Human racial and pvp!

[Funkthepunk]

:: People play human to use OP PvE Trinkets
:: Blizz change it so PVP Trinkets are more OP than PvE Trinkets
:: Humans now have 2 PvP Trinkets that are more OP than the PvE ones
:: This fixes the problem

:: Logic

PvP CC breaker trinkets have the same stats as other PvP trinkets. Only difference is the proc/on use effect which isnt that great (can be compared to troll berserking/blood fury). If Blizzard can avoid PvPers using PvE trinkets then the only difference between a human and a non-human will be the battlemaster effect/dps booster proc which while being useful hardly is more gamebreaking than goblin jump, dark flight, war stomp, will of the forsaken etc.

[Obelodalix]

But look at this

You do realize that's either a) not vengeance or b) shopped, right?

Vengeance is actually a horde dominated BG with most of the high teams coming from Ysondre (French) and Mug'thol (German).

There's a couple Alliance dominated BGs too, like Blutdurst, where Aegwynn is just about the only server that has active PvPers; but realistically, most high rated teams are actually Horde - Blackout, Cataclysm, Cruelty, Emberstorm, Reckoning and, most of all, Cyclone all have significantly more Horde teams in their top 10-20 in 3v3 than they have Alliance. It's not about the racials, it's all about what realm dominates what BG and what faction is more represented on said server, everyone will more there regardless so they have more option far as teams and team mates go regardless of racials.

[Korgoth]

You do realize that's either a) not vengeance or b) shopped, right?

Vengeance is actually a horde dominated BG with most of the high teams coming from Ysondre (French) and Mug'thol (German).

There's a couple Alliance dominated BGs too, like Blutdurst, where Aegwynn is just about the only server that has active PvPers; but realistically, most high rated teams are actually Horde - Blackout, Cataclysm, Cruelty, Emberstorm, Reckoning and, most of all, Cyclone all have significantly more Horde teams in their top 10-20 in 3v3 than they have Alliance. It's not about the racials, it's all about what realm dominates what BG and what faction is more represented on said server, everyone will more there regardless so they have more option far as teams and team mates go regardless of racials.

Yeah he was probably meaning this vengeance:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/vengeance/3v3

I went Alliance at the start of Cata not because of racial but because of RBG queue times and the fact that most pvpers were going Alliance and if you want to play and play alot you go where the population is. I went gnome at first, I then went human after the 4.06 nerf gutted my warriors damage to try and see if that helped, and it really didnt. If the pvp tide moved back Horde side then I'd move back, the racial is not that big of a deal. Blood Fury and Stun Reduction isnt a huge drop from having the second trinket proc. It just isnt.

Though I think the way Blizzard should have fixed the human racial was giving humans a new one, and giving everyone a trinket ability. It's one of the very few things SWTOR got right and Blizzard should follow suit. The CC break trinket is mandatory, which makes it bad game design as it reduces the players choices, and should have been implemented as a core ability.

[Obelodalix]

Yeah he was probably meaning this vengeance:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/vengeance/3v3

Oh wow there's a US Vengeance? Didn't actually know, my bad, the ratings seemed far too similar to our EU one that I thought it'd just be a shopped image someone put together for the sake of the argument.

But yeah, seems to be the same thing happening as we have going in Europe, that Korgath realm is overpopulated compared to every other one in the battlegroup and thus everyone goes there and plays on the dominant faction. And by flipping through the US realms quickly you guys do seem to have quite a few more "Alliance" battlegroups than we do - Rampage, Retaliation and Stormstrike are the only ones that seem to be predominantly Horde, compared to like 6 or 7 of the opposite faction.

[rektlol]

Human racial is OP for certain comps, namely burst comps. Triple DPS/RMP comes to mind. There are games where we lose (RMP) when in the opener we get the shaman to 5%. If we were human we would've landed that kill. Why? Coz me and the rogue would have 2k extra spell power/attack power. Humans are just better full stop, there's no question about it.

