MOP Warrior Concerns.

[Korgoth]

Korgoth, I'm pretty sure the new build isn't up yet considering how the data mined notes just went up today and the beta/ptr servers haven't gone down since.

Nope its been updated. New text on Double Time in the talent tree. PTR is running it now too if you dont have beta.

[cexspa]

Logged in to try it. So you charge, starts a CD, charge again, continues that CD, when that ends you can charge again, after that it starts another 20s CD, it does not keep 2 separate CDs, so Charge once then again 5s later, you cant charge twice 25s after that, you can only charge once 20s after the first charge and 20s after that, it takes 40s to actually get back to 2 charges.

Which means its still terrible as all you really get is 2 charges at the start since you will never have a 40s window needed to allow the use of a second charge after that. 12s CD beats 20s CD + 1 extra charge at the beginning of the fight.

If the devs had any fucking intention to make the warrior class something good again, they'd just remove it and put Intercept in its place on the talent tree, 25s CD, 3s Stun.

Thanks for the confirmation.
As suspected a tooltip update

[meathead]

OH! That's actually a good change. I thought they were still on the gcd after that change. Being locked into a stance for 3 seconds also increases the skill cap as you can't just blindly change stances like you can on live.

no it does not increase the skill cap at all.making macros for stance dancing is not any type of pvp/pve skill at all,but rather macroing skill.stance dancing was outdated 2 x-pacs ago,it does nothing except make for slow and clunky game play.

[Flaks]

Korgoth, damn you for being the herald for bad news.

meathead, the thing with the new stances is that there's no need to macro them, or, if you really want to, you only need to macro like two abilities. Even then, you'll want to keybind your stances separately to ensure you can access battle stance for rage generation/pressure or defensive stance when you're being focused with your cds down.

[gibcity]

I am no longer concerned with warriors in mop. We are looking mighty BEASTLY!

[Electromatt]

I am no longer concerned with warriors in mop. We are looking mighty BEASTLY!

SHHHHHHHHHHH blizzard can hear even the slightest whisper of warriors being happy.

[Juni]

SHHHHHHHHHHH blizzard can hear even the slightest whisper of warriors being happy.

this.

I'm still gonna wait and see if Blizz realises how strong we actually are right now, and if they're gonna buff arms. Cuz while playing SMF today I was pretty much blowing stuff out the water when I popped cds. Can't wait to try TG

[Arothand]

What rotation/priority is everyone using for Fury? I'm more than a little confused as how to best use the Wild Strike.. is it a filler when I have nothing else? If I get the proc that lets me do three in a row, do I use all three immediately or stagger them at the cost of losing the proc? What about when to use CDs?

I was using a priority of BT < CS < RB < WS, with WS as filler, but I think my damage meter (TinyDPS) isn't working right since it's barely showing above 30k on a dummy using cooldowns.

[Beefkow]

Soo... is double time actually viable? if so, warbringer needs to be fixed as well.

[meathead]

Soo... is double time actually viable? if so, warbringer needs to be fixed as well.

juggernaut is the way to go,12 sec charge or 20 sec charge?

[Beefkow]

juggernaut is the way to go,12 sec charge or 20 sec charge?

well... or 2 charges in 20 sec (2nd charge doesnt get the rage)... juggernaut in 12 sec.

[Zellviren]

I am really familiar where you are coming from. This problem is not new by any means. Remember DKs back in Wrath, coming to Cata and all of the sudden have their world changed both with Rune regen change and from completely static rotation (Unholy) to much more random one. Even Frost DKs that were always reliant on procs were shocked by the randomness and unpredictable nature of the new system. I was one of those DKs back then and I was not happy about my class changing, but I kept my mind open.

I actually think they just misunderstood the problem. In WotLK, there were a few specs (Unholy and Feral mainly) that had players fairly worried that their rotations were too punitive. What they were complaining about was that the slightest breakdown, for any reason, was ending up hammering their DPS. Blizzard took the view that THE solution was to make gaps that allowed a bit of what they considered breathing room. In some ways, it worked - but it wasn't the only solution. For warriors, they took the route in Cataclysm of linking attacks to talents but not having them all interdependent upon one another. The priority queue simply solves the problem in another way.

To be fair, I think you know what I'm saying, so I needn't repeat it. But I hope you can see why I'm so sore about it; there were two solutions provided in Cataclysm, I play the one I like most, and now it's being removed despite being perfect for me and many others.

[meathead]

well... or 2 charges in 20 sec (2nd charge doesnt get the rage)... juggernaut in 12 sec.

sure you might be able to use charge twice in 20 sec "5 secs apart form one another?" then its a 40 sec cd to be able to do that again. or juggernaut =12 charge cd.

