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  1. #181
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by volkithewarlock View Post
    Our lady should be the leader of the horde. She is the embodiment of what the horde should be. Taking land form the alliance, wanting to have it all and will stop at nothing to get what is rightfully hers. She escaped the liche kings grasp and now has no fears. Our lady will put a arrow through garroshs heart if hse has the chance. ..... I dont know many people that like garrosh, my server doesnt even defend him when the alliance kill him. Garrosh was a mistake, needs to be taken out back and shot, and hopefully someone with the true vision of the horde will take up the throne as warchief. If it is not Lady Sylvanas, atleast make it Vol'jin.


    so you want her as leader of the the horde....... for the same reasons people hate garrosh.

    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Praise REGGIE! MY BODY IS READY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  2. #182
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert the fish View Post
    certainly very true, but are we to assume that the only one that can give them purpose is Sylvanas? after all even Putress led a sizable sect of Forsaken away from Sylvanas and into demonic servitude.
    be back to continue this interesting discussion later, class is now
    I guess they could find purpose elsewhere, but to suddenly kill her off would leave a very dangerous vacuum I believe.
    I look forward to it. Left a big response on the previous page.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert the fish View Post
    Killing humans during wartime is perfectly fine, keeping them captive to perfect biological warfare on them is not so much.
    how about keeping them as a living cuckoo clock?
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  4. #184
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    how about keeping them as a living cuckoo clock?
    So I've sent ten characters through Venomspite and never noticed this guy . . . wth.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    So I've sent ten characters through Venomspite and never noticed this guy . . . wth.
    they are 2 guys, not just one

    this can probably be explained by the fact that their events only happen once per hour, so either you weren't in venomspite at X:00 AM or PM {X є N / 2 ≤ X ≤ 12} or you were there and just didn't bother reading NPC dialog lol
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Caliverne View Post
    Alliance are raiding.....

    Thunderbluff: If I hurry I have a 25% chance of stopping them, I probably won't make it in time
    No no, 25 % chance to blast them ALL off !
    Quote Originally Posted by Gin View Post
    snail due european definition is a land fish, and many many more

  7. #187
    Warchief MrApple's Avatar
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    Because she is badass and awesome. No other character in wow challenges her throne of kickass.
    Epic!

  8. #188
    Scarab Lord -Zait-'s Avatar
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    *lies down on bed with camera*

    LEAVE SYLVANAS ALONE *sobs* WHAT DID SHE EVER DO TO YOU!? *sobs*

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    BECAUSE SHE'S EVIL.

    I would say she's Arthas Lite, but she's not. She's pretty much exactly the same.
    Yes, this. I don't "hate" her but at the very least she should be charged with war crimes, probably deposed. People call Garrosh evil...for fucking what? What has Garrosh done that is more evil than slaughtering innocent farmers and raising them as undead against their will? Don't bring up Mists, I know that he's going to "become" evil, but right now, he just isn't.

    Sylvanas is an interesting character, but I think she's gone the way of Maiev - she's killed her Arch Enemy and now she's batshit crazy.

  10. #190
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salandrin View Post
    It seems, despite her unpleasant personality and disposition, people always come to the defense of Sylvanas and her well being over other faction leaders. In particular, when she's insulted or the thought of her dying comes to light, people rush to try to defend her case. And other than the obviousness of an Alliance zerg on Garrosh, people seem to always go and save Sylvanas from the said raid, in comparison to Lor'themar who is right next to UC.

    Discuss.
    Is there so much to discuss? You are not even offering a position other that you think she has an "unpleaseant personality" and that "somebody always defends her" (Other than that I get annoyed whenever somebody uses the imperative in his post - so maybe that is why Sylvanas is also often in a bad mood)

    Well...I think life handed her a lemon so to speak, so no surprise she is in a crappy mood and with 10 million subs there are probably 1 million who like her, 1 million who dislike here and 8 million who are "Who is this Sylvanas, me no read quest text?"
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Tashiketsu View Post
    Yes, this. I don't "hate" her but at the very least she should be charged with war crimes, probably deposed. People call Garrosh evil...for fucking what? What has Garrosh done that is more evil than slaughtering innocent farmers and raising them as undead against their will? Don't bring up Mists, I know that he's going to "become" evil, but right now, he just isn't.

