View Poll Results: Agree?

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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    He is calling the second amendment outdated.
    lol, he can't be saying that. We're probably more likely now for a government to become what the forefathers wished to prevent than we ever were before.

  2. #662
    Legendary! Jaxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    lol, he can't be saying that. We're probably more likely now for a government to become what the forefathers wished to prevent than we ever were before.
    I sure don't agree with him. I don't know who said this, but I think it is relevant:
    "Your rights are your security. When you, 'give up your rights for security, it's not security you get, but slavery."
    Quote Originally Posted by Imadraenei View Post
    You can find that unbiased view somewhere between Atlantis and that unicorn farm down the street, just off Interstate √(-1).

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    I sure don't agree with him. I don't know who said this, but I think it is relevant:
    "Your rights are your security. When you, 'give up your rights for security, it's not security you get, but slavery."
    Sounds like good ol' Ben Franklin to me. I knew we put him on our $100 bill for a reason.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamfix View Post
    Name a use for a gun other than killing or maiming something. It's a pretty limited "tool."
    Hell, quite commonly they're used to threaten or intimidate someone into acquiescing to the wielders desires.

    A simple example would be concept of armed robbery. The suspect brandishing a gun walks up to you on the street, demands your wallet, cell phone, keys, etc. You, fearing for your life, hand over your valuables and the suspect flees the scene.

    The reason I used the simple street mugging as an example is because it is the most common type of robbery within the US, accounting for 43% of all robberies in 2009. (the most recent data I could acquire)

    For those who talk about the chances of an armed robber entering your home I'm going to throw some number at you, bear with me this is US data, as it is my home country and the easiest for me to find all the statistics I was looking for.

    Once again we go back to 2009 since its the one year I can find all these coinciding figures.

    First off, the definition of Robbery per the US Department of Justice:

    Robbery is the completed or attempted theft, directly from a person, of property or cash by force or threat of force, with or without a weapon, and with or without injury.

    408,742 Robberies committed in the US
    16% Percentage of Robberies committed within a persons residence

    Which means in 2009 65,399 robberies were committed in someone's home in 2009 in the US.

    48% Percentage of robberies in which a weapon was used
    27% Percentage of robberies in which a firearm was used

    Now, if we carry the percentages down that means that 17,657 robberies committed in someone's personal residence involved the use of a firearm in 2009.

    Now in 2010 (sorry they only do the census every 10 years) there were 131,704,730 households within the US.

    Statistically speaking, the average household in the US has a .013% chance of being robbed by someone with firearm. Which is only slightly higher than your chances of being struck by lightning in your lifetime, approximately .01% chance.

    Sources:
    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.html
    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=43
    http://www.bancrime.com/articles/us-robbery-statistics
    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
    http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm

    That being said I do own a number of firearms, and while I hope I never have to use it, I do have one specifically for the concept of home defense. Its loaded and resides either in the locked gun safe when we're out or by my nightstand when we're in bed.

    Its a 410 gauge side by side (for those unfamiliar with it, its the smallest bore shotgun, double barrel) left barrel's loaded with bird shot for that 19% that would rob me with a weapon other than a gun, right barrel's solid slug, for those who show up packing heat. Unfortunately, I'm a very sound sleeper and my girlfriends more likely to meet them with her Ruger loaded with .357 frangibles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  5. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    I sure don't agree with him. I don't know who said this, but I think it is relevant:
    "Your rights are your security. When you, 'give up your rights for security, it's not security you get, but slavery."
    True that. Here's another good one:

    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 12:03 AM ----------

    16% Percentage of Robberies committed within a persons residence
    Wow, this really struck me as a surprising figure. I am really shocked this number is as low as it is, but I guess it makes sense to ambush somebody walking on the street or in their car, as opposed to in somebody's home where a full gun case may or may not be located. Interesting.

    Definitely all the more reason to get a CHL when I hit the big 21.
    Last edited by kleinlax21; 2012-05-02 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Double post like a baws
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    Stop dating strippers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Kleinlax21 who is on your 'side' had no problem doing so.He also doesn't need to attack me in literally every sentence he types.

  6. #666
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    Fire guns are easily and can do ineffective kills and hard to letting policemen to catch the murders
    also is much easier and faster to kill some one while driving car
    Last edited by Nikez; 2012-05-02 at 05:07 AM.

