prot paladin: mastery change and lack of holy power abilities

[Deleted]

mastery

Prot paladin mastery always focus on block. I 'm asking if other paladin player would like a mastery focus to something more "holy" related, like for example an holy bubble (like sacred shield, or the bubble created by words of glory overheal). Block would stay something that paladin will use as active defense.

Holy power abilities

Does other paladin player feel that paladin prot need more holy power abilities? Words of glory and SotR are good, but it's not fun to have only two spell usable with holy power (more with some talent). could have some other interesting (aoe tank abilities for example, a snare dispel just for example, an temporaly immunity to fear, just for example)


If paladin were a new class created now, i think i will be made differently (since holy power ressource was created after). Peharps like the monk that use a different ressource for healing/ tank-dps spe, paladin will improve by making limited prot ressource works differently.

[Lucavian]

The mastery on beta currently does have a self healing bonus to it. It increases bastion of light effect by X%. Bastion of Light is a buff proc that is put on yourself and stacks up to five times by using Shield of the Righteous. What Bastion of Light does is it increases your next Word of Glory used on yourself by X% per stack (up to 5). So on beta my paladin's Word of Glory can heal himself for up to 198% normal (with 5 stacks of bastion of light).

Also if you talent into Eternal Flame you have another option for your holy power use which is to put a hot on someone. They are trying to add more versatility, but you're not going to use the options besides SotR too often anyway so they don't need a ton of choices besides it. I could see two choices one vs physical one vs magic would have been useful.

Choice a: Word of Glory
Choice b: Shield of the Righteous (reduces physical damage taken for 3 seconds) [currently it reduces all damage taken for 3 seconds]
Choice c: Shield of the Devout (reduces magical damage taken for 3 seconds)

So then you'd have to pick one based on the fight or phase or next timer for the boss.

[Talen]

The mastery on beta currently does have a self healing bonus to it. It increases bastion of light effect by X%. Bastion of Light is a buff proc that is put on yourself and stacks up to five times by using Shield of the Righteous. What Bastion of Light does is it increases your next Word of Glory used on yourself by X% per stack (up to 5). So on beta my paladin's Word of Glory can heal himself for up to 198% normal (with 5 stacks of bastion of light).

A step in the right direction....but would better off proccing a shield.

Also if you talent into Eternal Flame you have another option for your holy power use which is to put a hot on someone.

Currently, EF looks like it will be a poor choice for Prot precisely because it'll eat HP and thus prevent the use of SotR. It'll thus have to compensate for that loss of mitigation. Of course. WoG is in the same boat but Bastion is Prot only so can be adjusted and balanced easier.

So then you'd have to pick one based on the fight or phase or next timer for the boss.

A choice of one from a selection of one right and two wrong isn't much of a decision. And Blizzards idea of trying to time the move in a game where timing is poor at best isn't better either.

EJL

[Gallahadd]

I like the change to mastery, but it's not QUITE there yet.

I think Bastion of the light is fine, stack 10% buff to WoG, nomnomnom, just leave Mastery out of it.

What Mastery SHOULD be is something like 'increases block chance by 1.25% and whenever you heal with WoG you gain a bubble for 3% of the total healing (so including overheal). I've said this a few times and I still think it's a far more fitting mastery for Protadins.

[Deleted]

Choice a: Word of Glory
Choice b: Shield of the Righteous (transfers any damg blocked into an absorb bubble of the same school)
Choice c: Shield of the Devout (allows you to "block" spells for 6 seconds)

So then you'd have to pick one based on the fight or phase or next timer for the boss.

just my opinion on what finishers we should have for 3holypwoer also means you could "pool" together b+c so they you "block" the spell being cast at you so take 30% less damg from it and the ammount you blockd becomes a absorb bubble against the folowing spell( which could also be blocked so would be quite op but only work with dive purp procs or holypower pooling)

it also means mastery is better until you cap it as it is not "physical only" in it's effect and gives paladins a useful counter to spell damg outside DP.

[ipoststuff]

I like the new mastery, at least its something different. Comes down to personal opinion there.

About holy power finishers. I think prot having 2 is very ok. Remember when we had like 7 seals? How useful were they?
Tbh i wish they merged wog and inq for ret.

[learntotank]

Everything is fine right now. Really they just need to release more content and raise the level cap to 90 so we can see how we scale and perform then.