    Sylvanas is an interesting character, but I think she's gone the way of Maiev - she's killed her Arch Enemy and now she's batshit crazy.
    when did sylvanas slaughter innocent farmers?

    if they are on lordaeron, they are on forsaken land. if your enemies are living in your lands without your permission, it's war. in war, it doesn't matter if you're a farmer or a medic, everybody is a soldier. killing enemy soldiers in war is normal.

    all who are risen by the forsaken have their choice. they can suicide and go back to how they were before. they can become enemies of the forsaken or they can join the forsaken and belong somewhere. not a single race in this game besides the forsaken give their dead oponents the chance to rise again and join them instead of just rotting away in the battlefield.

    have the "I'm so right, everyone else is so wrong" humans of stormwind ever given their enemies the chance to join them instead of dying?
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    have the "I'm so right, everyone else is so wrong" humans of stormwind ever given their enemies the chance to join them instead of dying?
    It's pretty damn clear that it's not just free will that's going on here.

  13. #193
    The Patient Malgarroth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    Why are people so against her is the real question. Most of the time its people from that play a different faction or race that complains about it.
    I thought she was an absolute BADASS in WCIII, but over time, her attitude really started to grate on me.

    Yes! Arthas killed you, we get it already, he's dead and you've got all his Val'kyr, get over it!

  14. #194
    Scarab Lord Jaxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tashiketsu View Post
    Yes, this. I don't "hate" her but at the very least she should be charged with war crimes, probably deposed.

    Sylvanas is an interesting character, but I think she's gone the way of Maiev - she's killed her Arch Enemy and now she's batshit crazy.
    War crimes? I'll just get the international criminal court on the line.

    Damn man, this is a game, not reality. She brings a much needed element of darkness to one of the factions, and lets players experience the morally grey areas of the game. We like her because while we recognize she does some crazy shit, we celebrate having a character that isn't Holier-than-thou space pope or McHonorhead. We occasionally like having a ruthless, cunning, and maniacal faction leader.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imadraenei View Post
    You can find that unbiased view somewhere between Atlantis and that unicorn farm down the street, just off Interstate √(-1).

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    It's pretty damn clear that it's not just free will that's going on here.
    it's free will. the game shows that to you on the first quests. you are risen and they tell you that you're no slave. you can join them or do something else. you decide to help them and they ask you to talk to 3 undead who weren't taking undeath well. one of them gets over it and decides to join the forsaken, another one runs away (lilian voss) and the third decides to be an enemy of the forsaken. after some time you have to fight against the "rotbrain", a group of undead people who were risen by the forsaken but decided to be their enemies and attack them out of hatred.

    after this (and much more) we go to hillsbrad. eventually we convert godfrey and friends and they join the forsaken, but in the end they betray the forsaken and murder sylvanas to conquer lordaeron and gilneas.

    than on western plaguelands you use the val'kyrs to rise the humans from westfall who are invading. those people were dying of hunger and had no homes (why do you think farmers would charge into a zombie infested land?). they died, were risen and... suddenly all their problems were magically solved. they no longer need to eat unless they are hurt. they have a place to belong to (undercity) and all they need is a coffin to rest should they want to sleep. if they went to stormwind, they'd be beggars, but now they are equals to everybody else in UC (except for sylvanas, she's above everybody). they don't really have to work anymore, and if they want to, it's just to get richer, not to survive. quoting Sedrick Calston:

    You work hard your whole life, and what do you get? Killed by a plague. Then you work even harder in undeath, and what do you get? Money, yes, and a small estate with a few pesky hangers-on
    all of the forsaken initial quests spent quite some time showing us that being one of the forsaken was a matter of choice. the problem is that most people still can't believe that someone could choose to turn into a zombie because they were always taught that being a zombie is bad.

    but if you had the choice of being dead or undead, what would you choose? (I'd take undeath over death any day lol)
    Last edited by checking facts; 2012-04-30 at 03:01 PM.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    it's free will. the game shows that to you on the first quests. you are risen and they tell you that you're no slave.
    Alright, let me make an appeal to your sense of logic.

    Is it logical to say that if I was raised as an undead by my enemies while several of my old allies are still around (I'm fairly certain there are quests like this in WPL) I'd suddenly attack my old friends? No, it's completely illogical unless every single person in that place has had a huge grudge against each other for the longest of times. You may say it isn't mind control but to act like the entirety of their free will is still intact is silly.

  17. #197
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Alright, let me make an appeal to your sense of logic.

