Expertise, really?

[bandet]

The change is actually a benefit for hunters.

Hunter stats will be tuned around the idea that hunters will need to use part of their stat budget on expertise. Forcing you to get the expertise cap isn't going to keep you from getting "enough" of your other stats, just like forcing you to get enough hit doesn't gimp you.

Not only that, but now hunters will be able to get full use out of all of the stats on any piece of agi gear.

If you calm down and think rationally, you'll see that this can't be bad.


Thought experiment time: If they said that hunter attacks never missed and were never dodged, we wouldn't need hit or expertise. Would that make us overpowered? No, because we'd get tuned to make up for not needing those stats in our budget. Overall nothing would really change (other than having a bunch of useless stats on shaman gear that, being huntards, you'd roll on anyways).

The problem rears its ugly head in PvP, NOT PvE, as has been said 546 times in this thread. Please keep telling us things we already know, and calling us huntards. Helpful.

---------- Post added 2012-05-09 at 04:07 AM ----------

The thing is, with us having more accuracy stats to balance around, they can get rid of our negative critical chance, and boost our scaling. We've always scaled either way too well, resulting in nerfs, or practically not at all between tiers. Hopefully we'll see less of that with this change.

They're trying to bring the hunter class in line rather than having them be unique in a completely broken, nonsensical manner. Hopefully they'll do it right. We won't really know until we hit 90 in beta. I'm concerned, but that doesn't mean I'm going to assume GC is just being an asshole.

I don't see the point. We would just get more crit anyways since that is our best stat, so the only thing that would change is that we have to get more expertise, and that we become shittier in PvP.

Wouldn't be any different than simply making us have a higher hit cap in raids, and thus removing the negative penalty.

[Chrysia]

I don't see the point. We would just get more crit anyways since that is our best stat, so the only thing that would change is that we have to get more expertise, and that we become shittier in PvP.

Wouldn't be any different than simply making us have a higher hit cap in raids, and thus removing the negative penalty.

It isn't any different than if they had made an expertise to hit conversion thing. They didn't feel like coding that, though. You can view it as lazy or whatever, the fact of the matter is this is the direction they are going. The full impact will be seen at 90, and like I said, I'm concerned about it. We could be even worse against rogues and ferals than we already are. We'll see, and we'll see if GC holds up his end. I'm not going to go in assuming they'll do nothing.

[bandet]

It isn't any different than if they had made an expertise to hit conversion thing. They didn't feel like coding that, though. You can view it as lazy or whatever, the fact of the matter is this is the direction they are going. The full impact will be seen at 90, and like I said, I'm concerned about it. We could be even worse against rogues and ferals than we already are. We'll see, and we'll see if GC holds up his end. I'm not going to go in assuming they'll do nothing.

We are still waiting on GC to "hold up his end" from WoTLK beta.

Don't hold your breath.

[Sarevokcz]

easy solution, make ranged dodge not scale with agi like melee dodge, make it baseline whatever 7,5% and only let temporary buffs like Evasion to boost ranged dodge

[Oatz]

Ultimately makes gearing more interesting from gameplay perspective.

[Illana]

easy solution, make ranged dodge not scale with agi like melee dodge, make it baseline whatever 7,5% and only let temporary buffs like Evasion to boost ranged dodge

that's not easy at all, you would have to create a whole new stat then and that's changing core game code

i say scrap expertise for hunter's completely, it's unneeded and not innovative and doesn't make gearing more interesting or gameplay more interesting it just makes it more difficult to gear. Ask any enhance shaman now especially with the DW weapons without secondary stats.

[Chrysia]

that's not easy at all, you would have to create a whole new stat then and that's changing core game code

i say scrap expertise for hunter's completely, it's unneeded and not innovative and doesn't make gearing more interesting or gameplay more interesting it just makes it more difficult to gear. Ask any enhance shaman now especially with the DW weapons without secondary stats.

The main reason it's difficult for shamans to gear is they have to "share" armor with a class that doesn't use one of their stats. That is a big part of what Blizzard is trying to fix with this. My idea still feels like the best solution that Blizzard will likely adopt. A range check, very similar to the positional check already in place, that adjusts dodge based on range.

[Tzzentch]

Because axes travel slower than arrows, ergo it is easier to dodge?




Now, I am not saying the fact that hunters only needed 8% hit while everyone else needed so much more wasn't stupid, but making hunter shots dodgeable is just a completely retarded thing to do.

Think about it, how does a melee counter dodge? They attack from behind. How does a hunter counter dodge? We.. uh.. well, I am 40 yards away. I guess I just have to hope the enemy backpedals towards me while I kite?

They just aren't thinking about hunters in PvP, as usual.

yeah true but 40 yards is a fair distance, while right in fucking front of you is not.
in terms of reaction time you're pretty much sitting around the same.

however it is more likely that someone will dodge an arrow but just moving in a different direction to the way the hunter was leading than a dagger stab will be dodged by some supernatural pre-cognition.

if it bothers you that much then just stand behind your targets, then you won't need any exp in pvp, if rogues can do it surely hunters can too right?

