1. #1

    [WindWalker] Zen Sphere vs. Chi Burst

    Since the most recent built went live, I went ahead and tested both abilities. Here are a few observations of both based on level 87 stats:

    Zen Sphere:

    Requires two Chi.
    Instant Cast.
    Tooltip is confusing - As of now, the sphere only goes above the casters head or friendly targets, not enemy targets.
    If above a friendly target, it will heal for mid 10,000 each tick (And possibly do damage similar to being casted on yourself).
    If above the caster (yourself), it will deal mid 10,000 damage each tick.
    If around multiple hostile npc's, it will attack the target you're selecting.

    Chi Burst:

    Requires two Chi.
    .0883 second cast.
    Mildly slow travel time
    Hits for 13,000~.
    Heals for 8,000~.


    Tentative Observations:

    As they are now, I very much prefer Zen Sphere over Chi Burst. Not only does casting as a melee spec feel klunky, I'm sure it also cancels your auto-attack. Even if that was not the case, the output of Chi Burst which requires a cast time is lackluster compared to a "click and forget" ability like Zen Sphere. As for the healing aspect, Zen Sphere wins in both time cost and effective output.

    As a side note, the Chi Burst animation is currently an untextured block. Hurling blocks at mobs is actually quite fun

  2. #2
    Agreed. Zen Sphere is working nicely. I can Jab to get quick Chi and get it going on a few people at once. It works well with Life Cocoon and I can quickly discharge it heal up the grouped people. Chi Burst doesn't heal enough now (will probably work much better in raids) and I can't justify the cast time.

  3. #3
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    What do you think of Zen Sphere's size? Some feel that it is way too big. I personally think it looks pretty cool at that size.

    http://i.imgur.com/dNcGB.jpg

  4. #4
    I think the visual animation needs to be changed (even though I like it). The reason being is that it looks way too much like our chi spheres/healing spheres on the ground. Having to look for those in a raid environment is hard enough, let alone with something that looks very close to it.

  5. #5
    Cast time would break auto attack no? Make Sphere infinitely better.

  6. #6
    Zen Sphere pulses for healing. Does it pulse damage too? (been toying around with it; seems to sometimes).

    Would make Zen Sphere infinitely better just because of that, even if both were cast times.

    Edit: Also able to keep multiple Zen Sphere's active. Would make AoE rotations pretty interesting, I'd assume. (unless FoF/SCK were just always better)

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Zen Sphere is wildly overtuned at the moment. With regards to clumped-up AoE healing, it's far too good.

    On my Mistweaver, Zen Sphere is healing for about 13k per tick. Detonating it results in an AoE heal for about 35k and RESETS THE DURATION OF THE ZEN SPHERE.

    So it's 2 Chi for an incredibly large, bursty heal on top of a rather hefty DoT refreshing on one person. It's just way too good.

    EDIT: Oh I see - DPS discussion. Welp, it's still the same... Chi Burst is 2 Chi with a cast time to deal the same amount of damage at range as Zen Sphere pulses every 2 seconds in melee. Unless you're planning on spending a lot of time at range, there's no reason to have Chi Burst except for the wickedly cool casting animation.
    Last edited by Nikkaszal; 2012-04-29 at 01:08 AM.
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  8. #8
    Cast times are awful for melee classes, even Fists of Fury is a bitch to use. Zen Sphere by far.

  9. #9
    Zen Sphere makes more supporting role not for DPS, and i highly doubt that you will use it in your rotation as WW. For me as BM, it cause nice amount of healing (while guard is active) and btw, it can be active like 2+ sphere at a time on one person. Sounds good, isn't it?

