The Hardest Decisions In WoW - MoP Ret PvP Talents - Post your builds explain why :)

[iadamson]

ITT: We post Ret PvP Talent builds, and explain why hopefully we share insight with others and provide some sort of guidance. As to what talents may have slightly more appeal for settle reasons.

15 - Pursuit of Justice
Closest thing to the original incarnation. Passive no buttons or cooldowns to worry about opportunities there for more speed as well.

30 - Fist of Justice
Nothings better then a stun in pvp. Brings the cooldown to 30 secs down from 1 minute. Increases range by 10 yds, this will help pin down those runners. Not only easier but more frequently too.

45 - Selfless Healer OR Sacred Shield
Seriously can't decide hopefully other posters will have insight on this. I liked having both of these in Wrath and I can't decide which one to part with. Both add to survivability. One thing to consider is silencing and just how effective Sacred Shield truly is.

60 - Hand of Purity OR Unbreakable Spirit
Can't decide here either. For me Clemency was easy to decide against because most Hands are on a sort CD as is. However having my Forbiddence spells up as frequent as possible could prove useful. Although one of the most annoying things that would force a bubble would be getting fully dotted up. Hand of Purity provides a good alternative to forcing the bubble cooldown.

75 - Sanctified Wrath
Pretty much don't know how useful any of the others are hopefully another poster will point something out. The advantages or draw backs of the other spells. I figure pop wings and spam wrath doesn't sound bad.

90 - Holy Prism
This spell best suits my play style pluse it adds an extra button in the initial burst rotation at the start of combat. Not only does it deal damage on a short cooldown but heals me as well. The other spells may take too long to detonate or the opposing player may anticipate the incoming damage and compensate with defensive cooldowns.

[BananaHandsB]

I can't for the life of me decide on some of them. Going to have to test em out for myself, but I'm enjoying my monk too much during the little free time I have to test out pally stuff extensively. Here's my opinions so far:

Tier 1: Pursuit of Justice or Long Arm of the Law: As nice as a "sprint" type ability would be, I spend most of my time in the heat of battle, and keeping myself in melee range is of the utmost importance. Having 1 CD to catch up to some1 once a minute or make a daring escape is really nice, but I think I would just feel gimped w/o having the passive movement speed increases. So I'm going to pass on speed of light, and likely take Pursuit of Justice, unless I find with a reduced judgement CD that Long Arm of the Law has amazing uptime.

Tier 2: Fist of Justice or Burden of Guilt: I don't think i can pass up having a slow for the first time in my ret pally career. Finally I can slow the cowards that try to run from battle and the annoying people who spend all their GCDs kiting me to no avail but wasting each others time. But at the same time a 6 sec stun on a 30 sec CD is undenyably awesome. Repentence is great and all, but it just doesn't measure up to the others. Really feel like repentance should be a base ret ability still.

Tier 3: Selfless healer or sacred shield: Selfless healer could be really nice, but I'm leaning towards sacred shield just remembering ret pvp back in the beginning of WOTLK and how much I used it, and how much it end up mitigating.

Tier 4: Clemency: While I'm tempted by the others, being able to actively reset CDs can make a big difference in pvp situations, making this talent the clear victor. Hand of purity seems not to last long enough to really be effective. Seems like their testing out a new ability-mechanic here and will likely need some tuning to be competitive. I could be wrong tho.

Tier 5: Sanctified Wrath: I guess with judgement giving holy power, Divine purpose is not as neccesary, but I'm still really going to miss that. Free 3 HP WOG and TVs in pvp can really make or break a fight. BUT sanctified wrath seems too good to pass up. HOW spam just sounds amazing. Having 20 sec with a powerful ranged attack...so hawt...although it might just encourage people to dispel it faster than they already do (EDIT: not dispellable atm!!)

Tier 6: Execution sentence: This is one of the few clear-cut ret pvp talent choices imo. The other two talents are too AoE based and will likely not do significant burst dmg b/c of that. This can also be used to heal, which is nice. And with a 10 sec warning before it hits, blizz can definitely tune to this hit HARD since it will be somewhat defendable if your paying attention (although you know most ppl won't).

EDIT: went ahead and wrote about em all

[Fhi]

Ooh. I'll bite. I pick this based on only running random pug BGs, and assuming the same spells other classes have on live (of course this isn't true, so my build will very likely change once I pvp long enough to recognize other classes' abilities):

15 - Speed of Light. Touch choice. I have always picked PoJ since I rolled a pally years ago. But in BGs where I am in and out of combat often, I probably lose HP more often to be able to keep it up. Toss-up between Speed of Light and Long Arm. On-demand sprint is nice though for that last few yards to the flag cap. Or running away. The cooldown is short enough that it'll be up when I need it.