    Is it logical to say that if I was raised as an undead by my enemies while several of my old allies are still around (I'm fairly certain there are quests like this in WPL) I'd suddenly attack my old friends? No, it's completely illogical unless every single person in that place has had a huge grudge against each other for the longest of times. You may say it isn't mind control but to act like the entirety of their free will is still intact is silly.
    If those friends would try to kill me again I would fight them. The best example of this logic is Koltira and Thassarian. Thassarian killed Koltira and slaughtered his people but they became best buddies.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Alright, let me make an appeal to your sense of logic.

    Is it logical to say that if I was raised as an undead by my enemies while several of my old allies are still around (I'm fairly certain there are quests like this in WPL) I'd suddenly attack my old friends? No, it's completely illogical unless every single person in that place has had a huge grudge against each other for the longest of times. You may say it isn't mind control but to act like the entirety of their free will is still intact is silly.
    from sylvanas' short story:

    "The Lich King falters. Your will is your own. Are you to be outcasts now in your own land? Or do we embrace the cruel cards fate has dealt us and retake our place in this world?"

    Her questions were greeted with gurgles, then a rasping, almost desperate cheer. Bony fists lifted toward the sky. These poor people: peasants, farmers, priests, warriors, lords and nobles… they hadn't yet come to grips with what had happened to them. But for somebody—anybody—to assure them that they belonged somewhere was electrifying. "We are abandoned. We are… forsaken. But when the sun rises tomorrow, the capital will be ours," she pronounced. And now they roared.

    "But what of the humans?" a young alchemist asked as the din faded. Sylvanas recognized him from the previous night's fighting. A cool intelligence flickered in his eye sockets: Lydon was his name. Already he'd come to embrace his situation, referring to humans as if they were a separate race; she made a mental note to make use of him.
    basically when you were alive, the undead were the enemy. now you are undead and you know the living will think of you as the enemy. they may be of the same race, but their differences are enough for them to be considered something completely different and they know humans won't want them back. it's just like on velen's short story, when the draenei started fighting back at full strenght against the homeless, weak and toothless humans. it's all about survival.

    however, choice still exist. they could go back to humans (and they would execute them lol). they could just kill themselves. they could run away. I bet many did. but those who wanted to survive knew exactly that they had to belong somewhere if they wanted not to die. and the only ones that would give them a place to belong to were the forsaken.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    if they are on lordaeron, they are on forsaken land. if your enemies are living in your lands without your permission, it's war. in war, it doesn't matter if you're a farmer or a medic, everybody is a soldier. killing enemy soldiers in war is normal.
    The problem is that the forsaken, mainly made up of citizens of Lordaeron, and the living citizens of Lordaeron have about equal claim to the land. Neither faction has any significant royalty or has a leader endorsed by the other human kingdoms. Sylvanas, nor Varimathras, have ever been citizens of Lordaeron, let alone nobles, so have no legitimate claim for the throne. Meanwhile, the living humans are split between the scarlet crusade, who were led by Saiden Datrohan, who was a mere knight, the argent dawn, led by Tirion Fordring, who was a small-town governor and a few scattered groups of refugees, who moved to other cities and have no notable leaders. Yet these factions can not live together.

    Also, the free will thing is depicted very differently depending on the quest the zone is in. In Tirisfal glades, the raised undead get free will, in silverpine forest, only the powerful ones get free will, in eastern plaguelands, they get no free will. It's very unclear which is canon.
    A look at the warcraft novels, RPG books, games and magical french space soccer.

    Glory to person-whose-name-I-dont-know-but-rules-Kul-Tiras!

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
    The problem is that the forsaken, mainly made up of citizens of Lordaeron, and the living citizens of Lordaeron have about equal claim to the land. Neither faction has any significant royalty or has a leader endorsed by the other human kingdoms. Sylvanas, nor Varimathras, have ever been citizens of Lordaeron, let alone nobles, so have no legitimate claim for the throne.
    the amount of people who survived the scourge in lordaeron is a tiny minority. the majority of the people from lordaeron (the forsaken) chose sylvanas as their queen. her right to rule was given by her people, not by birth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
    Also, the free will thing is depicted very differently depending on the quest the zone is in. In Tirisfal glades, the raised undead get free will, in silverpine forest, only the powerful ones get free will, in eastern plaguelands, they get no free will. It's very unclear which is canon.
    in tirisfal they have free will, in silverpine they have free will and in WP they have free will. there's no evidence of any sort of mind control. (read posts 196 and 199 on this thread, I don't like to keep on repeating myself lol)

    on beta there was a mind control quest that was changed not to involve mind control because it didn't make any sense.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

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