Obama's Healthcare Bill; Are We Doomed?

[Deleted]

Obamacare is only the beginning to free healthcare for all americans. You must realize that that the voters would never accept the tax raise free healthcare would cost and thats why it doesn't go "further".

[DeltrusDisc]

Yet we're one of the most unhappy nations in the world, wonder why...

[ati87]

Don't argue healtcare with americans (read republicans)

They actually cheered during a debate where the moderator asked if a person comes to the hospital without insurance and needs medical treatment, if that person should just die or if the government should pay for his medial fees like it is now.

It doesn't mater that on average the US pays more for healthcare then similar industrialised countries;
it doesn't mater that the current healthcare system sucks so bad that they have to pay more;

[Auntlinda]

People posting from countries other than the US, it is difficult to understand all of the details of this plan but I urge you to consider two things. 1) "Free" public health care is great in theory, but what is being proposed in our country isn't necessarily the same thing already in place in yours. 2) The reason USA has thrived is capitalism and free market, and medicine is one of those markets, what's good for your country may not be good for ours.

I have family members that still live Europe, they come here (US) for medical and dental care. Another friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer, and permanently moved here for treatment. It's my opinion that free market competition has pushed our medicine to greater heights, and will not continue to do so under the policy that Obama is pushing. I would say for every 1 thing I agree with, there are another 3 that i do not.

In short, the bill as it stands is ridiculous and people don't fully understands it (other than politicians and lobbyists), and as many have pointed out has items in it that directly conflict with our nation's constitution (something foreigners seem to think they know more about than our own citizens...).

[Xeones]

People posting from countries other than the US, it is difficult to understand all of the details of this plan but I urge you to consider two things. 1) "Free" public health care is great in theory, but what is being proposed in our country isn't necessarily the same thing already in place in yours. 2) The reason USA has thrived is capitalism and free market, and medicine is one of those markets, what's good for your country may not be good for ours.

I have family members that still live Europe, they come here (US) for medical and dental care. Another friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer, and permanently moved here for treatment. It's my opinion that free market competition has pushed our medicine to greater heights, and will not continue to do so under the policy that Obama is pushing. I would say for every 1 thing I agree with, there are another 3 that i do not.

In short, the bill as it stands is ridiculous and people don't fully understands it (other than politicians and lobbyists), and as many have pointed out has items in it that directly conflict with our nation's constitution (something foreigners seem to think they know more about than our own citizens...).

I haven't seen anything that conflicts with the constitution.

[vindicatorx]

seeing you "have" to have insurance to drive a car and most people are ok with that I don't see why this bothers a lot of people.

[Riidii]

Yet we're one of the most unhappy nations in the world, wonder why...

Where the hell do you get this from?

I think Justice Kennedy (swing-voter) raised the best question, "We know it is constitutional for Congress to regulate commerce, but is it constitutional for Congress to create commerce?"

The mandate will be rejected.

[ptwonline]

It's only a matter of time before the supreme court over turns the required coverage mandate. The Federal government doesn't have the authority to impose a fine or tax on a private citizen for not buying goods or services from another private citizen or business, regardless of reasoning.

This is why the solution is a single payer system with people having the option to buy additional private insurance. Now you are no longer forced to buy anything from a private seller, and instead it's just another gov't service.

As for the fears over behavior modifications forced by the gov't, just look at the other countries with it and how they don't do anything like that.

[BLCalliente]

People posting from countries other than the US, it is difficult to understand all of the details of this plan but I urge you to consider two things. 1) "Free" public health care is great in theory, but what is being proposed in our country isn't necessarily the same thing already in place in yours. 2) The reason USA has thrived is capitalism and free market, and medicine is one of those markets, what's good for your country may not be good for ours.

I have family members that still live Europe, they come here (US) for medical and dental care. Another friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer, and permanently moved here for treatment. It's my opinion that free market competition has pushed our medicine to greater heights, and will not continue to do so under the policy that Obama is pushing. I would say for every 1 thing I agree with, there are another 3 that i do not.

In short, the bill as it stands is ridiculous and people don't fully understands it (other than politicians and lobbyists), and as many have pointed out has items in it that directly conflict with our nation's constitution (something foreigners seem to think they know more about than our own citizens...).

Is that the reason the USA has thrived? I'm not so sure.

I know we aren't thriving anymore.

[Vainglorious]

To sum up how it will work:
If you had health insurance before, it will cost you more and you'll get less options and ultimately get less healthcare than before.
If you were young and healthy and skipped insurance before, you have to pay a penalty or buy insurance that you don't need.
If you had no health insurance before or can qualify as "poor" (including illegals), then you will have more insurance and healthcare than before.