On the US servers though, everyone goes ally. There aren't any 'horde dominated' BG's but there certainly are ally dominated ones.

I went Alliance at the start of Cata not because of racial but because of RBG queue times and the fact that most pvpers were going Alliance and if you want to play and play alot you go where the population is. I went gnome at first, I then went human after the 4.06 nerf gutted my warriors damage to try and see if that helped, and it really didnt. If the pvp tide moved back Horde side then I'd move back, the racial is not that big of a deal. Blood Fury and Stun Reduction isnt a huge drop from having the second trinket proc. It just isnt.

It's only a big deal now because Locks/rogues/hunters/rets have access to stupid PvE trinkets (cunning, vial, bonelink) on top of 2k extra on use. It was the same in wrath, a human warrior with DBW and that trinket which procc'd ARP tore shit apart.

Personally, the only way they'll fix it whilst staying true to their philosophy is to make 'Insignia' trinkets offer more of a baseline PvP Power. For instance (hypothetical) The Insignia offers say 200 resil and 400 PvP power where as the Badge of Dominance had 200 Resil and 200 PvP power. This means if you got the Insignia and the Badge you'd have 600 PvP power as oppose to 2 PvP trinkets which would give you 400 PvP Power. What this does is it gives everyones sustained PvP Damage a boost, whilst humans could get the Badge and the Proc chance for less sustained PvP Power but more bursty when both trinkets are procc'd.

[Sstrevorson414]

Sounds to me like alot of horde players are forgetting about berserking, or the troll mini hero, or aoe silence, or aoe stun, or will of the forsaken. EMFH is powerful, but isnt that far above the horde racials.

[Malgru]

Well I'm switching to NE. Finally. I hate humans but their racial is just too, too good.

[wiep]

But thats the thing. The racial lets them skip the cc-trinket which is the big problem here.
If they dont fix the racial then humans will get 2 new imba pvp-trinkets instead and none of them being a cc-trinket.

THey need to remove humans cc-trinket racial for it to become balanced.

The only fair and balanced thing to do is to copy the model used in other MMOs for instance swtor.
Give all characters a baseline cc-breaker and let everyone use any 2 trinkets they want.
Make the racials a flavor-thing and not a gamebreaking matter.

Problem solved!

Then remove every other racial that can be used in pvp, like WotF, silence tauren stun etc. Humans need something unique and good to use in PvP. I think they will solve it.

[Shyzhi]

I think every races racials are good / bad in ways. I tihnk they should just do a full redo on them all... some people find warstomp useless (i love it) people find other ones useless. I think ALL races should have a PvE and PvP based racial. Be it just.. 5% more resist, or... chance on hit to gain XX or somthing. Somhting so all classes are "Balanced" in a sence, ofc you want things to be different its just how there layed out.

[TJ]

I think every races racials are good / bad in ways. I tihnk they should just do a full redo on them all... some people find warstomp useless (i love it) people find other ones useless. I think ALL races should have a PvE and PvP based racial. Be it just.. 5% more resist, or... chance on hit to gain XX or somthing. Somhting so all classes are "Balanced" in a sence, ofc you want things to be different its just how there layed out.

Personally I think people should be able to have a "pick and mix" sort of their character's racials, so you pick what racials you have rather than them being restricted to what race you are. Would make for some cool customisation and so that you don't have to play some ugly race just because their racials are superior. In the end though it comes down to Blizzard losing money which they would if they implemented this, the reason is because people will pay for the gains other races offer (and possibly numerous times), just look at Worgens and Goblins for example, how much money do you think they made off just that?

[Malgru]

Pick and mix on racials wouldn't exactly make them racials; moreso additional baseline abilities.

IMHO Night elf racials are so nice for healers. 2% miss chance, a vanish... Come on now. so many Scatter/silencing shots missed cause of that racial.

[DarthMonk79]

why do people honestly care if every class is balanced. its why there are different classes and races. otherwise they'd all just be one class/one race. So the human can get out of stuns.. learn to get around it. if you destroy a human in pvp then u can boast even more that you kicked their butt.

