My Personal Disappointment....

[DrakeWurrum]

So, I just want to share my thoughts on this, because sometimes people just need to get things said to stop focusing on it so much...and I want to see if other people have been feeling the same way.

Am I the only one disappointed at how few skills we have access to at any given time?

For example, Demon Hunter... I choose between Piercing, Entangling, and Bola Shot... and swapping between the two (which isn't easy to do mid-combat, that's my biggest complaint) applies a long cooldown to the left-click spell.
Then I also choose between... I think it was shuriken toss, rapid fire, and chakram... with the same swapping restrictions as above.

Without even touching on the other 4 skill slots, am I the only one who dislikes how restrictive that is? Wouldn't it be more fun to be able to swap on the fly between any of the attacks through some kind of keybind, perhaps similar to how you swapped between different weapons in Metroid Prime? With rune selection being what's locked in, rather than weapon choice?

What if I could keep Shuriken Toss with the stun rune, and Rapid Fire with the withering rune? I could keep Rapid Fire as my favorite one, and then swap to Shuriken Toss in those rare moments where you just need a single-target stun.

Or what about Vault vs Preparation? Maybe it's just because I only have two skill slots using Discipline at level 13, but without Vault, I don't really care for Preparation. That's minor though, I think. I could except the "utility" skills being more restrictive choice-wise, if I could just have freedom of choice in what attack to use from moment to moment, with the only locked-in choices being runes.

I do find the game fun, and I fully expect the later acts and higher difficulties to prove to be truly challenging, but I just feel... highly restricted in my choice of playstyle.

[Deleted]

Whilst you can't switch between skill sets as quickly as you'd seem to like - are you aware that you can in fact set any skills into the keybinds available? You do not have to use the "primary" "secondary" "defensive" groups that are set as guidelines. If you go into the options and tick "elective mode", you have free reign to put ANY skill into your keybinds. I would hope that this makes you feel less restricted in your choice of playstyle.

You will however be locked into a "build" more at level 60; since then the Valor buff comes into play, and you lose all stacks of your buff when you switch your skills. At this stage, you're going to want to choose a lot more carefully and I'm guessing that almost everyone will be choosing a custom build and not blizzards "primary" "secondary" groups once they hit level 60.

[chadwix]

Elective mode, check that box.

The cd on the skill is only a factor with like the witch doctors rabid dogs and other spells with a 1 min cd. It has been lowered in in the past couple beta's


"You will however be locked into a "build" more at level 60"

I expect builds to change based on the bosses were fighting in inferno.

[DrakeWurrum]

Whilst you can't switch between skill sets as quickly as you'd seem to like - are you aware that you can in fact set any skills into the keybinds available? You do not have to use the "primary" "secondary" "defensive" groups that are set as guidelines. If you go into the options and tick "elective mode", you have free reign to put ANY skill into your keybinds. I would hope that this makes you feel less restricted in your choice of playstyle.

Yes, I recently became aware of that, but I still feel... ridiculously restricted. This should make builds more varied, and like I said, I don't so much care about the 1-4 slots being restricted, as I'm annoyed by how restricted my primary/secondary attacks are. Are you saying I'd be able to apply primary/secondary attacks to the 1-4 slots too? That's nice, but that would also mean having less of the other skills.

Are you aware that in D2, you would bind skills to F1-F8, and could use the scroll wheel to scroll through them? Actually, I don't remember all the specifics of how it worked. I can't remember if we could push the F1-F8 keys separately to have 10 total skills.

You will however be locked into a "build" more at level 60; since then the Valor buff comes into play, and you lose all stacks of your buff when you switch your skills. At this stage, you're going to want to choose a lot more carefully and I'm guessing that almost everyone will be choosing a custom build and not blizzards "primary" "secondary" groups once they hit level 60.

Ew, so in other words, Blizzard wants you to not swap skills a lot? Why are they working so hard to restrict gameplay?
I honestly would prefer skill-swapping be standard and even expected, but for runes to be where builds vary.

No wonder people are constantly saying they feel like they're on rails. :|

[Strah]

No.

In fact, i find the ability to change skills outside of town anti-fun.
I'm glad changing skills would remove the nephalem valor buff.

[Deleted]

Are you aware that in D2, you would bind skills to F1-F8, and could use the scroll wheel to scroll through them?

My dirty confession is that although I played D2 fairly extensively, it was at the beginning of release for about a year only, and I don't really remember a lot of the little details like keybinds (memory goes with age :P), so I can't really offer any insight on a comparison between the way D2 did it and D3.

