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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by kalo View Post
    dont know if i missed something but since when does a boss dodge value increase once he turns? that would be parry and shots cannot be parried. the only issues we have with dodge is that ferals and rogues might gain huge dodge values through agility. to me mop is a godsend from a hunters pov.

    in pve we get:
    selfheal
    -15% dmg taken through iron hawk
    better scaling through hawk/hunters mark
    baseline marked for death
    the cool awesome pet stuff like stampede and ferocity specc for my beloved pig
    bm viability through ranged kill command/pet aoe
    viability of expertise for our specc (yes this is a positive change)
    cd free traplauncher

    in pvp we get:
    baseline -15% dmg, or shorter cd on det
    baseline readiness/silencing shot/wyvern sting
    stuns
    knockbacks
    removal of our min range
    cd less trap launcher


    and alot more i forgot...


    seriously, how much more could anyone want... ever?
    We want fixed abilities, and scaling improvements - it's overdue, it's coming, but it doesn't mean we will be vastly superior since other existing classes have it all right now anyway. A class' quality of life should be fair - mentioning baseline silencing shot is a poor example because every class has a form of interrupt/silence that doesn't need to be talented.

    Stuns, knockbacks are all present in every other class too, with certain other classes having much better ones, i.e. Rogues with the new paralytic poison and Warriors with an AOE knockback effect. As for us, ours are all on lengthy CDs, such as binding arrow which isn't going to be groundbreaking or revolutionary,

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by zugzug View Post
    I dont think even you understand what you are saying. Melees go behind bcoz of the parry, not the dodge. They add dodge for hunters, not parry. Aslong as you got the exp, you can stay w/e you want. As i pointed out, this is done to equal the ratings for melee hit + exp = spell hit = hunters hit + exp.
    There is a world outside of raids, you know.

    Players can dodge from behind. Bosses can't.



    Of course, this has already been explained 5 times in this thread.

  3. #103
    Bloodsail Admiral Kanariya's Avatar
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    Necessary change, and removing the minimum range is just compensation. I feel as if this change will be really good for low-level pvp brackets too.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by bandet View Post
    Because axes travel slower than arrows, ergo it is easier to dodge?




    Now, I am not saying the fact that hunters only needed 8% hit while everyone else needed so much more wasn't stupid, but making hunter shots dodgeable is just a completely retarded thing to do.

    Think about it, how does a melee counter dodge? They attack from behind. How does a hunter counter dodge? We.. uh.. well, I am 40 yards away. I guess I just have to hope the enemy backpedals towards me while I kite?

    They just aren't thinking about hunters in PvP, as usual.
    Melee counter Parry by attacking from behind, they can still dodge from behind. That's why melee needs the exp dodge cap, to be able to attack from behind without getting dodged.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanariya View Post
    Necessary change, and removing the minimum range is just compensation. I feel as if this change will be really good for low-level pvp brackets too.

    Okay, so we are making every other ranged classes dodgeable too because THEY can shoot in melee?

    No, we aren't. Because that is stupid and the two aren't even related.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by FenrisUy View Post
    Melee counter Parry by attacking from behind, they can still dodge from behind. That's why melee needs the exp dodge cap, to be able to attack from behind without getting dodged.
    You obviously need to remember that we're not THAT much different since our shots can still be blocked, particularly in PvE. It may not be the same as parrying, but positioning still matters to an extent for us too.

  7. #107
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bandet View Post
    There is a world outside of raids, you know.
    Players can dodge from behind. Bosses can't.
    Of course, this has already been explained 5 times in this thread.
    Bosses can dodge from behind. The whole reason melee get expertise capped is because of dodge. When you have enough expertise you will not get dodged regardless of whether you attack from in front or behind.
    Bosses cannot parry from behind.
    Ranged attacks from hunters can only be dodged, they can not be parried. This means that in a PvE situation you do not need to worry about any facing requirements once you reach the same amount of expertise as the melee do.
    It is important to note that ranged shots cannot be blocked (I saw someone below say that they could). Blizzard has said that ranged attacks will only be dodgeable, they will not be able to be parried.

    In a PvP situation players can not dodge or parry from behind. This means that if a melee can always be behind a target in PvP (they try, doesn't always happen) then they technically do not need any expertise. This is not usually the case though, and melee typically get the (dodge) expertise cap in PvP from when they have to hit the target from the front.

    So to re-cap
    PvE: Hunters and melee will need the same amount of hit and expertise: Melee have to attack from behind to stop attacks being parried, hunters do not. Attacks will not be dodged regardless of where the melee stand.
    PvP: Hunters and melee will get the same amount of hit and expertise: Melee will be parried if attacking from in front, hunters will not.