[Chrysia]

yeah true but 40 yards is a fair distance, while right in fucking front of you is not.
in terms of reaction time you're pretty much sitting around the same.

however it is more likely that someone will dodge an arrow but just moving in a different direction to the way the hunter was leading than a dagger stab will be dodged by some supernatural pre-cognition.

if it bothers you that much then just stand behind your targets, then you won't need any exp in pvp, if rogues can do it surely hunters can too right?

Wait, what? Staying behind an enemy while trying to maintain range, because even with no dead zone, we won't want to stand in melee getting wailed on with our piss poor dodge, is not equatable to staying behind an enemy while standing practically inside them.

[bandet]

All of this arrow dodging talk is getting really old, really fast.



You people DO realize that hunters CAN in fact use GUNS right? Go try to make a logical argument on bullet dodging and when you realize you can't, and how stupid it is, get back to me.

[Chrysia]

All of this arrow dodging talk is getting really old, really fast.



You people DO realize that hunters CAN in fact use GUNS right? Go try to make a logical argument on bullet dodging and when you realize you can't, and how stupid it is, get back to me.

Ok, I'm sorry, but try to make a logical argument for blocking a fucking dragon. Or drop this silly shit.

[bandet]

Ok, I'm sorry, but try to make a logical argument for blocking a fucking dragon. Or drop this silly shit.

I was never making the realism argument. I was pointing out how STUPID it was. Just so you know.

[Skygoneblue]

You people DO realize that hunters CAN in fact use GUNS right? Go try to make a logical argument on bullet dodging and when you realize you can't, and how stupid it is, get back to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc4cBiSXoCs

[psoodkel235]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc4cBiSXoCs

thats a win, bosses obvious can dodge a bullet

[bandet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc4cBiSXoCs

See, I said logical.


If a rogue did that, he would be breaking game rules, and thus hacking. So he would get banned for dodging bullets.

They should have thought of that in the matrix. Stupid robots, just ban the hackers.

[Illana]

yeah true but 40 yards is a fair distance, while right in fucking front of you is not.
in terms of reaction time you're pretty much sitting around the same.

however it is more likely that someone will dodge an arrow but just moving in a different direction to the way the hunter was leading than a dagger stab will be dodged by some supernatural pre-cognition.

if it bothers you that much then just stand behind your targets, then you won't need any exp in pvp, if rogues can do it surely hunters can too right?

yes because hunters have a slow applied on auto attacks, 15% base increased movement speed, a 70% sprint on a 1minute cd, shadowstep and short cd stuns

are you even slightly serious?

[bandet]

yes because hunters have a slow applied on auto attacks, 15% base increased movement speed, a 70% sprint on a 1minute cd, shadowstep and short cd stuns

are you even slightly serious?

Oh, and their slow applied on auto attacks is 20% more potent than other slows.

[Neidrah]

yeah true but 40 yards is a fair distance, while right in fucking front of you is not.
in terms of reaction time you're pretty much sitting around the same.

however it is more likely that someone will dodge an arrow but just moving in a different direction to the way the hunter was leading than a dagger stab will be dodged by some supernatural pre-cognition.

if it bothers you that much then just stand behind your targets, then you won't need any exp in pvp, if rogues can do it surely hunters can too right?

Lol that's clearly the stupidest answer I've seen in this post lol.

It's not the same reaction time at all... Have you ever used a bow and arrow in your life? You can barely see the arrow when it's in the air, its speed is like 300+ feet per sec (almost a third of the speed of sound...). There's no way in hell you could dodge it. It could miss, for sure but no way to dodge it. And it's even more true with guns or course.

Whereas with any melee weapon, you can actually learn how to fight someone that has a knife IRL in self defense classes or whatever. It's a well known fact that you can disarm/parry/dodge someone who's trying to stab you. Nothing crazy about that. Not saying it's easy but obviously it's possible and you don't need "supernatural pre-cognition" for it as you can see the arm moving. But you certainly can't see an arrow/bullet moving, 40 yards or not, and neither do you know when the guy shooting at you is gonna release the string/pull the trigger.

And about standing behind your targets, are you serious? Almost thought you were trolling when I read that. Have you ever played hunter in pvp? Do you really get to stand behind your target at any time? "if rogues can do it surely hunters can too" loool Epic.

[bandet]

They don't realize that you don't actually dodge the melee weapon, you dodge the person.

You anticipate where the weapon will be swung by their movement, position and shift of weight, before it is even swung. You don't actually dodge the swing, you would be too slow. You start dodging before they actually swing.

So no, you can't dodge bullets because there is much, much, less to let you know where it will be coming to dodge.