a gain from going 6/36/4?
    Last edited by Cortic; 2013-07-12 at 12:11 AM.

  5. #1125
    The 2-piece set bonus will more than compensate for the loss of aim. Also note you van no longer use 2-piece from both new and old set, so you'd want either new or old 4-piece eventually. They give about the same dps, so go for the one you can get the easiest.

  6. #1126
    Ok what am I doing wrong?

    /a/335432

  7. #1127
    What is your current gear level?

  8. #1128
    Quote Originally Posted by odawgg View Post

    If you could actually link the parses and list exactly which relics they are then we can take a look...most of us don't have spare relic tokens lying around to test for ourselves and may never have tested the one you're talking about when we did have tokens.
    http://www.torparse.com/a/336250 I think this is the correct log unfortunately I no longer have the relics due to being some time ago but I think they were

    Arcanian relic of the cerulean Nova - 30% chance to do 322 Tech Damage. (I believe this to be energy Surge which deals 251 energy Damage)

    VS

    Dread Guard relic of elemental trancendance - 30% Chance to do 210 dmg. (i Believe this to be Burning force in the logs which hits for 210 Elemental Damage)

  9. #1129
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    What is your current gear level?
    Mostly 30's and 31's
    Aim: 3298

    Bonus Damage: 970.6
    Acc: 99.51%
    Crit: 22.57%
    surge: 70.27%
    Last edited by DeMann; 2013-07-13 at 07:51 PM.

  10. #1130
    Quote Originally Posted by DeMann View Post
    Mostly 30's and 31's
    Aim: 3298

    Bonus Damage: 970.6
    Acc: 99.51%
    Crit: 22.57%
    surge: 70.27%
    If I can comment on this, your stats are significantly better than my own yet your parse was a good 250dps lower (see the post above your original one).

    The main difference here is APM - Attacks Per Minute. Now i'm not sure where you live but I live in Australia and play with a constant 300-400ms which is not conducive to doing great dps. But you need to spam buttons more. I did 33 APM over 5 minutes and you did only 26. What that means is that every minute of combat i'm fitting in an extra 7x Grav/Demo/FA/HiB's which adds up. Try adjusting your ability action queue window in combat settings and practice spamming your keys before abilities are ready. Personally with the latency I play with I just continually spam Grav Round and if Full Auto procs then I do a quick sidestep to cancel the Grav Round cast and then start channelling Full Auto.

  11. #1131
    Personally with the latency I play with I just continually spam Grav Round and if Full Auto procs then I do a quick sidestep to cancel the Grav Round cast and then start channelling Full Auto.
    With the ability queue timer, you could hit Full Auto in the middle of your Grav Round cast then hit Grav Round right at the end of the cast. If Full Auto procs, then it will use Full Auto- if it doesn't proc then Grav Round will just be cast.

  12. #1132
    Quote Originally Posted by Forsedar View Post
    With the ability queue timer, you could hit Full Auto in the middle of your Grav Round cast then hit Grav Round right at the end of the cast. If Full Auto procs, then it will use Full Auto- if it doesn't proc then Grav Round will just be cast.
    Unfortunately for some people and the latency they get, even with the ability queue this method isn't practical, they will constantly interrupt unload etc. The double cast > step out method is the counter to it.

  13. #1133
    Quote Originally Posted by odawgg View Post
    Unfortunately for some people and the latency they get, even with the ability queue this method isn't practical, they will constantly interrupt unload etc. The double cast > step out method is the counter to it.
    It just was something for them to try to see if the latency can handle it. I know when my ISP was having issues, it still worked fine for me.

  14. #1134
    Odawgg is right. Either two things happen if I continue to cast:

    1) 2x grav rounds will go off delaying a FA proc
    2) FA will get interrupted the instant it starts to cast - or worse halfway between casts.

    Full Auto is the only ability where I have to actually wait and see that last tick go off before I start to cast my next ability. Everything else I just spam and dubstep if procs happen.

  15. #1135
    Ouch, that is terrible I couldn't imagine playing in that environment.

  16. #1136
    Quote Originally Posted by galdaran View Post
    http://www.torparse.com/a/336250 I think this is the correct log unfortunately I no longer have the relics due to being some time ago but I think they were

    Arcanian relic of the cerulean Nova - 30% chance to do 322 Tech Damage. (I believe this to be energy Surge which deals 251 energy Damage)

    VS

    Dread Guard relic of elemental trancendance - 30% Chance to do 210 dmg. (i Believe this to be Burning force in the logs which hits for 210 Elemental Damage)
    You were on the combat dummy for all but the last 3 encounters in that link the Cerulean Nova is the one that says Energy Surge, it did 284 damage per tick on the Combat Dummy and 251 on the Operations Dummy. The other one you tested did 210 elemental damage on the Combat Dummy....284 vs 210 CN wins.