  7. #667
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikez View Post
    Fire guns are easily and can do ineffective kills and hard to letting policemen to catch the murders
    Thanks for this, adding to my sig
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regennis View Post
    Stop dating strippers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Kleinlax21 who is on your 'side' had no problem doing so.He also doesn't need to attack me in literally every sentence he types.

  8. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    Depends on where you are. As has been stated a million times over, even if the risk is minimal, I will not take the chance with my family's safety in my house. No. Never. It is an extremely irresponsible notion and incredibly naive to plan your family's safety around the belief that the criminal inside your house is not there to harm you. Maybe he is, maybe he is not, I'm not taking a chance. I'll shoot him (with my .45) and regret nothing.
    Changed this to fix my needs.

    Honestly people I really do not understand some of the real hostility here. If you live in America and you want something changed, guess what? You should lobby for it and write your Senators/Representatives. Your opinions do not mean shit unless they're the opinion of many willing to vote and change the laws in our country. Other than that you can bitch and moan all you want but until a law comes down and says law abiding citizens can no longer carry their sidearm, openly or concealed, I'm going to carry and I will feel safer in doing so.

    Most of you bitching against really come off as those people that think the world is rainbows and kittens all around. Sorry but it's not, it's a rather dark place filled with demons. In the three years I have been carrying I have come across 17 situations where I have found myself within my rights to draw my weapon and defend myself or defend someone who was unable to do so. Out of those 17 I have actually drawn my weapon one time, choosing to see how the other 16 situations played out or attempted to disarm the situation myself. In the one situation where I actually drew my weapon the store clerk beat me to it and pulled out a shotgun and scared the guy away. Here is my point: Some of us carry to help defend you. Not all of us are these psycho hellbent rednecks you portray us to be.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 12:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    Thanks for this, adding to my sig
    I lol'd. Literacy is fun.

  9. #669
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikez View Post
    also is much easier and faster to kill some one while driving car
    I find this hard to believe. In order to kill a person with a car, you'd need a good hit on a person with a car going at least 50 miles per hour (~80kph). And you'd need to keep them from moving and receiving only a glancing blow. And congrats, have fun hiding the blood and human-shaped impression on the front of your car.

    Somebody can use a gun to instantly and accurately kill a person from up to a mile away while leaving next to no trace of the crime. The killing effectiveness of guns compared to cars is why we don't have a "Anti-Personel Car Collision Specialist Squad" in the military.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 12:25 AM ----------

    Here is my point: Some of us carry to help defend you. Not all of us are these psycho hellbent rednecks you portray us to be.
    This accurately describes about 99% of Americans with carry permits. The more sheepdogs that guard the flock, the harder the wolves have to work in order to inflict pain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regennis View Post
    Stop dating strippers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Kleinlax21 who is on your 'side' had no problem doing so.He also doesn't need to attack me in literally every sentence he types.

  10. #670
    It's kinda funny how afraid a lot of americans are.

    We fucked up and now there is so much crime, what to do? Let's give everyone guns so they can figure it out themselves.
    Have fun with your rights. Maybe instead of defending your gun rights it's better to find another solution to your crime problems.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 08:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MyDisciple View Post
    Thankfully in most places in this country there is no duty to retreat when in your home. Our government recognizes that it's a natural right to be secure in your abode. Which interestingly is an idea that precedes the US. You want to waive that right and leave during a home invasion, be my guest. The notion that we should just have to put up with criminals terrorizing people where they should feel most secure is pretty disturbing really. I also don't understand the idea that people put that much value into criminals. I think for the most part they're entitled to the same rights I am, but they waive those rights when they start stepping on mine. This seems pretty fair to me.

    Criminals are a burden though, they take our stuff, kill and rape our neighbors and sell our kids drugs. Then when we catch them we have to pay for their room and board and the burden they put on the justice system. Needless to say, I don't lose any sleep when a criminal dies while committing a crime. Though that's not to say I jump for joy either.
    There must be a better solution. Or do you really think everyone having guns isn't causing problems?

    It's also only items they steal from your home. You think pulling out a gun and potentially making things worse for your family is a good solution? Yes, they are terrorizing you but shooting them doesn't make you feel better. And next time they come with more guys and more weapons.

  11. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post

    There must be a better solution. Or do you really think everyone having guns isn't causing problems?

    It's also only items they steal from your home. You think pulling out a gun and potentially making things worse for your family is a good solution? Yes, they are terrorizing you but shooting them doesn't make you feel better. And next time they come with more guys and more weapons.
    There will not be a next time because we all have automatic weapons with brain seeking tracer ammunition duh.