Ew, so in other words, Blizzard wants you to not swap skills a lot?
I honestly would prefer skill-swapping be standard and even expected, but for runes to be where builds vary.

It seems from the valor buff that yes, they want you to keep the skill set you've got if you care about a good chance of getting loot, and let's face it, that's what we're likely to care about... here's the blizzquote on it

Nephalem Valor is one of the major new systems in Diablo III and it kicks in at level 60. Keep in mind that this is still in testing and we’re still working out the details. Here’s how it currently works internally: Rare and Champion packs already have great loot on them. By killing a Rare or Champion pack, not only do you get their loot, but you’ll also receive a buff granting you increased magic find and gold find. However, if you change a skill, skill rune, passive, or leave the game, the buff disappears. As an extra reward, if you kill a boss while this buff is active, you’ll receive extra loot drops from that boss.

The exact amount of magic find and gold find provided by the buff is still being reviewed, as is the amount of extra loot you get from a boss while the buff is active. We’re also playing around with whether or not the buff stacks, what the duration should be, and whether or not it should persist through death. We want to make sure the buff is strong enough to make staying in your current game more rewarding than creating a new game. At the same time, if the buff is too strong, it risks making shorter play sessions feel not worthwhile.

We expect this system will encourage players to stick with a skill build of their choice, select an area of the game they enjoy, and sweep it for rare and champion packs on their way to a boss, finishing off a run with a boss that’ll be worth killing. If you wanted a shorter play session you could be done at that point, but if you have more time, the path of least resistance would ideally be to stay in the same game and make your way towards the next boss.

So if that system goes into live the way they've outlined it, it does seem like they don't want us swapping builds all over the place.

[Dacomp89]

They want there to be some permanence to which skills you choose, but it'll only be relevant within a single game, and only if you want the stacking MF buff (which you probably do). Every time you want to change to a different quest area or act you can change skills based on what you think you'll need. They state this here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4241234476 . I too was a fan of swapping skills around a lot, but a lot of other people were complaining that there was no permanence to your choices of skills. 6 viable skills is more than you had in Diablo II, where you typically focused on 2-3 strong attacks. Choosing which 6 skills you like and you think will be the most effective at any time is a definitive part of the gameplay.

[Deleted]

Are you aware that you can in fact set any skills into the keybinds available? You do not have to use the "primary" "secondary" "defensive" groups that are set as guidelines. If you go into the options and tick "elective mode", you have free reign to put ANY skill into your keybinds. I would hope that this makes you feel less restricted in your choice of playstyle.

I was not aware, and now things got a lot more interesting. Thanks for that one.

Sincerely yours, a Diablo scrub.

[Wildmoon]

Elective mode, check that box.

The cd on the skill is only a factor with like the witch doctors rabid dogs and other spells with a 1 min cd. It has been lowered in in the past couple beta's


"You will however be locked into a "build" more at level 60"

I expect builds to change based on the bosses were fighting in inferno.

and you will lose valor buff which will reduce your chance to get a good item and with +specific skill modifier it will even lock you into your build more. It's their intention to force you to make a hard choice.

[Xenryusho]

In D2 we barely got any skills if we had auras of any kind. But the swapping was faster and the talent trees made me feel like the abilities I used were substantial, instead of just getting them and being done with how my character is different then yours. Graphics are beautiful, story is nice, fights are well designed, everythings great... But it doesn't feel like Diablo, and it's not something that gives me reason to keep playing.

[Deleted]

You didin't get to swap skills in d2 like you can do in d3. Think of the skill tree and not your keybinds on already selected skills.
One did not go around skill tree open and swapping skills mid way in combat, did they?
And as far as I know, the coodown on the skill swaping will be longer in higher difficulties (15sec?).

[chadwix]

and you will lose valor buff which will reduce your chance to get a good item and with +specific skill modifier it will even lock you into your build more. It's their intention to force you to make a hard choice.

Ya just saw that, will make it interesting. Not to give away my plan but i expect to farm certain monsters in spec a, then do other monsters in spec b. Moving all over the place, similar to how we farmed in d2.

I have a feeling for the first month or so in inferno we wont have a choice but to swap skills based on the monsters abilities. Until your overgeared (which is possible in inferno) i dont see how a cold wizard would be able to take down cold immune mobs.

Cant wait to see what they do with end game.

[DrakeWurrum]

You didin't get to swap skills in d2 like you can do in d3. Think of the skill tree and not your keybinds on already selected skills.
One did not go around skill tree open and swapping skills mid way in combat, did they?

That's kinda the point though. They essentially just removed the keybinds part of the game, and gave us only the on-rails skill tree.

