Binding shot - Severely "Lacking in Luster"

[bil]

Ones good against melee, the other is good against casters. This is a little something called "options"
I don't see an issue here.

One is a 20 second CD and ones a 90 second CD, that's a pretty major difference if you ask me. Feel free to take whatever you like but I don't think it's competitive at all right now. Hell, I'd take Wyvern Sting anyday over what binding shot currently looks like.

[cFortyfive]

He was worried about hunters being stacked in raids because of this, despite the fact that other classes already have this mechanic, in a manner which would be much better for the named purpose.

Yes and I was simply implying that both a three minute cooldown crit damage increase by 20% for 10 seconds and a 15% spelldamage increase for yourself are both a bit weaker than the proposed effect of the shot which I at least think was also the point the person you quoted was trying to make.

[bandet]

Well the purpose isn't really to be a raid buff.

[redsunrising15]

This ability is better than ring of frost in every way, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Binding Shot has a lower cooldown, has no ramp-up time, doesn't break on damage, and can be force-stunned by a knockback, which you have (glyphed) and mages don't.

[bandet]

This ability is better than ring of frost in every way, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Binding Shot has a lower cooldown, has no ramp-up time, doesn't break on damage, and can be force-stunned by a knockback, which you have (glyphed) and mages don't.

First off, no one even mentioned ring of frost, so I indeed don't know what YOU are talking about. We were talking about shadowfury.

However, just so you know...

Ring of Frost
2.0% of base mana 30 yd range
1.5 sec cast 30 sec cooldown
Summons a Ring of Frost at the target location. Enemies entering the ring will become frozen for 10 sec. Lasts 10 sec. 10 yd radius.

Cooldown of 30 seconds is quite a bit lower than 1.5 minutes. Also, the CC ring of frost provides lasts over twice as long, and does not break on one damage, even if it does break. Also, your argument that an ability is better when we use two abilities, the second ability requiring a glyph... Well, I should HOPE so. Would be pretty pathetic if using two of our control abilities at once was worse than a single mage ability (despite the fact that many times that actually is the case).


It is entirely debateable whether or not ring of frost is better, however we were talking about shadowfury, and how much LoL binding shot has

[redsunrising15]

and ring of frost did for mages

you mentioned it

Ring of Frost
2.0% of base mana 30 yd range
1.5 sec cast 30 sec cooldown
Summons a Ring of Frost at the target location. Enemies entering the ring will become frozen for 10 sec. Lasts 10 sec. 10 yd radius.

I don't know where you're getting your info from. The cooldown is and always has been 2 minutes, and it doesn't have a cast time. It does break on damage, any damage.

And I'm not saying we need to use two abilities to get into competition with RoF, however, we can make it significantly better with those two abilities.

[eschatological]

In MoP RoF has a 30 second CD, glad you're keeping up with your own class. That's the relevant context for comparing binding shot.

[redsunrising15]

In MoP RoF has a 30 second CD, glad you're keeping up with your own class. That's the relevant context for comparing binding shot.

Well mages aren't my class, but if you're going to compare Binding Shot to something like shadowfury, you also need to take into account it's an area-control ability in addition to its stun. It can shut down a whole area for up to 8 seconds if you toss it in, wait a bit, then throw an explosive trap on to trigger the stun.

[eschatological]

And again, that requires two of our abilities to go on cooldowns (explosive trap being a 24 second CD) to achieve a minimal "gain" which doesn't outweight the immediate (longer) stun/interrupt of shadowfury on the shorter CD. Sure, they can move in that area right AFTER the shadowfury, but I don't know of an arena map where "controlling" the middle of the platform on Nagrand arena or the boxes on Dal sewers will be so vital. At best it'd be comparable to the control offered by RoF in those places, except that RoF is on a much shorter CD.

[bandet]

Well mages aren't my class, but if you're going to compare Binding Shot to something like shadowfury, you also need to take into account it's an area-control ability in addition to its stun. It can shut down a whole area for up to 8 seconds if you toss it in, wait a bit, then throw an explosive trap on to trigger the stun.

Except no one is going to wait in there to avoid a 3 second stun.

"Zomg, I am totally going to wait longer than 3 seconds to avoid getting a 3 second stun, that makes TONS of sense"


ESPECIALLY when they know we can simply knock them back whenever they want, so they will go ahead and take the stun asap because it will likely be inevitable. You really don't know how this PvP stuff works.

[redsunrising15]

Except no one is going to wait in there to avoid a 3 second stun.

"Zomg, I am totally going to wait longer than 3 seconds to avoid getting a 3 second stun, that makes TONS of sense"


ESPECIALLY when they know we can simply knock them back whenever they want, so they will go ahead and take the stun asap because it will likely be inevitable. You really don't know how this PvP stuff works.

1. It's psychological, people WILL wait out the arrow because they wouldn't know if you'd have glyphed explosive trap or not. Ring of Frost is the same way, you don't see people intentionally jumping into the ring if they know they don't have to.

