View Poll Results: Agree?

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  • I agree

    165 35.33%
  • I disagree

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  1. #661
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    Thankfully in most places in this country there is no duty to retreat when in your home. Our government recognizes that it's a natural right to be secure in your abode. Which interestingly is an idea that precedes the US. You want to waive that right and leave during a home invasion, be my guest. The notion that we should just have to put up with criminals terrorizing people where they should feel most secure is pretty disturbing really. I also don't understand the idea that people put that much value into criminals. I think for the most part they're entitled to the same rights I am, but they waive those rights when they start stepping on mine. This seems pretty fair to me.

    Criminals are a burden though, they take our stuff, kill and rape our neighbors and sell our kids drugs. Then when we catch them we have to pay for their room and board and the burden they put on the justice system. Needless to say, I don't lose any sleep when a criminal dies while committing a crime. Though that's not to say I jump for joy either.
    Last edited by MyDisciple; 2012-05-02 at 12:50 AM.

  2. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post
    incorrect.. getting drunk and running over someone is the easiest and most efficient way to kill someone.. here in Washington state the penalty for that is only 24-48 months in prison.. shooting someone to death is at least 72...
    Great comeback genius. We are keeping this conversation in the contest of owning guns. That's what the topic is about. Please don't go off topic with something not related to guns. Also people who buy/drive a car are not using this as a weapon. The reason why prison sentences are less is because most of the time you are not intentionally gettin in you vehicle to kill someone.

    Again I put context of "most efficient" in terms of a weapon. I can't believe people are trying to argue that knives are just as deadly (go as a trauma or E.R. surgeon) and bombs (again bombs are illegal from the start).
    Last edited by Shon237; 2012-05-02 at 12:57 AM.

  3. #663
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    A car is just as much a deadly weapon as a gun or a knife. Guns are already illegal for criminals to own.
    Last edited by MyDisciple; 2012-05-02 at 12:56 AM.

  4. #664
    Brewmaster Shon237's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyDisciple View Post
    A car is just as much a deadly weapon as a gun or a knife. Guns are already illegal for criminals to own.
    So is a lion but most people don't use a lion as a weapon. Luz. Yeah guns are illegal for criminals to own but how do criminals get them? They dont sit and wish for them and the gun fairy appears. They are acquired most of the time by two ways. 1) They are actually stolen from legal gun owners and 2) Middlemen and sometimes legal gun owners who purchase legal guns either through wholesale (gun dealer) or buy from a gun dealer (middleman) then sell them to the criminal. So having a more strict gun law or as post states never own a gun would greatly reduce. I'll admit it won't stop criminals gettin hold of guns completely nothing never will.

  5. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shon237 View Post
    So is a lion but most people don't use a lion as a weapon. Luz. Yeah guns are illegal for criminals to own but how do criminals get them? They dont sit and wish for them and the gun fairy appears. They are acquired most of the time by two ways. 1) They are actually stolen from legal gun owners and 2) Middlemen and sometimes legal gun owners who purchase legal guns either through wholesale (gun dealer) or buy from a gun dealer (middleman) then sell them to the criminal. So having a more strict gun law or as post states never own a gun would greatly reduce. I'll admit it won't stop criminals gettin hold of guns completely nothing never will.
    Then push for more people owning gun safes and enforcement on existing laws that prohibit the sale of guns to a felon.

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    The constitution didn't have adaptive measures to keep up with a changing/evolving society. Gun control should no longer be gun control as much as gun prohibition.
    What exactly do you mean by this?

  7. #667
    Though this would probably be how the case was a lot of years ago and I would reckon some time in the future, I don't actually see it working quite well with the current setup we have now.

    People just seem to be too attach and emotional at times that making these things available to them would rather cause much problems that help the system. But that is just my opinion.

  8. #668
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    Don't see the need for hand guns. Home defense/hunting = shotgun/rifle. If you have the need to hide your gun, then you probably shouldn't have it.

  9. #669
    Scarab Lord Jaxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    What exactly do you mean by this?
    He is calling the second amendment outdated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imadraenei View Post
    You can find that unbiased view somewhere between Atlantis and that unicorn farm down the street, just off Interstate √(-1).

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    He is calling the second amendment outdated.
    lol, he can't be saying that. We're probably more likely now for a government to become what the forefathers wished to prevent than we ever were before.

