Purgatory Discussion

[OniXiion]

Isn't every DK in the world going to take this talent for PVE? Surviving when screwing up and getting healed up is pretty godlike, regardless if your healers have to spend mana getting you up, it still means that you will be able to perform full DPS instead of being dead.

I don't like the talent honestly. It looks like stupid person clutch and something that will cause a lot of rage just like cheat death and cauterize do right now, of course assuming you don't take unhealable damage.

I can honestly say if I'm DPSing, I'd rather take AMZ for most if not all situations. If Im not over aggroing the tank, what is going to be killing me is AoE magic damage, and with the buff to AMZ base absorb and from Strength, it will be more than enough to help keep me alive. Also, Dps tend to get heals whenever it is convient. Healers will focus more on a tank and could "re-heal" the overkill damage within the 3 sec alotted window. Will take time for any healer* to switch to healing your dying ass and a single insta-heal won't likely cover it. I also don't think as Unholy I could get 2 or even 1 Deathstrike in time to help much anyway. This is also to say whatever boss ability did you in didnt also hit other DPS, reducing the chance you'll get healed instead of them. So no, not -ALL- Dks will be taking Purgatory.

*monk MAY be able to help this, with the Serpent Stance change to healing the lowest health target, and aside from Mage/rogue/paladin with similar abilities, negative hp will be the lowest around.

[Dalavita]

I can honestly say if I'm DPSing, I'd rather take AMZ for most if not all situations. If Im not over aggroing the tank, what is going to be killing me is AoE magic damage, and with the buff to AMZ base absorb and from Strength, it will be more than enough to help keep me alive. Also, Dps tend to get heals whenever it is convient. Healers will focus more on a tank and could "re-heal" the overkill damage within the 3 sec alotted window. Will take time for any healer* to switch to healing your dying ass and a single insta-heal won't likely cover it. I also don't think as Unholy I could get 2 or even 1 Deathstrike in time to help much anyway. This is also to say whatever boss ability did you in didnt also hit other DPS, reducing the chance you'll get healed instead of them.

*monk MAY be able to help this, with the Serpent Stance change to healing the lowest health target, and aside from Mage/rogue/paladin with similar abilities, negative hp will be the lowest around.

When Blizzard implements AOE magic death mechanics they're always implemented in such a way that you can avoid them if you play properly, so AMZ has other purposes in my mind. Purgatory is simply a "you stood in fire, it's ok you'll live" kind of move.

[Deleted]

I like it a lot.
-Gives healers 3s to finish their big heal pre-casting for the hit that "kills" me. AND with the metric TON of selfhealing a dk has it's going to be obscene in a lot of raid situations.
-The fact that it doesn't heal you upon proc means you are sitting @ 1hp and any incomming damage will kill you even before the 3s are up ( or at least that how it should work from the skill wording).

Very powerfull skill, which still requires a bit of skill to actively use. The passive use is perhaps a bit too powerfull though. Making it a skill you have to use (ie: lasts 15s, 1 death rune, 15s cd) would probably make it go a long way towards balance.

Isn't every DK in the world going to take this talent for PVE? Surviving when screwing up and getting healed up is pretty godlike, regardless if your healers have to spend mana getting you up, it still means that you will be able to perform full DPS instead of being dead.

I don't like the talent honestly. It looks like stupid person clutch and something that will cause a lot of rage just like cheat death and cauterize do right now, of course assuming you don't take unhealable damage.

I would agree that i can't see how any blood DK would pass up this talent, but decent dps dks have no need of it ... except maybe for specific encounters (ie: hc ultraxion hour soaking).

[OniXiion]

Right, so if Purgatory will be for countering human errors like that, I'd rather work on my own awareness and take a talent with what i feel is better utlity. Magic AoE death mechanics will be rare and yes probably have a way around it but that hasn't stopped me from needing AMZ on Ultraxion because I had to use the mechanic "oh shit" for an ill timed Fading Light. Likewise, Purgatory seems to be based off of dying from damage instead of an insta-kill mechanic, so each would be equally ideal as per designer intent.
I just find more utility in Anti-magic Zone helping out fellow DPS(/raid if its a stack mechanic) negate damage and ease up healer frustration, and I am positive other Deathknights will choose the same is all.

[Wih]

Does anyone remember or can anyone find out what this ability replaced in the talent tree?

Icy Grip, IIRC.

[Pua]

Right, so if Purgatory will be for countering human errors like that, I'd rather work on my own awareness and take a talent with what i feel is better utlity. Magic AoE death mechanics will be rare and yes probably have a way around it but that hasn't stopped me from needing AMZ on Ultraxion because I had to use the mechanic "oh shit" for an ill timed Fading Light. Likewise, Purgatory seems to be based off of dying from damage instead of an insta-kill mechanic, so each would be equally ideal as per designer intent.
I just find more utility in Anti-magic Zone helping out fellow DPS(/raid if its a stack mechanic) negate damage and ease up healer frustration, and I am positive other Deathknights will choose the same is all.

I don’t think many 10-man raids will thank a DPS death knight who doesn’t bring a raid cooldown with him when it’s readily available.

Personally, though I like the look of the talent, it appears as if Blizzard simply hasn’t learned anything from the original incarnation of Ardent Defender.

Having one tank passively survive something that would kill the other tanks is wrong, any way you cut it.

[OniXiion]

I don’t think many 10-man raids will thank a DPS death knight who doesn’t bring a raid cooldown with him when it’s readily available.

Personally, though I like the look of the talent, it appears as if Blizzard simply hasn’t learned anything from the original incarnation of Ardent Defender.