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feelsgood View Post
    Zen Sphere makes more supporting role not for DPS, and i highly doubt that you will use it in your rotation as WW. For me as BM, it cause nice amount of healing (while guard is active) and btw, it can be active like 2+ sphere at a time on one person. Sounds good, isn't it?
    Wrong. With a Brewmaster Monk - tanking enchants and gems, not DPS chants and gems - Zen Sphere is ticking for about 8k damage every 2 seconds to the lowest HP target. There's 10 ticks per Zen Sphere. This is before Vengeance, when I'm out in the world hitting a single mob. Now apply this to a Windwalker monk with DPS stats.

    Zen Sphere's quite a nice source of damage for 2 Chi, plus it heals you for a ridiculously large amount for something that comes from a no-spellpower spec that's also dealing damage.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Wrong. With a Brewmaster Monk - tanking enchants and gems, not DPS chants and gems - Zen Sphere is ticking for about 8k damage every 2 seconds to the lowest HP target. There's 10 ticks per Zen Sphere. This is before Vengeance, when I'm out in the world hitting a single mob. Now apply this to a Windwalker monk with DPS stats.

    Zen Sphere's quite a nice source of damage for 2 Chi, plus it heals you for a ridiculously large amount for something that comes from a no-spellpower spec that's also dealing damage.
    Actually, this need to prove with math, what better, spend 2 chi for Tiger Palm x2 or spend 2 chi for Zen Sphere. But anyway, it's very strong heal on single target and AoE healing when detonate. I've thinking Zen Sphere may uses like a "DoT" effect but as i says it need to test.

    Sorry, for my english.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feelsgood View Post
    Actually, this need to prove with math, what better, spend 2 chi for Tiger Palm x2 or spend 2 chi for Zen Sphere. But anyway, it's very strong heal on single target and AoE healing when detonate. I've thinking Zen Sphere may uses like a "DoT" effect but as i says it need to test.

    Sorry, for my english.
    Like I said - as a Brewmaster it ticks for about 8k damage on the lowest HP target within 10 yards every 2 seconds. With a 20sec duration that's 10 ticks. 8k x 10 ticks = 80k damage. Before any crits.

    This is as a Brewmaster. My Tiger Palms are hitting for... oh, 15-20k would be pretty generous.

    Basically I'd have to have Tiger Palms hitting for at least 40k each to out-damage Zen Sphere.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Like I said - as a Brewmaster it ticks for about 8k damage on the lowest HP target within 10 yards every 2 seconds. With a 20sec duration that's 10 ticks. 8k x 10 ticks = 80k damage. Before any crits.

    This is as a Brewmaster. My Tiger Palms are hitting for... oh, 15-20k would be pretty generous.

    Basically I'd have to have Tiger Palms hitting for at least 40k each to out-damage Zen Sphere.
    Duration of the Zen Sphere is 16 sec. therefore it ticks 8 times every 2 sec for 16 sec. For me without, stacked vengeance, it heals for 7,021 and damage for 5,341. This mean that it will causes 5,341 x 8 = 42,728 damage over 16 sec. As WW it hits little more, but yeah now i will agree with you that it can be add to rotation of WW because there are not many abilities spending a chi. (WW's mastery makes his rotation less expensive on chi)

  14. #14
    @ Nikkaszal & Feelsgood - You're both on the right track. At level 87 on my WW monk, the damage and healing aspect of Zen Sphere ticks for a bit over 10k (10,236 to be specific).

    Zen Sphere (2 chi) = 10236 x 8 = 81888 (over 16 seconds)

    Tigers Palm (1 Chi) = 15-17k per hit >50%


    To look at DPC (Damage per Chi), two tigers palms would equal 30-34k while the same DPC for Zen Sphere is more then twice that value.

    Keep in mind that Rising Sun Kick does NOT effect Zen Sphere at this time, so technically it should be hitting for 10% more then it already is.

    Ignoring the damage element of Zen Sphere, self healing of 81k over 16 seconds provides great survivability in raid environments. As of now, with a 178k health pool (mostly 399/410/425 gear), that is a sizable chunk of your health for only 2 Chi while also dealing excellent damage.

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