  11. #671
    Scarab Lord Jaxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    lol, he can't be saying that. We're probably more likely now for a government to become what the forefathers wished to prevent than we ever were before.
    I sure don't agree with him. I don't know who said this, but I think it is relevant:
    "Your rights are your security. When you, 'give up your rights for security, it's not security you get, but slavery."
    Quote Originally Posted by Imadraenei View Post
    You can find that unbiased view somewhere between Atlantis and that unicorn farm down the street, just off Interstate √(-1).

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    I sure don't agree with him. I don't know who said this, but I think it is relevant:
    "Your rights are your security. When you, 'give up your rights for security, it's not security you get, but slavery."
    Sounds like good ol' Ben Franklin to me. I knew we put him on our $100 bill for a reason.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamfix View Post
    Name a use for a gun other than killing or maiming something. It's a pretty limited "tool."
    Hell, quite commonly they're used to threaten or intimidate someone into acquiescing to the wielders desires.

    A simple example would be concept of armed robbery. The suspect brandishing a gun walks up to you on the street, demands your wallet, cell phone, keys, etc. You, fearing for your life, hand over your valuables and the suspect flees the scene.

    The reason I used the simple street mugging as an example is because it is the most common type of robbery within the US, accounting for 43% of all robberies in 2009. (the most recent data I could acquire)

    For those who talk about the chances of an armed robber entering your home I'm going to throw some number at you, bear with me this is US data, as it is my home country and the easiest for me to find all the statistics I was looking for.

    Once again we go back to 2009 since its the one year I can find all these coinciding figures.

    First off, the definition of Robbery per the US Department of Justice:

    Robbery is the completed or attempted theft, directly from a person, of property or cash by force or threat of force, with or without a weapon, and with or without injury.

    408,742 Robberies committed in the US
    16% Percentage of Robberies committed within a persons residence

    Which means in 2009 65,399 robberies were committed in someone's home in 2009 in the US.

    48% Percentage of robberies in which a weapon was used
    27% Percentage of robberies in which a firearm was used

    Now, if we carry the percentages down that means that 17,657 robberies committed in someone's personal residence involved the use of a firearm in 2009.

    Now in 2010 (sorry they only do the census every 10 years) there were 131,704,730 households within the US.

    Statistically speaking, the average household in the US has a .013% chance of being robbed by someone with firearm. Which is only slightly higher than your chances of being struck by lightning in your lifetime, approximately .01% chance.

    Sources:
    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.html
    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=43
    http://www.bancrime.com/articles/us-robbery-statistics
    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
    http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm

    That being said I do own a number of firearms, and while I hope I never have to use it, I do have one specifically for the concept of home defense. Its loaded and resides either in the locked gun safe when we're out or by my nightstand when we're in bed.

    Its a 410 gauge side by side (for those unfamiliar with it, its the smallest bore shotgun, double barrel) left barrel's loaded with bird shot for that 19% that would rob me with a weapon other than a gun, right barrel's solid slug, for those who show up packing heat. Unfortunately, I'm a very sound sleeper and my girlfriends more likely to meet them with her Ruger loaded with .357 frangibles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  14. #674
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    I sure don't agree with him. I don't know who said this, but I think it is relevant:
    "Your rights are your security. When you, 'give up your rights for security, it's not security you get, but slavery."
    True that. Here's another good one:

    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 12:03 AM ----------

    16% Percentage of Robberies committed within a persons residence
    Wow, this really struck me as a surprising figure. I am really shocked this number is as low as it is, but I guess it makes sense to ambush somebody walking on the street or in their car, as opposed to in somebody's home where a full gun case may or may not be located. Interesting.

    Definitely all the more reason to get a CHL when I hit the big 21.
    Last edited by kleinlax21; 2012-05-02 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Double post like a baws
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regennis View Post
    Stop dating strippers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Kleinlax21 who is on your 'side' had no problem doing so.He also doesn't need to attack me in literally every sentence he types.

  15. #675
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    Fire guns are easily and can do ineffective kills and hard to letting policemen to catch the murders
    also is much easier and faster to kill some one while driving car
    Last edited by Nikez; 2012-05-02 at 05:07 AM.

  16. #676
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikez View Post
    Fire guns are easily and can do ineffective kills and hard to letting policemen to catch the murders
    Thanks for this, adding to my sig
    Armories: Death Knight / Paladin
    Quote Originally Posted by Regennis View Post
    Stop dating strippers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Kleinlax21 who is on your 'side' had no problem doing so.He also doesn't need to attack me in literally every sentence he types.