  17. #1137
    Quote Originally Posted by DeMann View Post
    Mostly 30's and 31's
    Aim: 3298

    Bonus Damage: 970.6
    Acc: 99.51%
    Crit: 22.57%
    surge: 70.27%

    Quote Originally Posted by Cortic View Post
    If I can comment on this, your stats are significantly better than my own yet your parse was a good 250dps lower (see the post above your original one).

    The main difference here is APM - Attacks Per Minute. Now i'm not sure where you live but I live in Australia and play with a constant 300-400ms which is not conducive to doing great dps. But you need to spam buttons more. I did 33 APM over 5 minutes and you did only 26. What that means is that every minute of combat i'm fitting in an extra 7x Grav/Demo/FA/HiB's which adds up. Try adjusting your ability action queue window in combat settings and practice spamming your keys before abilities are ready. Personally with the latency I play with I just continually spam Grav Round and if Full Auto procs then I do a quick sidestep to cancel the Grav Round cast and then start channelling Full Auto.
    DeMann, your gear is pretty close to 72-level BiS, so you *should* be getting higher parses. What I notice from your log is that you have a delay after the activation of Unload and Tracer Missile until you activate the next ability in your rotation.

    With your gear I guess that you have 1.44'' cast time for Tracer Missile and 2.88'' channel time for Unload. These are the optimal delays you would want to have between the activation of the ability (Unload or TM) and the activation of the next ability. To be more realistic you need to be as close as possible to 3'' for Unload and definitely below 2'' for TM.

    Looking at your parse, you spend around 3.5'' (some more, some less) after each Unload and more than 2'' on TM. These need to be shortened if you want to achieve higher parses. I know it is not easy and *I* am struggling with it most of the time. Check and try to apply the suggestions given by people here. See what fits your playstyle and computer latency.

    To get an idea of close-to-optimal reaction time check odawgg's parse on TORParse (top for Mercs on training dummy).

    - - - Updated - - -

    @DeMann

    Also you are not using Rapid Shots at all. This is an indication that you are not "giving it all". No matter how efficiently you manage your heat level (as an Arsenal Merc), if you are spaming your abilities you *will* get overheated and you *will* have to use Rapid Shots at certain points.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @All

    About heat management ...

    EN is our less costly ability, so shouldn't it always be used (when off CD) regardless of the heat level? Especially for situations where we are above 24 heat and thus Unload (our optimal "heat per second" ability) would push us beyond 40, EN seems to me like the way to go. If I am below 40, I will practically use it off CD.

    On another matter, I was always wondering why should we use TSO with FM. Or why use FM at all, apart from the opening rotation or if Vent Heat is (or coming soon) off CD. In situations where I am struggling to keep my heat as low as possible while activating high-damage abilities, it makes to me much more sense to use TSO with HSM. This ability hits *hard* but it has the worst "heat per second" ratio (apart from FM), so getting a heat-free HSM when heat is a problem seems the best course of action. The damage gained by FM does not justify spending such a usefull CD like TSO on it.
    Last edited by Leefty; 2013-07-15 at 11:22 AM.

  18. #1138
    HSM has the same "heat per second" cost as tracer Missile, the only difference being one is front loaded while the other happens at the end of a cast. So using HSO with HSM is basically the exact same thing as using it with TM.

    By using HSO with Fusion Missile, you're replacing a TM with FM that hits significantly harder.

  19. #1139
    I'll 2nd what Mattias said on TSO, FM hits hard, it's just not worth 25 heat... Which makes it perfect for TSO cuz it's an ability that wouldn't otherwise be used. HSM is already relatively heat efficient. You can experiment if you are not convinced but I can vouch for FM to be the highest dps usage for TSO.

    In regards to EN usage, it should be used on cd just behind Rail Shot and HSM on the priority list (so 3rd on list since those are 1&2). As long as you're following proper heat priority rules leading up to it you shouldn't have to worry about where your heat is at to spam it.
    Last edited by odawgg; 2013-07-15 at 08:36 PM.

  20. #1140
    Quote Originally Posted by odawgg View Post
    You were on the combat dummy for all but the last 3 encounters in that link the Cerulean Nova is the one that says Energy Surge, it did 284 damage per tick on the Combat Dummy and 251 on the Operations Dummy. The other one you tested did 210 elemental damage on the Combat Dummy....284 vs 210 CN wins.
    Yes when you look just at the damage the CN wins, However the relics were not of equal tier look again at the relics max available damage and you will see that even with the combat dummy the CN damage was being mitigated from 322 down to 284 where as the ET relic was hitting for its full damage unmitigated.

    Relics listed below for comparison

    Arcanian relic of the cerulean Nova - 30% chance to do 322 Tech Damage. (I believe this to be energy Surge which deals 251 energy Damage)

    VS

    Dread Guard relic of elemental trancendance - 30% Chance to do 210 dmg. (i Believe this to be Burning force in the logs which hits for 210 Elemental Damage)

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