    The only concern you should currently have is against classes which have a higher than normal dodge chance. Melee can negate this by going behind the player where as you can not. If you were stating concerns like that constructively then Blizzard may listen, but it seems like the vast majority of this thread are QQin for the sake of QQin and don't actually understand the changes. That doesn't mean there are not people in this thread with valid concerns because there are, they are just being drowned out by those moaning for the hell of it.
    Last edited by mmoc3ece278ef7; 2012-04-23 at 08:12 PM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    Bosses can dodge from behind. The whole reason melee get expertise capped is because of dodge. When you have enough expertise you will not get dodged regardless of whether you attack from in front or behind.
    Bosses cannot parry from behind.
    Ranged attacks from hunters can only be dodged, they can not be parried. This means that in a PvE situation you do not need to worry about any facing requirements once you reach the same amount of expertise as the melee do.
    It is important to note that ranged shots cannot be blocked (I saw someone below say that they could). Blizzard has said that ranged attacks will only be dodgeable, they will not be able to be parried.

    In a PvP situation players can not dodge or parry from behind. This means that if a melee can always be behind a target in PvP (they try, doesn't always happen) then they technically do not need any expertise. This is not usually the case though, and melee typically get the (dodge) expertise cap in PvP from when they have to hit the target from the front.

    So to re-cap
    PvE: Hunters and melee will need the same amount of hit and expertise: Melee have to attack from behind to stop attacks being parried, hunters do not. Attacks will not be dodged regardless of where the melee stand.
    PvP: Hunters and melee will get the same amount of hit and expertise: Melee will be parried if attacking from in front, hunters will not.

    The only concern you should currently have is against classes which have a higher than normal dodge chance. Melee can negate this by going behind the player where as you can not. If you were stating concerns like that constructively then Blizzard may listen, but it seems like the vast majority of this thread are QQin for the sake of QQin and don't actually understand the changes. That doesn't mean there are not people in this thread with valid concerns because there are, they are just being drowned out by those moaning for the hell of it.

    So I had it backwards, w/e. I got it right the last 4 times I said it.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    you forgot to point out how other casters´ hit cap is approximately twice as high as hunters´.
    except its actually LOWER in pvp.

    i dont care about pve. they can raise our hit cap to 15%, i dont care.

    what i'm not happy about is having a string of steady shots getting dodged by some rogue and getting completely focus starved, and being basically screwed.

  10. #110
    Stood in the Fire Volbian's Avatar
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    I dont know what all the crying is about. Expertise if going to affect all ranged, even casters. There's no more spell hit.

    •Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.
    •Ranged attacks will be able to be dodged

    So if ranged attacks can be dodged, that means if affects casters too.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Volbian View Post
    I dont know what all the crying is about. Expertise if going to affect all ranged, even casters. There's no more spell hit.

    •Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.
    •Ranged attacks will be able to be dodged

    So if ranged attacks can be dodged, that means if affects casters too.
    expertise will give casters HIT. they still cant be DODGED

    pvp as a hunter will be terrible because our main resource generating ability can be dodged. rogues/ferals get 80% of their energy refunded if they get dodged. their combo points do not get used up if finishers get dodged. warriors lose the rage if they get dodged, but they get a cheap, undodgable attack in return, and have several rage generating abilties. i dont play a DK, i'm not sure if they get runes refunded for a dodge, but it does not stop their rune regeneration in anyway.

    my point is, melee classes are designed around the idea that they can be dodged. they have mechanics in place to compensate or reduce the impact. they (generally) have superior snares and stuns to aid them in getting behind a target. hunters dont. hunters cannot get behind a target when they're at range. AND, our snare is now going to cost focus, which just snowballs the problem.
    Last edited by asharia; 2012-04-24 at 06:50 AM.

  12. #112
    Stood in the Fire Syfy's Avatar
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    Imo this is stupid but meh, hopefully it'll make hunters more of a challange to play lol

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Syfy View Post
    Imo this is stupid but meh, hopefully it'll make hunters more of a challange to play lol
    http://thumbs.newschoolers.com/index...g&size=600x564

    Infracted. Meme images are no-no.
    Last edited by Asrialol; 2012-04-24 at 01:44 PM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    what i'm not happy about is having a string of steady shots getting dodged by some rogue and getting completely focus starved, and being basically screwed.
    I agree that this whole dodge mechanic needs attention, but doesn't steady shot regenerate focus on cast not on hit?

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-24 at 08:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Volbian View Post
    I dont know what all the crying is about. Expertise if going to affect all ranged, even casters. There's no more spell hit.