This ability is more like RoF than Shadowfury. Shadowfury is a lock's only combat CC and it needs to be talented, much like both Ring of Frost and Binding Shot. Hunters have the single-target Intimidation. They have Fear/Poly, we have Scatter Shot and trap.

I'm not saying scatter/trap is better than a good fear any day of the week, but the number of abilities we have available outweighs the ones other classes do. Therefore it would make sense for other classes to have slightly stronger versions of our abilities.

(I'm not saying the fact we need to use so many abilities to get the same effects as others who use less abilities is a good thing....)

[bil]

This ability is better than ring of frost in every way, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Binding Shot has a lower cooldown, has no ramp-up time, doesn't break on damage, and can be force-stunned by a knockback, which you have (glyphed) and mages don't.

Ring of frost has much more utility than binding shot:

- Keeping a flag from being taken or keeping melee off while taking a flag. Try throwing a binding shot on a flag in AB and see what happens... Even if you throw in the knockback, the target(s) just has to trinket and run back

- Protecting allies from melee. Same deal

- Controlling a choke point on the map

So binding shot can do these things just not nearly as good as RoF. The only advantage binding shot has is it will cause an actual stun if triggered somehow (which requires a knockback from somewhere or the targets to actively trigger it by running out) but I'd rather have an 8 second aoe cc that breaks on damage over a 3 second aoe stun

[Coalex]

They really need to put the pvp stun back to 5secs for a 1.5min CD. Or keep it for 3sec and back it 45secs cd just like throw down. What hunter would choose BS over Silencing shot? Its a pretty terrible ability right now.

[bandet]

This ability is more like RoF than Shadowfury. Shadowfury is a lock's only combat CC and it needs to be talented, much like both Ring of Frost and Binding Shot. Hunters have the single-target Intimidation. They have Fear/Poly, we have Scatter Shot and trap.

Intimidation is BM only.

RoF is an aoe CC, Binding shot is an AoE stun. Binding shot has the same effect as shadowfury, but it is worse.

Why are you still arguing that ring of frost, and ability with a THIRD of the cooldown of binding shot, that does OVER TWICE the duration in CC is worse?
You can use 3 ring of frosts for every binding arrow.

Despite ANY of the other advantages it has, that simple fact alone makes it better.

And no, ring of frost does NOT break on one damage. It takes ~10k damage.

[redsunrising15]

my bad, I was unaware the cooldown for Ring of Frost got mega-buffed, I was thinking current model.

[malbojia]

my bad, I was unaware the cooldown for Ring of Frost got mega-buffed, I was thinking current model.

Its ok a lot of people speak before thinking when speaking of Hunters,I'm quite sure AFFX will be flapping his gums again after the crusade he led during Cata beta that left hunters in the miserable state they are now.

Will we take steps to adjust hunters if they continue to be weak in Arenas? Yes. This is absolutely a concern of ours. To some extent my reputation is on the line here because I keep trying to assure players that we will make adjustments, and I know you’ll throw it back in my face if we don’t deliver. The game has only been out for a few days though, so it’s just premature to make sweeping changes yet. I realize some knowledgeable hunters are convinced the changes we made were not enough. At the end of the day though, it is us, not the players, who need to make decisions about game design. We will always listen to your feedback when making our decisions though.-GhostcrawlerNov 14, 2008

I ask you to find a statement by a lead developer concerning your class such as this and find your class in a state almost as bad off if not more so.

Also this just in Hunters will excel in rated battlegrounds LMFAO...

[bandet]

Its ok a lot of people speak before thinking when speaking of Hunters,I'm quite sure AFFX will be flapping his gums again after the crusade he led during Cata beta that left hunters in the miserable state they are now.

Will we take steps to adjust hunters if they continue to be weak in Arenas? Yes. This is absolutely a concern of ours. To some extent my reputation is on the line here because I keep trying to assure players that we will make adjustments, and I know you’ll throw it back in my face if we don’t deliver. The game has only been out for a few days though, so it’s just premature to make sweeping changes yet. I realize some knowledgeable hunters are convinced the changes we made were not enough. At the end of the day though, it is us, not the players, who need to make decisions about game design. We will always listen to your feedback when making our decisions though.-GhostcrawlerNov 14, 2008

I ask you to find a statement by a lead developer concerning your class such as this and find your class in a state almost as bad off if not more so.

Also this just in Hunters will excel in rated battlegrounds LMFAO...

That quote is EXACTLY why Blizzard has no credibility.

They were right, their reputation was on the line, and they didn't deliver, so it got thrown back in their face.

So when people tell me that "MoP will fix it" or "Blizz will fix it", I just tell them to literally shove it. Sorry to say, but the evidence, based upon past events, is that no, they WON'T fix it.


So far, nothing in MoP has led me to believe otherwise.