MOP Warrior Concerns.

[dd614]

I always wondered why they couldn't make Haste the Fury stat and Crit the Arms stat. Arms is supposed to be the gladiator type who hits hard and precise while fury is the drunken berserker who swings wildly. Besides, it would be fun to take gear from DKs and Rets and say "It's for my fury spec".

[Reuben]

simulationcraft.org/504/Raid_T14H.html#Warrior_Fury_2h_T14H

Wait what?

Titans grip sim'd at 124736 dps

Still looking for problems in the results, but on first glance it looks accurate. The gems and forges, were optimized for crit over previous sims putting it at 30.8% crit raid buffed. This put enrage uptime at ~80% which resulted in the above.

I see a nerf to the double crit chance on bloodthirst coming soon, as players stacking crit would be near 100% enrage uptime next tier(unless that's something they are ok with).

[Arothand]

So for stats for Arms/Fury we still want Crit > Mastery > Haste correct?

[Juni]

Titans grip sim'd at 124736 dps

Still looking for problems in the results, but on first glance it looks accurate. The gems and forges, were optimized for crit over previous sims putting it at 30.8% crit raid buffed. This put enrage uptime at ~80% which resulted in the above.

I see a nerf to the double crit chance on bloodthirst coming soon, as players stacking crit would be near 100% enrage uptime next tier(unless that's something they are ok with).

I know it did. I just find it hilarious how TG is suddenly on the top. WE'RE NOT DOOMED........hopefully.

Edit: i've also ran a couple of quick dungeons on beta just to get the feel of fury (tried SMF in this case), and it doesn't feel half bad with shockwave + Bloodbath. Will require some getting used to, but it's not horrible anymore

---------- Post added 2012-08-10 at 04:35 PM ----------

So for stats for Arms/Fury we still want Crit > Mastery > Haste correct?

Arms and fury are quite different right now. For fury u want to gem crit as the 2 statweights are extremely close and u get more crit than strength on the gems (270 vs 120 or sumthn like that). But yes, at its core, that is still the stats we want.

[killabee]

Speaking from my beta experience, I rarely ran into the issue of having no rage for slam outside of fights with AoE, or cleave. Usually TfB and sudden death proc'd enough(free attacks=more rage), where having a dead GCD was rare.

This was my experience as well. Thanks for confirming this.

I don’t believe it’s purely rage generation that’s causing the issue, I believe it’s the way Taste for Blood works that’s causing the problem. Too often, Heroic Strike beats Slam for damage thanks to Taste for Blood and it’s this that shoves gaps into the rotation. If they stopped that from happening, and returned Heroic Strike to its original role, I’d be satisfied.

Why would HS beating Slam in terms of damage due to TfB introduce gaps in the rotation? In such case you just use HS instead of Slam if you don't have enough rage to both Slam AND HS. Both cost the same rage.

[meathead]

Boy am I glad our stances now have 3 sec CD!
I was about to feel forgotten by Blizzard.
(Yes i know warrior are still going to get polished but sorry this change is just so sarcastic *giggles*)

i know right?i mean really wtf,whats the point of having 3 sec cd on our stances?

[Zellviren]

Why would HS beating Slam in terms of damage due to TfB introduce gaps in the rotation? In such case you just use HS instead of Slam if you don't have enough rage to both Slam AND HS. Both cost the same rage.

Because Heroic Strike isn't on the GCD - it doesn't fill a gap as a result which means using it (correctly) increases the gap chance by a landslide.

[PikminPC]

Before stance CD: Stances on GCD but have no cooldown
Post change: Stances off the GCD but with 3 sec cooldown.

Basically now we do not have to sacrifice a global to change stances.

[Zellviren]

With your first point, you are dreaming of utopia if you actually believe that there wouldn't be some abilities that stand out more than others, that raiders would gravitate towards. Sure, there are a couple tiers where it just makes sense to take one talent over the rest and perhaps the other talents in that tier need to be redesigned, but still the talents you take will depend to some extent on the mechanics of the raid fight which was also Blizzard's intention.

Certain talents being "better", I can live with. Certain talents being necessary before I can have as much enjoyment from a hugely popular spec on live?

Not so much.

And I'm still waiting on someone telling me a single, solitary positive reason for putting gaps in. Not "gaps are okay", but a solid reason why an almost universally successful melee model has been changed.

To your second point, there is also another non-GCD capped class that exists on live called the warrior. More specifically, the Fury Warrior.

I don't play Fury for exactly that reason.

[Opeth69]

stance change is really crappy, they should jsut have 2 stances offensive and defensive, as atm if an attack on your char will generate more than 6 rage form damage taken then its worth switching to Berserker stance then back again as arms at least, which is going to make it incredibly annoying to maximize the potential dps

[killabee]

Because Heroic Strike isn't on the GCD - it doesn't fill a gap as a result which means using it (correctly) increases the gap chance by a landslide.

I see what you mean now. To me a real gap would be if you could not use any attack at that time.

And I'm still waiting on someone telling me a single, solitary positive reason for putting gaps in. Not "gaps are okay", but a solid reason why an almost universally successful melee model has been changed.

You like to be GCD capped, we get it. It doesn't mean the model is perfect and can not be improved. I like Rage to matter again, to make a decision which button to press to maintain the rotation. That adds another dimension to the class. Currently on live Rage does not matter and you keep blindly pressing 1-2-3 or 1-3-2 and you even press 4 from time to time. On beta you have a real choice. You could either use that OP that just procced, which does less damage but is also free, or you could use that Slam that will set you back 30 Rage but do more damage, or perhaps you are at 3 stacks of TfB and would rather use HS. On live the choice is binary, trivial and boring - to HS or not to HS. So it comes down to a matter of opinions again, no right or wrong here.