  17. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    Depends on where you are. As has been stated a million times over, even if the risk is minimal, I will not take the chance with my family's safety in my house. No. Never. It is an extremely irresponsible notion and incredibly naive to plan your family's safety around the belief that the criminal inside your house is not there to harm you. Maybe he is, maybe he is not, I'm not taking a chance. I'll shoot him (with my .45) and regret nothing.
    Changed this to fix my needs.

    Honestly people I really do not understand some of the real hostility here. If you live in America and you want something changed, guess what? You should lobby for it and write your Senators/Representatives. Your opinions do not mean shit unless they're the opinion of many willing to vote and change the laws in our country. Other than that you can bitch and moan all you want but until a law comes down and says law abiding citizens can no longer carry their sidearm, openly or concealed, I'm going to carry and I will feel safer in doing so.

    Most of you bitching against really come off as those people that think the world is rainbows and kittens all around. Sorry but it's not, it's a rather dark place filled with demons. In the three years I have been carrying I have come across 17 situations where I have found myself within my rights to draw my weapon and defend myself or defend someone who was unable to do so. Out of those 17 I have actually drawn my weapon one time, choosing to see how the other 16 situations played out or attempted to disarm the situation myself. In the one situation where I actually drew my weapon the store clerk beat me to it and pulled out a shotgun and scared the guy away. Here is my point: Some of us carry to help defend you. Not all of us are these psycho hellbent rednecks you portray us to be.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 12:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    Thanks for this, adding to my sig
    I lol'd. Literacy is fun.

  18. #678
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikez View Post
    also is much easier and faster to kill some one while driving car
    I find this hard to believe. In order to kill a person with a car, you'd need a good hit on a person with a car going at least 50 miles per hour (~80kph). And you'd need to keep them from moving and receiving only a glancing blow. And congrats, have fun hiding the blood and human-shaped impression on the front of your car.

    Somebody can use a gun to instantly and accurately kill a person from up to a mile away while leaving next to no trace of the crime. The killing effectiveness of guns compared to cars is why we don't have a "Anti-Personel Car Collision Specialist Squad" in the military.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 12:25 AM ----------

    Here is my point: Some of us carry to help defend you. Not all of us are these psycho hellbent rednecks you portray us to be.
    This accurately describes about 99% of Americans with carry permits. The more sheepdogs that guard the flock, the harder the wolves have to work in order to inflict pain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regennis View Post
    Stop dating strippers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZRebellion View Post
    Kleinlax21 who is on your 'side' had no problem doing so.He also doesn't need to attack me in literally every sentence he types.

  19. #679
    It's kinda funny how afraid a lot of americans are.

    We fucked up and now there is so much crime, what to do? Let's give everyone guns so they can figure it out themselves.
    Have fun with your rights. Maybe instead of defending your gun rights it's better to find another solution to your crime problems.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 08:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MyDisciple View Post
    Thankfully in most places in this country there is no duty to retreat when in your home. Our government recognizes that it's a natural right to be secure in your abode. Which interestingly is an idea that precedes the US. You want to waive that right and leave during a home invasion, be my guest. The notion that we should just have to put up with criminals terrorizing people where they should feel most secure is pretty disturbing really. I also don't understand the idea that people put that much value into criminals. I think for the most part they're entitled to the same rights I am, but they waive those rights when they start stepping on mine. This seems pretty fair to me.

    Criminals are a burden though, they take our stuff, kill and rape our neighbors and sell our kids drugs. Then when we catch them we have to pay for their room and board and the burden they put on the justice system. Needless to say, I don't lose any sleep when a criminal dies while committing a crime. Though that's not to say I jump for joy either.
    There must be a better solution. Or do you really think everyone having guns isn't causing problems?

    It's also only items they steal from your home. You think pulling out a gun and potentially making things worse for your family is a good solution? Yes, they are terrorizing you but shooting them doesn't make you feel better. And next time they come with more guys and more weapons.

  20. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post

    There must be a better solution. Or do you really think everyone having guns isn't causing problems?

    It's also only items they steal from your home. You think pulling out a gun and potentially making things worse for your family is a good solution? Yes, they are terrorizing you but shooting them doesn't make you feel better. And next time they come with more guys and more weapons.
    There will not be a next time because we all have automatic weapons with brain seeking tracer ammunition duh.


    But really, there will not be a "next time." If they enter my home unlawfully I will lawfully end their life. They made their choice, I will make mine. I will not lose one minute of sleep over it either.

    Edit: Shooting them does make me feel better.
    Last edited by Astounded; 2012-05-02 at 09:07 AM.

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