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  1. #41
    I couldn't disagree with the OP more. Hand of Sacrifice and Lay on Hands are basically two extra tanking cooldowns. The new Selfless healer/sacred shield are both easy to fit in without destroying your dps. Not playing to the full potential of your class reminds me of the paladins you would see running around in full warrior gear with mana pools of 2k back in vanilla. We called them retnoobs and everyone hated them.

    I'm thrilled with the greater emphasis on healing ability ret is getting. It's what I've been asking for since the start of BC. I was a 31 ret/20 holy back in vanilla. 20 holy was enough to be a full time healer. I'd wear my judgement/avengers and act as a full-on healbot. When there was a lull in healing, I'd macro to my ash'kandi and whack some things with seal of command. If healing looked like it was going to pick up, I'd macro back to my caster weapon/shield and go back to pure healing. I did this in both pve and pvp. Obviously I don't expect us to be able to fill a healers role on the fly. That was overpowered once you had the gear to support it(Tier 2.5 and an 80+ dps weapon).

    I'm 100% behind any attempt by Blizzard to bring some of that playstyle back. I've missed it.

  2. #42
    I remember reading a post about utility on the Priest forums once that I didn't forget; that same logic can be applied here for any move that a Retribution Paladin brings to a raid which doesn't openly increase his/her damage:

    "A good priest knows what Leap of Faith is. A great Priest uses Leap of Faith to overcome obstacles and save others."

    Want to go to a raid or dungeon and just whack away at the boss? Be my guest. Skill in this game isn't just about pulling high numbers though, it's about using the tools you have available in a way that requires quick thinking -- to overcome and succeed.

  3. #43
    In a game where PvP and PvE systems are mixed together you cant be surprised that you will have talents or tiers of talents which are not that much PvE oriented or directly not buffing your dps output in PvE. On the other hand PvE guys, you should really start to thing how you can use some utility tools in addition to "E.J. approved" dps rotations in order to make stuff easier for healers.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by UnderworldSoup View Post
    I remember reading a post about utility on the Priest forums once that I didn't forget; that same logic can be applied here for any move that a Retribution Paladin brings to a raid which doesn't openly increase his/her damage:

    "A good priest knows what Leap of Faith is. A great Priest uses Leap of Faith to overcome obstacles and save others."

    Want to go to a raid or dungeon and just whack away at the boss? Be my guest. Skill in this game isn't just about pulling high numbers though, it's about using the tools you have available in a way that requires quick thinking -- to overcome and succeed.
    You could argue that people should be doing their job, thus negating the usefulness of Leap of Faith.

  5. #45
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    You could argue that people should be doing their job, thus negating the usefulness of Leap of Faith.
    There could be mechanics that can't be avoided, and Leap of Faith (or any other reasonably applicable utility spell) could be just the thing to save whoever was unlucky enough to get smacked with whatever mechanic that was.

    "Doing your job" as you say doesn't negate the need for your utility, and you could even argue that "doing your job" involves proper application of your utility spells.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    the problem is more that i will forget to use it. i'm already almost a mediocre player, who struggles with even such simple automated tasks as keeping SnD up on his mut rogue (i once let it fall off on zon'ozz), or SW:P on his shadowpriest (both get refreshed by a main rotational move). I can react to procs decently well (like AoW or DP), but I suck at monitoring timers and cooldowns.
    I think it's rather narrow minded to think that Blizzard should design all the talent trees around your specific skill and play level. If you don't feel you are good enough to use the talent, that is fine, don't use it because you shouldn't really have to at the level of content you are running, but that doesn't mean Blizzard shouldn't have talents that help the higher skill level player. That said, if you play the game, you could try to incorporate the use of these talents into your skill set. It's really not that hard to learn to use your utility talents, just try adding them one at a time by watching for situations you can use them. When you get to MoP, run a couple of dungeons with special attention as to when you can use a tier 3 talent and try to work them in. Before you know it, it becomes second nature. Suddenly you'll find yourself saving someone in a sticky situation, which is a rewarding game experience all to itself.

  7. #47
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    you might be willing, but that doesn't mean everyone is willing. If I need to use one of these, things are going down the shitter anyway, and nothing that I can do will be able to stop that. so I might as well continue DPS'ing. i rarely use my utility, and i don't want anyone to expect me to do so. i'm even going to completely overhaul my bars in 5.0, removing anything that isn't DPS or personal survival related. If I wanted to use my utility, i would have rolled a healer.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-23 at 05:41 PM ----------



    I stand by my decision. I joined as DPS, which means I shouldn't compensate for the badness of the healers, either by throwing out heals, or using my utility. If they can't handle it without my help, they shouldn't be doing the content in the first place.
    I've joined as shadow priest to DPS yet again I spent 16 seconds every fight channeling my hymns. That's a DPS loss I shouldn't compensate for badness of the healers and their inability to manage their mana. If they can't handle it without help of my hymns/pom/shield here and there, they shouldn't be doing the content in the first place.


    EDIT: And the bolded part is the reason you will never get anywhere.

    Judging by your logic, using WoG on heroic spine when you are about to roll (hence there is nothing to DPS) is bad thing. Let the healers handle it. Judging by your logic using WoG in transition between platforms on madness (again nothing to DPS) is bad thing.

    If we apply your logic on other classes, warrior shouldn't use Rallying Cry, shadow priests shouldn't use hymns/shields/pom, balance and feral drudis shouldn't use innervate/tranq etc.

    That global cooldown which could be used on FoL, WoG or something else which will help your raid will do 50-100K DMG and at the end will do nothing.
    Last edited by Demetrion; 2012-04-24 at 04:03 PM.

  8. #48
    i've thought abit more about this, and i've come to some conclusions:

    1) one of the reasons i'm not using utility is because I don't have nearly enough keybindings for everything. hell, on some classes i already struggle to put just my DPS related stuff on (i got 1-5, F1-F4, A, E, W, F and 1 mouse button that i can reliably reach). I already need to use macros on some classes to make sure i can even put all my DPS abilities on my bar. and on my disc priest, i'm using so much that i don't even have room to keybind all my essential healing spells. I wish i could use my G1-G12 buttons on my keyboard as well (would make a lot of difference), but as they are now, they're linked to F1-F12 and I can't use them.
    2) i don't have the necessary reaction skills to be able to catch someone dying fast enough. even if I did have the keybinds to have that extra FoL on my bars, i'd likely miss the opportunity to save them.
    3) I've been falsely assuming all these years that i'm decent, when, in fact, i'm not. I'm going to take the conclusions i've made above and below to their logical followings, and reevaluate everything about my character.

    thank you guys for letting me see beyond the shroud that's in front of me.

  9. #49
    Protip: The new Talent system is not meant to have something for every situtation on every tier.

    All classes have a tier that doesn't add damage or badass abilities, but rather gives abilities that are for support or Survivability.

    Stop complaining.
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

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