Expertise, really?

[Choptimus]

Oh please, don't even BOTHER with your ret pally whining.

You CAN counter dodge by attacking from behind, sorry if you can't manage to do so. Hunters don't even have the option, how are we supposed to be behind the target when we are +20 yards away?

How do you attack a rogue/feral from behind when they have a better snare than you and move faster than you?

Regardless, hunters are actually fine in PvP right now. Rogues/Ferals/Mages/Shaman and Ret in tripple DPS is the problem.

[Cyph3r]

I was talking about PvP.

The dodge change is actually a VERY BIG DEAL in PvP. PLAYERS can't dodge from behind. Making us need 15% hit for PvE would solve the stat disparity without having retarded side effects. Dodge isn't a mechanic that is designed to work on a ranged class because of the facing requirements.

It would only partially solve the disparity, as there's still the issue of all that expertise on mail gear. I'm fully aware this has PvP ramifications, but changes have to be made with both PvP and PvE in consideration.

I would also like to point out that we haven't yet reached the balancing phase of testing, Ghostcrawler said as much. This means that PvP on the beta right now is bound to be a little broken. We've pointed out to Blizzard that the dodge change presents several possible issues in PvP, they're aware of it. Compensations will be made in the balance phase.

[Aertea]

I main as Enhancement

We have to cap Expertise and SPELL Hit

So quit yer bellyaching :-P

This post is clearly about PVP in MoP. Which forces us to take into account the two following facts:

The shaman rating requirement doesn't apply to PVP.

The shaman rating requirement is being fixed in MoP.

In short: stick to your own boards.

[hshot]

i love how people compare one spec to a whole class ....

[Preston Maxtor]

Dumb change.

They should keep some variety in the game

Of course, when that variety means your class has less fun tax unlike everyone else.

[bandet]

Of course, when that variety means your class has less fun tax unlike everyone else.

Isn't fine when we have it the best, but when we are soon to have it the worst, by having to deal with a positional mechanic that NO OTHER RANGED CLASS in the game has to deal with.. Oh sure, THAT is fine.

Bias much?

[Deleted]

as a rogue can i just say HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

evasion says hello

[bandet]

as a rogue can i just say HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

evasion says hello

That makes me wonder if they are going to change it.

Otherwise, lol @ evasion's bonus to ranged miss stacked with dodge?

I mean, it isn't the first time they didn't update something in regards to hunters. Roar of recovery is still 30% of our focus, when it used to be 30% of our mana.



Dev 1: Hey, lets remove spell pen for casters in PvP!
Dev 2: Yeah that is great, my frost mage can stack more mastery!
Dev 3: Wait, that would inadvertently buff hunters, they could get some benefit out of it!
Dev 2: *GASP*
Dev 1: NEVER!!! MAKE THEM STACK EXPERTISE!!!
Dev 3: Brilliant, now we don't even have to design GEAR for them anymore, YOU ARE A GENIUS!

[Deleted]

That makes me wonder if they are going to change it.

Otherwise, lol @ evasion's bonus to ranged miss stacked with dodge?

Plus evasion is on prep now, not sure if the evasion glyph will still exist but we would be untouchable for like 30 seconds in rogue v hunter duels haha. Even though Rogue PvP has been gutted I might buy MoP just for that

[Deleted]

Should be freaking time. All hunters needed to do is get to the soft-hitcap and then they could gem full agility/mastery... This pissed me off, specially seeing hunters with 23% crit in Bastion of Twilight while I was rolling 16%

Us warriors had to balance expertise and hitrating... rediculous

[Dave131]

This post is clearly about PVP in MoP. Which forces us to take into account the two following facts:

The shaman rating requirement doesn't apply to PVP.

The shaman rating requirement is being fixed in MoP.

In short: stick to your own boards.

With all due respect, I will happily post wherever the f**k I please. ALL of these "boards" are my boards, just like they're yours too.

I'd also like to point out the fact that several of the posts I've read up to this one have been about PVE, NOT exclusively PVP

Point is, I think its perfectly fair and reasonable for Hunters to be taxed in a similar way to the REST of the classes.

[bandet]

Point is, I think its perfectly fair and reasonable for Hunters to be taxed in a similar way to the REST of the classes.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. However, you can't honestly say that a ranged class having their attacks dodged makes any sense when you consider the fact that the only way for a player to counter the dodge mechanic in PvP is to attack from behind.


Besides, we are talking PvP after all, all the classes have 5% hit requirement there. Spell pen is being removed, so why then do casters only need to have 5% hit, while everyone else needs 5% hit AND expertise?