30 - Burden of Guilt. For the first time we have a ranged snare. Can't see myself passing it up. Fist of Justice is nice but suffers from DR since other classes can stun and usually do without any coordination (unless stun abilities are greatly reduced across all classes). I may take Fist of Justice together with Long Arm, just so with both combinations I have a way to get to the enemy.

45 - Selfless Healer - Always loved Sacred Shield. Too bad it's dispellable. Selfless Healer would work on that full elite pvp gear healer/wrecking machine that I latch onto. Otherwise, it's a small heal for myself. Depending on numbers at 90.

60 - Unbreakable Spirit. I'm pretty bad at active spells. I feel like I always forget to use them, so not having to remember to press is nice. Needs testing though. At it stands, one HP = 0.6s reduction for Divine Protection and 3s for Divine Shield.

75 - Sanctified Wrath. Spamming hammer is fun now that wings is undispellable (*begs Blizzard not to change that*).

90 - Not sure on this one until I can see it. They all sound like great animation.

[BananaHandsB]

75 - Sanctified Wrath. Spamming hammer is fun now that wings is undispellable (*begs Blizzard not to change that*).

90 - Not sure on this one until I can see it. They all sound like great animation.

O wow, it's not dispellable. FINALLY. Please don't change this blizz. Don't let them eat our amazing ability, with a 5th tier talent put into it with a simple dispel! It's so frustrating waiting for AW to come off CD only to see it instantly dispelled =(

And, I agree, the 90 talents sound like they'll have spectacular animations.

[Frozen Death Knight]

This spec would be for solo and duels against Mages and other ranged classes we have trouble getting within range with:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...ator#bb!220212

Even if "LAotL" can be useful, the fact that I only need 3 Holy Power to get a 40% speed buff while still being able to carry 5 Holy Power will make this one have a much higher uptime, despite having to spend Holy Power.

"Burden of Guilt" is a no brainer when it comes to Mage duels or any duel requiring us to get in range with our enemy, but against melee I would probably choose one of the CCs, since then I could incapacitate them for a longer period of time, therefore making it easier for me to recover my health or prevent the target from escaping when I go in for a killing blow.

"Selfless Healer" is an instant huge powerful heal every 12 seconds and can not be dispelled like "Sacred Shield", so it is the ultimate option against a Mage.

"Clemency", because manually resetting my CD is a better option when being in duels, especially if the fight can be quite short. Plus, if my "Hand of Freedom" is on CD, I can use it again, therefore increasing my mobility some more.

"Sanctified Wrath", since then I simply can attack more from range, therefore increasing my dps pressure against ranged classes that kite me ("Avenging Wrath" will no longer be dispelled, too!).

"Execution Sentence", because it is a single target ranged dps CD and a single target healing CD that has a 1 minute CD. The other talents in this tier lose a lot of their power since they have an AoE component to it and AoE is not necessary in a 1vs1 scenario.


As I said, this is just one example of a build I would use. I would take some other talents if I was playing a certain Arena comp or being in a rated BG raid group. There are a few mandatory talents in certain aspects (1vs1 for instance) and a few I would never use in a PvP situation (i.e. Divine Purpose and Eternal Flame), but other than that, I could see a good use of most talents.

[Deleted]

This would be the general spec for pve

Depending on situations of course I will change talents.
I think tier 1, 3 & 4 will be one of those I will rarely ever change. They just seem straightforward to me.

Tier 1:
Long Arm is going to scale with haste as judgements cooldown is reduced, only making the talent better for each haste upgrade.

Tier 2:
Basically it's probably going to be rare that we need a slow or a stun for any boss fights, or cc in that case however I would like to be able to throw out cc on trash. This tier doesn't really interest me much pve wise.

Tier 3.
Being able to as a dps to contribute to my holy paladins healing and my tanks surviveability makes Sacred Shield a no brainer for me. Eternal Flame is going to be a dps loss and so is Selfless Healer assumeing it will take a gcd to cast FoL. I just think Sacred Shield contributes more to a fight overall, however this might change depending on mechanics. If I were to choose which talents I want for tier 11,12 and 13 I would take Sacred Shield for all fights.