[TJ]

Pick and mix on racials wouldn't exactly make them racials; moreso additional baseline abilities.

IMHO Night elf racials are so nice for healers. 2% miss chance, a vanish... Come on now. so many Scatter/silencing shots missed cause of that racial.

Well they would be racials, just specific to your character. I see what you mean though, perhaps specialties or something would be a better word.

[valedo]

Top pvpers have an edge like this and if you want it too and feel like you're incredible random BG farming bot skills aren't suffice to compete in arena then reroll human or stay stuck at 1800 rating blaming stupid shit like this

[maldias]

wouldn't the logical course of action be:

increase human racial so that its 1 minute slower cool down than pvp trinkets.
Give human racial and pvp trinkets a shared cool down (i.e. if you pop trink and there is only 1 minute left on human racial CD, it gets reset to its full cool down duration)
Leaving EMFH useful in pve situations, but handicapping your stun breaking abilities if you still choose to equip double pve trinkets in pvp.

Don't hate my logic, nearly all my characters are human. On most, I was human before EMFH was implemented. I like my racial, but I understand it is used to gain some OP pvp conditions.

they did that, it didn't work at all.

and its not logical, a logical course of action would be to make pvp trinkets that mimics racial abilities.

like a trinket with a pop aoe silence with a power return(like the BE racial), or a trinket with a sprint(like the worgen racial).
this way the racial aren't so dominating in pvp as their available to everyone.

[wakarimas]

they did that, it didn't work at all.

and its not logical, a logical course of action would be to make pvp trinkets that mimics racial abilities.

like a trinket with a pop aoe silence with a power return(like the BE racial), or a trinket with a sprint(like the worgen racial).
this way the racial aren't so dominating in pvp as their available to everyone.

This would be the best way to do it. That way people could choose which "racial" would fit their comp the most and it would be fair for all.
Either the above or just give all the classes a cc-breakining racial and remove all the current racials. Problem solved.

[Angy]

Linking arena ladders perfectly shows that human racial is OP wit no mistakes at all, right? Damn the ignorance.

If a human is using the "op pve trinket" then that means he is lacking a lot of resillience. He should be hitting you harder due to his trinket and you should be hitting him harder because of his lack of resillience. If that isn't happening, then the problem lies within resillience or the mechanics of the "op pve trinkets".

Not to mention if players choose to use proper pvp trinkets, all they get for "human racial" is a lame proc trinket which isn't that good. (The on-use one is already there with or without human racial.)


Forgive me for saying this but the people that say "human racial is too strong" have just small amount of clue of what is going on. And no, I'm not human.

[Flaks]

It's as simple as giving humans a new racial (which I know Blizzard can do at the drop of a hat) and giving the pvp trinket "racial" ability to EVERYONE.

Voila, another step towards balancing low level PvP while not having this discrepancy any more at max level.

[Fenixdown]

they did that, it didn't work at all.

and its not logical, a logical course of action would be to make pvp trinkets that mimics racial abilities.

like a trinket with a pop aoe silence with a power return(like the BE racial), or a trinket with a sprint(like the worgen racial).
this way the racial aren't so dominating in pvp as their available to everyone.

I actually like this idea. Though then the issue becomes racials such as Will and Escape Artist, which only share a 30 (or 45? I forget) second cooldown with trinket. Everyone would just run with both of those and it would get very boring very fast.

As it is now, with the stat changes in MoP making PvE gear practically worthless in PvP formats (with maybe the exception of legendaries, but it's way too soon to tell on that one), I'd have to say humans (and perhaps, once again, Alliance in general) get the short end of the PvP stick yet again and the advantage swings drastically back to the Horde side.

But let me guess. An AoE silence with an additional resource restoration effect or a short shared cooldown breaking a CC effect used by about 60-70% of most compositions isn't broken in the least.

[Devypoo]

I think the human racial is fine