[Beefkow]

sure you might be able to use charge twice in 20 sec "5 secs apart form one another?" then its a 40 sec cd to be able to do that again. or juggernaut =12 charge cd.

The "5 secs apart" part doesn't exist anymore, you can immediately use charge right after another (no rage though ).

[Angriff]

I think one of the goals Blizzard has in giving the rotations gaps is for your character to "feel more powerful" as the expansion progresses and you get better gear. As you get more gear with higher stats (particularly more crit), you'll have better rage generation and you'll be more able to spare the rage to cast more Slams to fill the gaps as Arms and more Wild Strikes to fill the gaps as Fury. It seems like the developers want your character progression to be something more than just "bigger numbers" from hitting the same abilities. They want resource generation and usage to grow and change as gear does, but if you already have enough resources to have a gapless rotation from day 1 of MoP, then gaining more rage generation would simply mean using Heroic Strike more.

Whether you agree with this goal or not, this is why Blizzard has setup the rotations this way. Like any other large change in gameplay, some people will like it, some will be indifferent, and some will hate it so much they reroll to a different class.

[Tabartank]

I think one of the goals Blizzard has in giving the rotations gaps is for your character to "feel more powerful" as the expansion progresses and you get better gear. As you get more gear with higher stats (particularly more crit), you'll have better rage generation and you'll be more able to spare the rage to cast more Slams to fill the gaps as Arms and more Wild Strikes to fill the gaps as Fury. It seems like the developers want your character progression to be something more than just "bigger numbers" from hitting the same abilities. They want resource generation and usage to grow and change as gear does, but if you already have enough resources to have a gapless rotation from day 1 of MoP, then gaining more rage generation would simply mean using Heroic Strike more.

Whether you agree with this goal or not, this is why Blizzard has setup the rotations this way. Like any other large change in gameplay, some people will like it, some will be indifferent, and some will hate it so much they reroll to a different class.

Then what is the bloody point of even having heroic strike if were meant to use the rage we gain simply using our filler abilities? If that's the design, they probably should take away heroic strike, seeing as it doesn't fit in the new gameplay they set up.

[PizzaSHARK]

Then what is the bloody point of even having heroic strike if were meant to use the rage we gain simply using our filler abilities? If that's the design, they probably should take away heroic strike, seeing as it doesn't fit in the new gameplay they set up.

That's pretty much what we've been saying for a while now.

[Juni]

I do think its a good concept from blizz' side. However most people (myself included) find it too punishing for this tier seeing as we see some major gaps in our rotation. I imagine when 5.0.4 goes live we'll get a feeling of how it is in the later tiers when ure well geared etc.

[Zellviren]

sure you might be able to use charge twice in 20 sec "5 secs apart form one another?" then its a 40 sec cd to be able to do that again. or juggernaut =12 charge cd.

I swear, I wish people would STOP saying this. It's untrue. This video explains how Double-Time works so please watch it, then stop spreading misinformation.

I think one of the goals Blizzard has in giving the rotations gaps is for your character to "feel more powerful" as the expansion progresses and you get better gear. As you get more gear with higher stats (particularly more crit), you'll have better rage generation and you'll be more able to spare the rage to cast more Slams to fill the gaps as Arms and more Wild Strikes to fill the gaps as Fury.

This is what I wrote in my blog a month or so ago:

" It’s by design intent that the rotational gaps are there because it’s the only way to stop warriors from simply macroing Heroic Strike to everything once they’re in great gear, and gives the class room to grow. I’m assuming that the plan is for warriors to look like this (assuming three tiers of content):

Start of tier 14: GCD’s not all filled.
Start of tier 15: GCD’s all filled.
Start of tier 16: GCD’s all filled, lots of Heroic Strike.

I’m also working from the viewpoint that talent choices will change for PvE, as Shockwave becomes Dragon Roar and Stormbolt becomes Bloodbath. Now naturally, this is in direct opposition to what we’ve seen in the past. In general, talent trees have remained the same throughout an expansion once the cookie-cutter was found and the raiding tier breakdown looked a bit like this:

Start of first tier: GCD’s all filled, lots of Heroic Strike by the end.
Start of second tier: Nerf. GCD’s all filled, lots of Heroic Strike by the end.
Start of third tier: Nerf. GCD’s all filled, lots of Heroic Strike by the end.

We all know that this is a gross oversimplification, but essentially we’re talking about warriors using the same talents and rotation throughout an expansion, but being “reset” with a nerf at the start of every tier. This is neither fun nor effective for progression, but it’s almost the only way the issue could be reasonably handled to keep warriors competitive. Oh, by competitive I mean “not consistently overpowered”."

[meathead]

The "5 secs apart" part doesn't exist anymore, you can immediately use charge right after another (no rage though ).

even without the 5 sec apart thing,40 sec cd to use back to back charges is way to long.i would take juggernaut any day.