I am really familiar where you are coming from. This problem is not new by any means. Remember DKs back in Wrath, coming to Cata and all of the sudden have their world changed both with Rune regen change and from completely static rotation (Unholy) to much more random one. Even Frost DKs that were always reliant on procs were shocked by the randomness and unpredictable nature of the new system. I was one of those DKs back then and I was not happy about my class changing, but I kept my mind open.

Now, two years later, I absolutely love that change. It added an extra dimension to the class and made the difference between players of different skill much easier to observe. See, anyone can do 1-2-3-3-4-3-4-4-repeat rotations. Reacting to procs with 1 sec GCDs while watching two different resources is a different story.

My point is that for me the more dynamic nature of Warrior "rotation" is refreshing and exciting.

Also the earlier comment you made about Warriors fulfilling the gcd-capped niche of WoW classes - that is also your interpretation. To me Warriors fulfill the only pure physical class niche that hit things with steel and make them bleed while yelling at them.

[Shadowsword]

stance change is really crappy, they should jsut have 2 stances offensive and defensive, as atm if an attack on your char will generate more than 6 rage form damage taken then its worth switching to Berserker stance then back again as arms at least, which is going to make it incredibly annoying to maximize the potential dps

yes the berserker stance rage gen is extremely unreliable and you need to take some brutal damage to make it really win over battle stance, i mean ultraxion level of brutal damage, or when you pull aggro from an instance boss.. now how often do we have ultraxion fights or pull aggro in instances these days.

I think they'll rework berserker stance.. as it stands it's weak as piss alternative to battle, and even battle can compare to the benefits of berserker in the few hens teeth scenarios where it would be worth using berserker.

[cexspa]

Some minor changes are out.
Postive:
Taste for Blood change is a very nice tweak.
Double Time amazing change just what we asked for. (unless it is just a tooltip change and nothing else)

Negative:
3 sec CD on stances but they no longer trigger the GCD (it was on a 0.5 or 0.25 gcd). in pvp you will be dancing excessively for the max possible rage generation. I guess blizzard did not like it when they saw warriors swapping stances so much in pvp and with this change they proly wanted to kill the possibility that excessive stance dancing is mandatory for maximum pvp performance.

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Glyph of Overpower: Cleave hits increases the damage of your next Overpower by 20%, up from 10%.

Why the hell does blizzard insist on keeping this glyph and even bother with tweaking it is beyond me.

[Arothand]

I liked the original idea where Battle stance was for ST and Berserker was for AOE. Don't know why they went away from that.

[Korgoth]

I found the solution to haste sucking for Arms. They put in an arms ability called 'Precise Striker: Haste rating and attack speed increasing effects now increase Critical Strike chance instead.' It fixes the haste problem by getting rid of it, and it is makes so much sense from a RP viewpoint on Arms being the spec of skilled weapon control, not frenzied attacking like Fury.

[Maerran]

I liked the original idea where Battle stance was for ST and Berserker was for AOE. Don't know why they went away from that.

Yea I liked that change too. Made the stances have a clear purpose. Although the name was completely misleading for what they did ^^

[Flaks]

Before stance CD: Stances on GCD but have no cooldown
Post change: Stances off the GCD but with 3 sec cooldown.

Basically now we do not have to sacrifice a global to change stances.

OH! That's actually a good change. I thought they were still on the gcd after that change. Being locked into a stance for 3 seconds also increases the skill cap as you can't just blindly change stances like you can on live.

[Korgoth]

Double Time amazing change just what we asked for. (unless it is just a tooltip change and nothing else)

Logged in to try it. So you charge, starts a CD, charge again, continues that CD, when that ends you can charge again, after that it starts another 20s CD, it does not keep 2 separate CDs, so Charge once then again 5s later, you cant charge twice 25s after that, you can only charge once 20s after the first charge and 20s after that, it takes 40s to actually get back to 2 charges.

Which means its still terrible as all you really get is 2 charges at the start since you will never have a 40s window needed to allow the use of a second charge after that. 12s CD beats 20s CD + 1 extra charge at the beginning of the fight.

If the devs had any fucking intention to make the warrior class something good again, they'd just remove it and put Intercept in its place on the talent tree, 25s CD, 3s Stun.

[Flaks]

Korgoth, I'm pretty sure the new build isn't up yet considering how the data mined notes just went up today and the beta/ptr servers haven't gone down since.

[PureBallin]

Logged in to try it. So you charge, starts a CD, charge again, continues that CD, when that ends you can charge again, after that it starts another 20s CD, it does not keep 2 separate CDs, so Charge once then again 5s later, you cant charge twice 25s after that, you can only charge once 20s after the first charge and 20s after that, it takes 40s to actually get back to 2 charges.

Which means its still terrible as all you really get is 2 charges at the start since you will never have a 40s window needed to allow the use of a second charge after that. 12s CD beats 20s CD + 1 extra charge at the beginning of the fight.

If the devs had any fucking intention to make the warrior class something good again, they'd just remove it and put Intercept in its place on the talent tree, 25s CD, 3s Stun.

I pretty much fully agree mate, I just want my Intercept back : /

However with the 3 sec CD on Stances now, it would be pointless as you would have to go through 3 GCD's to charge > intercerpt > back to battle stance :/

They have no fucking idea how Warriors work nor do they listen to the Warrior community, 0% logic.