    But really, there will not be a "next time." If they enter my home unlawfully I will lawfully end their life. They made their choice, I will make mine. I will not lose one minute of sleep over it either.

    Edit: Shooting them does make me feel better.
    Last edited by Astounded; 2012-05-02 at 09:07 AM.

  12. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin
    A person who is unwilling to limit his capacity to do whatever he wants whenever he wants for the benefit and gains of being part of a society has no place in a society - Me

    Ben Franklin likely did not mean what the quote says. But if he did he is wrong.

    Entering a society you sacrifice freedoms all around, you do this because if certain things are allowed to you they are allowed to others and that would make things unsafe. You do not have the freedom to enter a house and get whatever you want and leave, you do not have the freedom to kill someone so he stops talking about banning guns (however much you might want to lol, nah i doubt you do, Americans tend to believe in freedom of speech far enough to allow that) You likely want neither freedom and you most likely do not want others to have those freedoms

    There are some.. freedoms that must be protected because they are what allows you to change what freedoms you do not have. Freedom of speech (Freedom of opinion) comes to mind. The right to organize yourself in a political party of your choosing to promote a point of view in a non violent manner for sure whatever your point of view may be. Or rather democracy does not exist without such freedoms. There are others. A bunch of freedoms and rights that protect your right to promote whatever other rights you believe you should have. Lets call that democratic freedom? There are some dangers that some of these rights are getting fudged into uselessness of course or manipulated into oblivion

    There are also a load of freedoms where the safety gained by sacrificing them is at best negligible and more likely debatable. Those should not be sacrificed either because what would be the point? What would be the point of.. limiting the amount of shampoo you bring on a plane, it would do nothing for safet... oh wait you sacrificed that one as did we all (well i did not since i tend not to fly, lucky me)

    But as long as the democratic core freedoms are guaranteed, let us include the right for people to distribute their opinion as well since without a free media you get distorted truths only as opposed to mostly distorted truth, but as long as those are there anything else can be achieved when and if it is needed [do not count what rights i mention a completely list of what freedoms you must have, i am hardly a master of whatever soft pseudo science is involved]

    You can argue that the freedoms i say people sacrifice are more for the safety of others than for the safety of self but i would argue that you would not sacrifice yours if not for the benefit of you

    You can also argue that when you sacrifice freedoms it would be easy to end up sacrificing one too many and loosing the ability to prevent loosing even more until you have none left. I most certainly agree, freedoms should not be blindly abandoned

    That being said and all being said i said i am not arguing that the USA should prohibit guns, i may not believe it benefits you and in fact i may believe it harms you but it is your democratic right to choose to add freedoms to your repertoire. You can do that because of your basic democratic rights. If you wanted as a society the right to bear and use anti tank rockets (those are called rockets?) then it is your privilege. Enjoy the freedoms you want. I just want to retain my right to say i think having such weapons serves no purpose and does not guarantee your safety in case of a robber

    Now in a moment someone will say that i say what i say because i am European and we sacrifice our freedoms left and right. Before you do remember 9/11, remember what freedoms you sacrificed with great rejoicing. Remember you did so for one reason and one reason only: Security. Granted i believe all those freedoms should not have been sacrificed for that but i am free to believe what i want, that is guaranteed by the basic democratic rights i do promote

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    Wow, this really struck me as a surprising figure. I am really shocked this number is as low as it is, but I guess it makes sense to ambush somebody walking on the street or in their car, as opposed to in somebody's home where a full gun case may or may not be located. Interesting.

    Definitely all the more reason to get a CHL when I hit the big 21.
    I was surprised at how low it was as well, but considering it doesn't take into account acts of burglary with no one home. In which case it is unknown as to whether or not the suspect was armed at the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  14. #674
    High Overlord Zzeeuuss's Avatar
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    What I you just made bullets really expensive? Like REALLY expensive?

    That way people could still have their guns but the bullets well you'd need to REALLY want to kill someone to do so?

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by Zzeeuuss View Post
    What I you just made bullets really expensive? Like REALLY expensive?

    That way people could still have their guns but the bullets well you'd need to REALLY want to kill someone to do so?
    It is not that hard to produce bullets at home.