Having one tank passively survive something that would kill the other tanks is wrong, any way you cut it.

I couldn't agree more. AMZ is more beneficial to the raid in more situations than if a Dps has to take some heals to cheat death, instead of the tank. I see it as a no brainer as well to take this talent (and I do talk from a 10 man standpoint as well). So coupled with your remark about being better than other tanks I expect this to change soon enough.

[Demetrion]

PvP wise, it doesn't prove any damage reduction while active or anything, which means you will most likely just die 3 seconds later. Doesn't seem very strong in PvP. I don't think it will be an option if it's in the same tier as AMZ and Lichborne, which it seems to be.

I see it very strong. In PVP there are no big overkill numbers which basically means that a simple heal can prevent the effect from killing you, taken that you will be alive for at least one second can give your healer or yourself enough time to react and save yourself.

[Milocow]

Icy Grip, IIRC.

I thought it was in the second tier of talents along with Lichborne and AMZ
According to WoWhead anyway..

[OniXiion]

I thought it was in the second tier of talents along with Lichborne and AMZ
According to WoWhead anyway..

Yep, then you recall correctly. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mis...t-calculator#d!
Icy Grip was the third tier 2 option, slightly outta place given it was on the same tier as survival cooldowns though >.> glad this is no longer the case.

[Deleted]

I wish animation of this would be swirling souls (like shadowmourne proc). I think that would perfectly fit lore and epicness of this ability - Souls appearing and wants to take death knight into Hell. Amazing.
Bump this please: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3888939539#1

[Tinykong]

It's really not that powerful, because unless you are tanking, you're not being constantly healed. In 3 seconds the likelihood of healers doing enough healing to keep you from dying is pretty unlikely.

Imo they need to remove this talent, and replace it with the old will of the necropolis, and make it function like cauterize, and be able to sacrifice your minion to negate the damage.

[fangless]

I couldn't agree more. AMZ is more beneficial to the raid in more situations than if a Dps has to take some heals to cheat death, instead of the tank. I see it as a no brainer as well to take this talent (and I do talk from a 10 man standpoint as well). So coupled with your remark about being better than other tanks I expect this to change soon enough.

AMZ is so situational though.

I would definitely MUCH rather possibly save a battle res than add a very situational raid CD that the healers largely cover anyhow.

[OniXiion]

AMZ is so situational though.

I would definitely MUCH rather possibly save a battle res than add a very situational raid CD that the healers largely cover anyhow.

Alright, it's quite a fair assumption that most of these talents are pretty much that, situational. However, I could argue that there is more situations where a raid-wide damage reduction, that saves healer mana, will get more use than a personal cool down that requires healer attention. Then again if you and others want Purgatory regardless of spec and I want AMZ as well as other Dks wanting it then its a success.

[Baphomette]

-The fact that it doesn't heal you upon proc means you are sitting @ 1hp and any incomming damage will kill you even before the 3s are up ( or at least that how it should work from the skill wording).

My understanding of it is that you cannot die while the 3s buff is active, but any additional damage you take in that time has to be outhealed too.

I think it's a pretty good talent. DPS DKs will usually want AMZ but there are definitely uses for this. I'm glad I don't have to choose between Icy Grip and Lichborne for PVP now too.

[Dalavita]

I can see this being used if the tanks run out of cooldowns tho and a DPS DK with it taunts for the tank, "dies" and gets healed up, i.e vs an impale or something.

[Nnyco]

I don't see it being an issue getting healed up at all, in PvE. If you are about to die, the healers are most likely going to be healing you already anyway. I doubt tanks will be taking unexpected hits greater than 80% of their health.
Right?

hello my name is blackhorn and i disapprove this

[Pua]

AMZ is so situational though.

I would definitely MUCH rather possibly save a battle res than add a very situational raid CD that the healers largely cover anyhow.

In the last two tiers alone, AMZ was useful as a raid cooldown for practically every fight.

Shannox – final phase, stacking fire damage.
Beth’tilac – final phase, stacking fire damage.
Lord Rhyolith – final phase, stacking fire damage.
Baleroc – shard tanking.
Alysrazor – Recharge phase, stacking fire damage.
Staghelm – scorpion cleaves.
Ragnaros – seed explosions (among others).
Morchok – bubble bursting.
Yor’saj – after eating the stack-smartie (forget colour).
Zon’ozz – AoE phase.
Ultraxion – latter stages of the fight.
Blackhorn – the stack-or-die void zone explosions.
Spine – latter plates, when raid damage ramps up.
Madness – elementium bolt landings.

In short, with the exception of Hagara, AMZ has got raid utility in every encounter throughout the last two tiers of content. It would take a pretty significant shift in encounter focus for that to change.

[asharia]

Its not going to let you solo an onslaught or take an impale though. The overkill has to be healable in 3secs. And if you're a dps and you just f'd up, some of that 3secs is lost in the time taken for the healers to switch to you. If you're a tank, they might already be spamming you if you're dying.

What happens if you get hit again in that 3 secs? Does it increase the amount of healing required?

[Deleted]

My understanding of it is that you cannot die while the 3s buff is active, but any additional damage you take in that time has to be outhealed too.

I think it's a pretty good talent. DPS DKs will usually want AMZ but there are definitely uses for this. I'm glad I don't have to choose between Icy Grip and Lichborne for PVP now too.

I doubt it. Take the other cheat death mecanics already ingame, they all work only on the one hit that would have killed you.
Besides, "immortal for 3s" would be beyond foolish, specially with things like Lay on Hands followup.