It's frustratingly restrictive!
Like... I'm still having fun, and I never suggested the game would be "more challenging" by letting me have more skills at one time. But one of the main things Blizz has said they wanted to handle was the complaint that Diablo 2 was essentially a one-skill spamfest, right? I've read that from a blue poster somewhere...

So their solution was to lock us into a select few skills instead? O_o

[chadwix]

That's kinda the point though. They essentially just removed the keybinds part of the game, and gave us only the on-rails skill tree.

It's frustratingly restrictive!
Like... I'm still having fun, and I never suggested the game would be "more challenging" by letting me have more skills at one time. But one of the main things Blizz has said they wanted to handle was the complaint that Diablo 2 was essentially a one-skill spamfest, right? I've read that from a blue poster somewhere...

So their solution was to lock us into a select few skills instead? O_o

Elective mode, look in options and check the box

[Deleted]

I suppose they want you to think about your choices and make choices meaningful.

If you could swap instantly and basically have all skills at your disposal.. then there is no choice anymore. I like this more really, it makes you think about the run you want to do and what you might need.

[Deleted]

Yes, I recently became aware of that, but I still feel... ridiculously restricted. This should make builds more varied, and like I said, I don't so much care about the 1-4 slots being restricted, as I'm annoyed by how restricted my primary/secondary attacks are. Are you saying I'd be able to apply primary/secondary attacks to the 1-4 slots too? That's nice, but that would also mean having less of the other skills.

This is the whole idea behind D3 combat though, the fact that you can't get everything so need to make a sacrifice sometimes and pick what you like for your playstyle.

Also as someone pointed out before you get rewards for killing packs with same skills, so you'll be wanting to try and get a skillset that you like and will be rewarded with keeping this even though it might not be the optimal build for some packs. This means if you really want to then you can take say AoE skills and CC to deal with a pack which wont move around much and get a bonus for the next packs, however they might be teleporters so you have the choice of either swapping to better skills for the pack and lower your chances of items or play risky and have a harder time with higher chance for better items.

They're not forcing you to use set skills or to swap them all the time, they're giving you a choice. You can keep same ones for a harder time and more rewards or take the easier route with lower rewards.

[Quenchiest]

I feel the need to post this thread that fully compares and contrasts D2 game mechanics with D3 in threads like this. It's fairly enlightening to those that might have an issue with of the choices made with D3.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/top...1455085?page=1

[keRmis]

I suppose they want you to think about your choices and make choices meaningful.

If you could swap instantly and basically have all skills at your disposal.. then there is no choice anymore. I like this more really, it makes you think about the run you want to do and what you might need.

This. 10char.

[Alan1187]

Umm I remember in d2 everything being broken down into about 3 abilities. Such as a FB sorc. You tele, and cast FB. Trapsin, stun and cast traps. WW barb, tele WW or just WW, zealot zeal. Chargadin, charge, Blizz sorc blizz, Everything was centered pretty much around 1-2 abilities each. Yeah you picked a lot more things in the tree, but you didn't use them. I think the most Complex of them was Hammerdin, but that's because you switched your aura after teleporting.

So in D3 where we use 6 abilities pretty constantly, and having to design your build over what you expect to encounter seems to be better IMO.

[Wildmoon]

Ya just saw that, will make it interesting. Not to give away my plan but i expect to farm certain monsters in spec a, then do other monsters in spec b. Moving all over the place, similar to how we farmed in d2.

I have a feeling for the first month or so in inferno we wont have a choice but to swap skills based on the monsters abilities. Until your overgeared (which is possible in inferno) i dont see how a cold wizard would be able to take down cold immune mobs.

Cant wait to see what they do with end game.

Well, Blizz said that unique and champion monsters will be the best source for loot and you can't predict when they will come and what affix they will have(there are a tons of monster affixes) so you can't really prepare your build for them. You can't really switch skill in combat because of cd too. It all encourages you to make the best build as possible and stick with it. Blizzard already said that there won't be immune type like in D2 but there will still be high resistance type.

---------- Post added 2012-04-23 at 02:33 AM ----------

That's kinda the point though. They essentially just removed the keybinds part of the game, and gave us only the on-rails skill tree.

It's frustratingly restrictive!
Like... I'm still having fun, and I never suggested the game would be "more challenging" by letting me have more skills at one time. But one of the main things Blizz has said they wanted to handle was the complaint that Diablo 2 was essentially a one-skill spamfest, right? I've read that from a blue poster somewhere...

So their solution was to lock us into a select few skills instead? O_o

They want you to craft your build and have some sense of commitment with it. If you can use everything then everyone will be the same.