[omglazor]

This is why the solution is a single payer system with people having the option to buy additional private insurance. Now you are no longer forced to buy anything from a private seller, and instead it's just another gov't service.

As for the fears over behavior modifications forced by the gov't, just look at the other countries with it and how they don't do anything like that.

That's the most logical conclusion to come to. Everyone having healthcare is a Good Thing.

[BLCalliente]

People posting from countries other than the US, it is difficult to understand all of the details of this plan but I urge you to consider two things. 1) "Free" public health care is great in theory, but what is being proposed in our country isn't necessarily the same thing already in place in yours. 2) The reason USA has thrived is capitalism and free market, and medicine is one of those markets, what's good for your country may not be good for ours.

I have family members that still live Europe, they come here (US) for medical and dental care. Another friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer, and permanently moved here for treatment. It's my opinion that free market competition has pushed our medicine to greater heights, and will not continue to do so under the policy that Obama is pushing. I would say for every 1 thing I agree with, there are another 3 that i do not.

In short, the bill as it stands is ridiculous and people don't fully understands it (other than politicians and lobbyists), and as many have pointed out has items in it that directly conflict with our nation's constitution (something foreigners seem to think they know more about than our own citizens...).

Is that the reason the USA has thrived? I'm not so sure. One thing I am sure about is that we aren't thriving anymore.


I would argue that it's completely reasonable to believe that many foreigners know more about the United States Constitution than our citizens. It's sad, but doesn't mean it isn't true.

[Riidii]

To sum up how it will work:
If you had health insurance before, it will cost you more and you'll get less options and ultimately get less healthcare than before.
If you were young and healthy and skipped insurance before, you have to pay a penalty or buy insurance that you don't need.
If you had no health insurance before or can qualify as "poor" (including illegals), then you will have more insurance and healthcare than before.

Sounds like a great bill.

/sarcasm

[ptwonline]

Is that the reason the USA has thrived? I'm not so sure.

I know we aren't thriving anymore.

USA thrived because it attracted entrepreneurial people and people hungry for opportunity since they had none back home. And with all of the natural resources and land available, growth was huge and the nation became wealthy.

And of course the rebuilding of half the world while the USA had remained untouched and after huge stimulus (war) spending certainly helped. The USA also used to innovate.

[fruust]

i rather have higher taxes than have to get a loan to cover medical bills.

edit:
but i think people in the usa has more of an "every man for themselves" mindset in cases like these than what most of us swedes have.

[schwarzkopf]

Well, considering I don't want to pay for it, and if I had a choice wouldn't be...

I'm sure you don't want to pay for anything...

The fact is that for any sane society, you have to pay for infrastructure.

Here in Australia, we decided the more efficient route to regulate and control the industry - meaning more bang for buck.

In the US, your desire for small government forced it into paying more to avoid having any control. That's life. Health is infrastructure - you pay for it.

[pucGG]

OP, I think you should start wrapping your head around the idea, that humanity as a whole is heading in a direction where there is room for all people. Everyone has the right to life.
And please don't get right-wing with me, because if you were upper-middle class, lad, you wouldn't be complaining about "being forced" to buy an insurance.
And please don't get constitutional either, it's cool that you wrote a paper full of half truths (talking slavery), but you are definetely not losing the right to your pursuit of happiness, just because everyone has the opertunity for a dignified life.

EDIT: Relevant to the thread.

[Deleted]

Personally, I think American's are idiots for not having an "NHS" service like the UK does, if you get injured or become ill here, you dont have to dish out a shitload of money. Also, you wont have these "Insurance" companies trying to find every loop hole available to avoid getting you the medical help that you need. Dont get me wrong, the NHS in the UK needs alot of work, but it makes health care for the less well off an option, rather than the "Oh you dont have insurance, so fuck off and die" mentality that American's have. let Obama do whats needed for the good of the country for god sake / rantover.

[Kapper117]

Is that the reason the USA has thrived? I'm not so sure. One thing I am sure about is that we aren't thriving anymore.


I would argue that it's completely reasonable to believe that many foreigners know more about the United States Constitution than our citizens. It's sad, but doesn't mean it isn't true.

It also does not mean it is true. Also the same could be said about many US citizens and their knowledge about other countries around the world; and I'm talking about most educated people with a degree (sarcastically looking at the middle-east and their gimme bs and their religion=free degree over there...right).

[schwarzkopf]

The USA also used to innovate.

Innovation in the US is constipated because of the legal system, that same system that drove the costs of health up to the point the government needs to intervene to allow people to get it.

Who once said "Kill all the lawyers" ?