  16. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    Now in a moment someone will say that i say what i say because i am European and we sacrifice our freedoms left and right. Before you do remember 9/11, remember what freedoms you sacrificed with great rejoicing. Remember you did so for one reason and one reason only: Security. Granted i believe all those freedoms should not have been sacrificed for that but i am free to believe what i want, that is guaranteed by the basic democratic rights i do promote
    This issue is one of those that is an absolute culturclash man, they think we are irresponsible and naive, we think they are a bit on the crazy side/fearmongering. :P

    I can understand people wanting a firearm for the defense of their family, I just hope they understand that not having one isn't automatically making you into an irresponsible or naive parent/husband/whatever, many people here probably look at it from the opposit way, that it is irresponsible to allow a sociaty to arm itself.

    We don't live in totalitarian socities because of us not having a 2nd amendment, we live in free and democratic countries, we just collectivly choose not to have something like the 2nd amendment because we think this benifits our sociaties, we don't risk the neck of our families(we really don't) because of it, if we did I suspect we might have laws more in line of that with the US.

    As it is now, there is no need for it, again this is not us being irresponsible, please realize that.
    The thing is we are not even very strict on gun ownership in my country(around 2mil legally owned firearms, across a population of 9,5mil), yet still gunownership is going down here, it's not that people are forced to not own firearms, but it's a choice a lot of people do, sure some of our provinces still got quite a lot of gunowners, the Jämtland province is topping at around 20% of the population owning a firearm, the provinces at the top are all up in the north, where there are huge areas of wilderness, which makes for great hunting grounds.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuger View Post
    Not really.
    Cut Brake lines in car
    lube up tub
    smash in skull while sleeping
    Fire $3.10 a gallon
    unbalance fridge so that open door causes it to fall forward.
    I'm sorry but I have read each of your posts up to this one and I refuse to believe anyone is actually as stupid as you are being in this thread. are you saying it is easier to break into someones house and mess around in thier kitchen with one of their appliances then it is to walk up to them and shoot them in the face? Not to mention the fact that a fridge falling forward on someone is HIGHLY unlikely to kill them.

    I also am from Ireland and can confirm we have an unarmed police-force, I would point out too that we had 30 years of terrorist activity in our country and the numbers of police shot was to my knowledge still in single figures. The problem to me, stems from the "I'd rather have one then need one" mentality it would appear to me that in the states everyone assumes everyone has a gun, and is determined to get their retaliation in first, which considering your foreign polocy is hardly surprising.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 12:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zzeeuuss View Post
    What I you just made bullets really expensive? Like REALLY expensive?

    That way people could still have their guns but the bullets well you'd need to REALLY want to kill someone to do so?
    Chris Rock called he says he wants his joke back

  18. #678
    High Overlord Zzeeuuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane101 View Post
    I'm sorry but I have read each of your posts up to this one and I refuse to believe anyone is actually as stupid as you are being in this thread. are you saying it is easier to break into someones house and mess around in thier kitchen with one of their appliances then it is to walk up to them and shoot them in the face? Not to mention the fact that a fridge falling forward on someone is HIGHLY unlikely to kill them.

    I also am from Ireland and can confirm we have an unarmed police-force, I would point out too that we had 30 years of terrorist activity in our country and the numbers of police shot was to my knowledge still in single figures. The problem to me, stems from the "I'd rather have one then need one" mentality it would appear to me that in the states everyone assumes everyone has a gun, and is determined to get their retaliation in first, which considering your foreign polocy is hardly surprising.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 12:23 PM ----------



    Chris Rock called he says he wants his joke back
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  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    It's kinda funny how afraid a lot of Americans are.
    Well they can't be afraid of too much, since they are armed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    We fucked up and now there is so much crime, what to do? Let's give everyone guns so they can figure it out themselves.
    Have fun with your rights. Maybe instead of defending your gun rights it's better to find another solution to your crime problems.
    Since rolling back gun laws and letting people carry their guns in public the crime rate has gone down, or stayed about the same, in every place it was been done.

    So that does look like a solution to our crime problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    There must be a better solution. Or do you really think everyone having guns isn't causing problems?
    It isn't. The most armed parts of this country also have the lowest average crime rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    It's also only items they steal from your home. You think pulling out a gun and potentially making things worse for your family is a good solution? Yes, they are terrorizing you but shooting them doesn't make you feel better. And next time they come with more guys and more weapons.
    Shooting them wont make the shooter feel better but it will stop the threat. Also the criminal probably wont have a "next time" to think about.

  20. #680
    Legendary! Maxilian's Avatar
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    I personally think that, NOONE should have a gun (civilians), only the authority... Why? because we want or not, there will be people who ilegaly will have guns, and the authorities need something to defend themself and the country agains these people...

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