Tier 4.
Change between Clemency and Unbreakable Spirit is probably going to be the normal way. I like to be able to throw out more LoH and avoid high damage phases by using bubble. Hand of Purity will only be useable for fights with a massive dot, and I will only take it for those fights.

Tier 5.
I don't know which is more dps, I'm not going with Divine Purpose though (RNG Sucks). If Holy Avenger and Sanctified Wrath are equal or Sanctified Wrath is stronger dps than Holy Avenger, I will use SW all the time. If Holy Avenger pulls ahead on stationary fights, I will use Holy Avenger for that and Sanctified Wrath for fights where I might be likely to be a lot out of ranged (Atramedes example).

Tier 6.
Depending on what does most damage. Light's Hammer, for fights where lots of aoe is needed.

Edit:
Just read that this is builds for PVP, haha I suck Will update my pvp build here in a soon.

[Palatinus]

15 - Long Arm of the Law
Speed of light will most likely be dispelable, at best they will just dispel freedom and snare you. 1 minute cooldown wasted.
Pursuit of justice is too up and down, if your away from your target then you will most likely be getting kited or kiting, eitherway, you will most likely be using the holy power on wog's rather than keeping 3 for 40% more movement speed.
LAotL is the clear winner for me, short cooldown which is lowered by haste, has no dead-zone now, is on an ability we will be pressing anyway for holy power. Allows you to kite better while healing.

30 - Burden of Guilt or Fist of Justice
This will really depend on what I am doing, Fist seems really nice with the added range and half cooldown. But a ranged snare is just too valuable, it also allows you to potentially do more damage with seal of truth. That said, I hope they aren't finished with this tier, repentance should of been baseline like it is now, and BoG should also be built into SoJ instead of a talent by itself....

45 - Sacred Shield
This is pretty easy for me, Sacred shield with a mana cost instead of holy power + 30% crit chance for wog. Hopefully they do something about offensive dispels, but either way this seems the best. Shield will proc when CC'd and can be placed on an ally, I think I heard it was off the GCD too? Selfless healer sounds nice, but the mana cost of flash is a little to high to be spammable for ret,especially with the Emancipate spam cost. And the 30% crit on wog + shield will probably work out better in the long term too. Not to mention that selfless healer will probably be nerfed for pve holy reasons if it is to become 'good' in pvp.

60 - Unbreakable faith
This just seems so easy to me. Clemency cooldown is a joke, beyond rofl. Hand of purity will probably be dispellable, its cooldown is also too long given that its 6 seconds duration, not to mention only 70% reduction to just DoTs. Compare this to something like cloak (ok has a longer cooldown) but just look at AMS, terrible in comparison. And what happens when you don't fight a warlock or Spriest? Might be useful against ferals I suppose, have to see what happens to them what with monk dispelling bleeds now.

75 - Holy Avenger
I can see why people see wrath and instantly think "OMG". But haste is going to reduce the CD on hammer anyway, hammer probably wont hit that hard if it needs to be 'balanced' around this ability, and then the main point...why do you want to put all your cooldowns onto one ability?
Holy Avenger is now just Zealotry, its not tied to any other ability, its a whole other 2 minute cooldown, and it now works on all holy power generating abilities, so with wings up you will be able to spam TV or WoGs every other global effectively.

90 - Execution Sentence or Holy Prism
This is what I plan on trying out first, however if the burst at the end isn't worth the cooldown or its dispellable, I will probably turn to Holy prism, seems like a decent backup choice.

[Dermont]

15- Long Arm of the Law
Speed of light has a 1 min CD, so not really worth it. PoJ, is only 40% and thats with 3 holy power, PvP is fast paced and you'll be spending your holy power. With LAotL, you get 45% increase every 6 seconds, and it lasts 3 seconds, half the time you're faster. Also, when chasing someone with a flag if it's only you and them, and they're out of melee range, you have no way to get holy power, so judgement + move speed means you stop the winning cap. SoL has a bad CD for pvp, and PoJ is less move speed and more inconsistent.

30- Burden of Guilt
This one was a little bit of a tear between Fist of Justice, but in the end, you already have Hammer of Justice, why not add another move speed impairing ability. Repentance is just out, I have never liked it, it's easily escapable, meh. So when you use judgement, they get slowed, you get faster, if they're desperate they'll pop a CD, and you still have Hammer of Justice. If you were to take Fist of Justice, you use that, they use a trink, they escape.