[matters]

Just because as a class you didn't use a stat in the past does not mean it is dumb to have it implemented in the future. I can see that in the fantasy world of WoW that a powerful creature or boss can actually dodge an arrow, if they can dodge a rogue swinging two daggers at lightning speed then why can he/she dodge your arrows? Sure that may be a dumb comparison but hey not all things are going to be the way you want them to be. I remember when hunters were complaining about a little thing called 'focus' and why it is going to totally ruin the class and quite possibly the game as a whole. Sorry for all the negativity i just can not see why having to get to an expertise cap AND a hit cap is such a disturbing concept.

Rogues, Enhance Shaman and practically every other melee class have to cap two secondary stats, some even have it so bad that they have to get expertise capped and also get to spell hit cap without much help from +hit talents.

[bandet]

Just because as a class you didn't use a stat in the past does not mean it is dumb to have it implemented in the future. I can see that in the fantasy world of WoW that a powerful creature or boss can actually dodge an arrow, if they can dodge a rogue swinging two daggers at lightning speed then why can he/she dodge your arrows? Sure that may be a dumb comparison but hey not all things are going to be the way you want them to be. I remember when hunters were complaining about a little thing called 'focus' and why it is going to totally ruin the class and quite possibly the game as a whole. Sorry for all the negativity i just can not see why having to get to an expertise cap AND a hit cap is such a disturbing concept.

Rogues, Enhance Shaman and practically every other melee class have to cap two secondary stats, some even have it so bad that they have to get expertise capped and also get to spell hit cap without much help from +hit talents.

Again, no one is debating that hunters needed more stats to need.

We are saying that dodge as a mechanic is not made to work for ranged attacks. The only way to counter dodge in PvP is not available to hunters because we use ranged attacks. I cannot be expected to run behind a target every single time they face me, while I am 20 yards away. What do I do? Run 40 yards to be on the other side of them? Oh, wait.. they just turned again.

[Deleted]

I don't think anyone disagrees with this. However, you can't honestly say that a ranged class having their attacks dodged makes any sense when you consider the fact that the only way for a player to counter the dodge mechanic in PvP is to attack from behind.


Besides, we are talking PvP after all, all the classes have 5% hit requirement there. Spell pen is being removed, so why then do casters only need to have 5% hit, while everyone else needs 5% hit AND expertise?

Beat me to it, I was thinking the exact same.
Expertise for hunters makes no sense unless they are planning on revamping one of our specs into a melee heavy spec.
If they had to make it more difficult for hunters to balance it along with other classes, make the hit requirement higher, don't incorporate expertise into the hunter class, I mean come on, how does that make any sense what so ever?

Mana to focus, I could deal with. But expertise? No, just no.
I'm not arguing that hunter's doesn't need to max a secondary stat or maybe even get a higher amount of hit than others. But not expertise. While it might make perfect sense that you need expertise with bows/guns/xbows - That's not how the mechanic works and then you just turn it into a weapon skill, which was removed for a good reason.

I really hope Blizzard doesn't go through with this. But they probably do.

[Itisamuh]

They should just roll hit and expertise together into one stat. It is so ridiculous to have to stack two separate stats to achieve the same thing. Or just remove both stats altogether and make every class deal with having a chance to miss, be dodged, etc.

[bandet]

They should just roll hit and expertise together into one stat. It is so ridiculous to have to stack two separate stats to achieve the same thing. Or just remove both stats altogether and make every class deal with having a chance to miss, be dodged, etc.

I think that would be the best, just have hit add expertise bonus. Solves all the gearing problems, makes a lot of melee classes be less punished, and doesn't have to deal with any retarded mechanics.

[GrieverXIII]

Well considering they were finally getting rid of spell pen for hunters, they had to put another dumb shit in its place.

/Shrug.

[bandet]

Well considering they were finally getting rid of spell pen for hunters, they had to put another dumb shit in its place.

/Shrug.

Pretty much.

Lol @ having us have to cap spell pen AND invest 2 talent points to make our spells unresistable, while everyone else has to cap spell pen only... simply because they were too lazy to change an obsolete talent.

That pretty much sums up hunters in a nutshell.

[Deleted]

Besides, we are talking PvP after all, all the classes have 5% hit requirement there. Spell pen is being removed, so why then do casters only need to have 5% hit, while everyone else needs 5% hit AND expertise?

They won't. The way it will work is
Melee + Hunters need 5% hit and 5% Expertise.
Casters need 10% hit.

It is still exactly the same amount of points of itemization required to make moves hit.