    •Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.
    •Ranged attacks will be able to be dodged

    So if ranged attacks can be dodged, that means if affects casters too.
    You don't understand the change. Spell hit still exists. Expertise gives BOTH spell hit AND expertise. This is so classes like enhancement shamans can reach both the melee and spell hit cap without requiring more rating than everyone else.

  15. #115
    Expertise is only going to affect hunter ranged attacks.

    Because blizzard likes double-standards in regards to hunters.

  16. #116
    Stood in the Fire Theleklol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanis View Post
    On beta, I fought a Rogue and missed three Steadys after missing a Chim. It's a good thing there were other people around, or I'd have been a dead man. Being dodgeable is awful. It stings especially bad because we're the only Agility class that can't dodge worth shit.
    You're also the only agility class that can attack from 40 yards away.
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  17. #117
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bandet View Post
    I don't think anyone disagrees with this. However, you can't honestly say that a ranged class having their attacks dodged makes any sense when you consider the fact that the only way for a player to counter the dodge mechanic in PvP is to attack from behind.


    Besides, we are talking PvP after all, all the classes have 5% hit requirement there. Spell pen is being removed, so why then do casters only need to have 5% hit, while everyone else needs 5% hit AND expertise?
    You're a hunter complaining about lack of sense because of dodge? That makes me laugh so hard

    Here's an example of what really doesn't make sense :
    - you're a hunter trying to shoot someone on a mount that is just within your range
    - you push the button right as your target starts to move away as fast as possible
    - regardless of where that person goes to he'll always get hit, he can even be 2000 yards away, the arrow will still hit just because the attack started at 40 yards distance

    Putting dodge into this example will actually put some sense back into the game.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    Bosses can dodge from behind. The whole reason melee get expertise capped is because of dodge. When you have enough expertise you will not get dodged regardless of whether you attack from in front or behind.
    Bosses cannot parry from behind.
    Ranged attacks from hunters can only be dodged, they can not be parried. This means that in a PvE situation you do not need to worry about any facing requirements once you reach the same amount of expertise as the melee do.
    It is important to note that ranged shots cannot be blocked (I saw someone below say that they could). Blizzard has said that ranged attacks will only be dodgeable, they will not be able to be parried.

    In a PvP situation players can not dodge or parry from behind. This means that if a melee can always be behind a target in PvP (they try, doesn't always happen) then they technically do not need any expertise. This is not usually the case though, and melee typically get the (dodge) expertise cap in PvP from when they have to hit the target from the front.

    So to re-cap
    PvE: Hunters and melee will need the same amount of hit and expertise: Melee have to attack from behind to stop attacks being parried, hunters do not. Attacks will not be dodged regardless of where the melee stand.
    PvP: Hunters and melee will get the same amount of hit and expertise: Melee will be parried if attacking from in front, hunters will not.

    The only concern you should currently have is against classes which have a higher than normal dodge chance. Melee can negate this by going behind the player where as you can not. If you were stating concerns like that constructively then Blizzard may listen, but it seems like the vast majority of this thread are QQin for the sake of QQin and don't actually understand the changes. That doesn't mean there are not people in this thread with valid concerns because there are, they are just being drowned out by those moaning for the hell of it.
    You have it backwards, melee get 26 expertise to be parry capped. You don't attempt to reach the dodge cap with expertise. This is why tanks get EXP capped so they don't parry the boss and the reason melee attack from behind.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by dahmer View Post
    You're a hunter complaining about lack of sense because of dodge? That makes me laugh so hard

    Here's an example of what really doesn't make sense :
    - you're a hunter trying to shoot someone on a mount that is just within your range
    - you push the button right as your target starts to move away as fast as possible
    - regardless of where that person goes to he'll always get hit, he can even be 2000 yards away, the arrow will still hit just because the attack started at 40 yards distance

    Putting dodge into this example will actually put some sense back into the game.

    That happens with EVERY SINGLE RANGED ATTACK IN THE GAME.

    It isn't a hunter thing. So if you are trying to "reason" hunters getting dodged to this completely retarded example, then logically you would have to demand every ranged class to be dodgeable too, otherwise you are bias against hunters.

    Good luck with that.

  20. #120
    I don't mind the added RNG of being dodged. Once we are fully hit capped and expertise capped it won't be noticed as much as it is right now not being capped. What bother me the most about this change is that when an attack gets dodged, we loose out not only on the dmg from that shot, but also the focus. I would like to see blizzard add into the game resource refund system, even if it's just 80% of the shot's cost, when a shot is dodged so we don't completely miss out on the dmg potential of that shot and have other options like casting an arcane shot to make up for the loss of that critical explosive shot or cobra shot missing.

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