45- Selfless Healer
Remember how Art of War used to proc FoL and Exo? I'm hoping that this feels like that. Sacred shield only absorbs a hit every 6 seconds, which isn't that handy, and as ret and primarily dps you wont benefit from the +30% crit to FoL because you won't have time to cast it, dispel-ability has already been mentioned. Eternal Flame costs holy power, which you'll want to be spending on dps. Selfless Healer contributes to the off healing potential in arenas or for an FC.

60- Hand of Purity
People have said that 6 seconds isn't very long, but 6 seconds is enough for your healer to not die to warlock DoTs and keep your team alive. Unbreakable Spirit sounds cool, and maybe I'll swap to that, but right now, the "help the healer survive the dots" ability sounds better to me. The other hands are all pretty accessible so Clemency seemed a bit of a waste.

75- Sanctified Wrath
I loved the old Divine Purpose, but now that it only procs off abilities that cost hp, instead of the old list, I'm not sure if it will feel the same, I might try that one. Holy Avenger seems pretty good too, but I would use AV then HV anyway and alternate CS/Judge and TV. I figured Sanctified Wrath would yield higher dps, but this is another one to try and is less concrete.

90- Holy Prism
Lights Hammer would be useless in pvp since enemies could move out of the area. Execution sentence doesn't seem awful, but I'll have to play around with it and Prism. Holy Prism seems like a nice mix of dps and off heals without having to do more than target and cast. Along with the utility to do more damage, or more healing. Good on an enemy healer or FC, or a friendly healer or FC, or yourself.

There my 2 cents.

[Xeonxi]

Talents
Clemency When activated, immediately finishes the cooldown on your Hand of Freedom, Hand of Protection, Hand of Sacrifice and Hand of Salvation. Instant. 5 min cooldown. You can use Hand of Freedom, Hand of Protection, Hand of Sacrifice and Hand of Salvation twice each before incurring their cooldowns.
Sacred Shield The shield also absorbs (5,879 + 52% 78% of SPH) damage when the target takes damage, but no more than once every 6 sec. 18% 27% of Base Mana.
Sanctified Wrath You gain Avenging Wrath lasts 50% longer and grants more frequent access to one of your abilities during Avenging Wrath. while it lasts. Holy Holy Shock has no cooldown. Holy Reduces the cooldown of Holy Shock by 50%. Protection Judgment has no cooldown. Protection Reduces the cooldown of Judgment by 50%. Retribution Hammer of Wrath has no cooldown. Retribution Reduces the cooldown of Hammer of Wrath by 50%.

Wow. Sanctified Wrath will be mandatory. It may appear to be less burst, but it just means you can squeeze in more CS, TV, or WoG in between HoW spam. And yes, 3 sec CD HoW is STILL HoW spam. And the CS, TV, and WoG that you can squeeze in benefit from the 50% longer AW!

Just... Wow. Also, Clemency is probably the better choice for Ret PvP paladins now. I don't see Rets ever having mobility problems with TWO BoF + a 12.5% mana cost Cata cleanse (remove 1 movement impairing effect).

[LukashP]

What about the newest beta changes?
Clemency starts to be looking fineee. And Sanctified Wrath is still very good.

[Eon Drache]

15) Long arm of the Law;
-- Easy uptime to keep. Haste will make this talent even better because Judgement will have a lowered Cooldown. And in PvP, Judgement's Cooldown is automatically 1 second shorter, so 5 seconds default. With the buff lasting 3 seconds, its almost 50% uptime in PvE, and 60% in PvP.

30)
-- Going with Fists of Justice. For now, Ret still has Seal of Justice, which shows more up-front damage than Truth atm and it does the same as Burden of Guilt. I rather have a 30 second reduction on a stun + added yards. None of them are going to be particularly effective in PvE until Ret is called on to kite.... And hunters, mages, and Boomkins do that so much better.

45)
-- Going with Selfless Healer. Mainly because Sacred Shield absorbs a low amount, where as Flash of Light is currently healing for a LOT. Going to have to see the final numbers on this one to really decide.

60)
-- Unbreakable Spirit. It's passive, and lowers all of my major defense Cooldowns drastically. Obviously, will change to Hand of Purity on bosses with DoTs (Baleroc!) and might try Clemency for PvP, haven't really decided yet since we have Emancipation. Be good to take Clemency in a PvP environment with a healer/caster.

75)
-- Holy Avenger. It makes our weapon look like Ashbringer. That makes it win by default.

90)
-- Stay of Execution for single target, otherwise I love the Light's Hammer animation. I do like the Cooldown on Holy Prism, though. Makes me sad cause its animation sucks.