[Gamdwelf]

at least prot has a damage and a healing holy power dumps, holy needs a damage holy power dump.


Warning: Don't derail the thread topic. There's already a thread for Holy, and more specifically, for Holy damage changes. - Malthans

[Malthanis]

• Mastery: Divine Bulwark now also increases the effectiveness of Shield of the Righteous.

It was mistakenly under Holy's changes, but how about that damage buff?

[learntotank]

• Mastery: Divine Bulwark now also increases the effectiveness of Shield of the Righteous.

It was mistakenly under Holy's changes, but how about that damage buff?

I expect they mean it's going to increase the buff you get for 3 seconds after using it (also called SotR), not the actual damage of SotR.

That would make the most sense.

[Malthanis]

I expect they mean it's going to increase the buff you get for 3 seconds after using it (also called SotR), not the actual damage of SotR.

That would make the most sense.

For whatever reason, that didn't cross my mind. I'll have to hop on when I get home from work to give it a look.

[Gallahadd]

very nice change, each new mastery takes us a step in the right direction, now they just need to turn the lol WoG is no 90% overheal section into a bubble and we're good to go!

[Deleted]

I expect they mean it's going to increase the buff you get for 3 seconds after using it (also called SotR), not the actual damage of SotR.

That would make the most sense.

Gotta say, checking on PTR I can't see any chance with 0 mastery or 33% mastery, neither on damage reduction nor on the time it lasts.

[learntotank]

Gotta say, checking on PTR I can't see any chance with 0 mastery or 33% mastery, neither on damage reduction nor on the time it lasts.

Just got on Beta after raid and there is no difference in damage on SotR with Mastery reforging or reforging out of it.

So either there's something missing or it just isn't implemented yet.

very nice change, each new mastery takes us a step in the right direction, now they just need to turn the lol WoG is no 90% overheal section into a bubble and we're good to go!

I don't get why people keep saying this. You'll SotR as much as possible to keep the buff up while having spare Holy Power (Boundless Conviction) ready to use if you do spike and need a little heal.
Between the Bastion of Glory buff and our 4 piece you can probably do ridiculous WoG healing with just one Holy Power.

[Feralza]

paladins have a holy tree , why do they need more holy abilties in the protection tree. they have enough mastery is great the way it is

[Talen]

I don't get why people keep saying this. You'll SotR as much as possible to keep the buff up while having spare Holy Power (Boundless Conviction) ready to use if you do spike and need a little heal.

Because you'll be relying on your healers to help with spikes. That extra HP from BC? It'll likely be spent on maintaining the SotR buff as much as possible, just as you say, and on possibly compensating for misses and other mishaps. The short duration makes it hard to time, especially because the game simply isn't built around that mechanic. Thats going to be the problem with Blizzards AM mechanic right now.

The new Mastery is a step in the right direction because it plays to the paladins stereotype, and strengths and toolkit. Its let down by the fact that it relies on HP...which may be scarce if its all going on SotR....and will likely simply lead to overhealing.

So, a step in the right direction but we have to see what what the final values are to see if the system actually works. At least the Mastery isn't a simple boring block.

EJL

[learntotank]

Because you'll be relying on your healers to help with spikes. That extra HP from BC? It'll likely be spent on maintaining the SotR buff as much as possible, just as you say, and on possibly compensating for misses and other mishaps. The short duration makes it hard to time, especially because the game simply isn't built around that mechanic. Thats going to be the problem with Blizzards AM mechanic right now.

The new Mastery is a step in the right direction because it plays to the paladins stereotype, and strengths and toolkit. Its let down by the fact that it relies on HP...which may be scarce if its all going on SotR....and will likely simply lead to overhealing.

So, a step in the right direction but we have to see what what the final values are to see if the system actually works. At least the Mastery isn't a simple boring block.

EJL

Don't know if you can read.

Was replying about adding a Guarded by the Light mechanic to Paladin's when it simply isn't needed right now.

-Estra

[Talen]

Don't know if you can read.

You made a comment that implied you didn't know why people kept saying either

1: it was a very nice change
2: that it took the mastery in the right direction
3:that WoG was "lol" WoG
or 4: that they needed to change the WoG aspect of the mastery to a shield.

You then made a comment about keeping SotR up as much as possible, and then effectively contradicted that with the assertion that BC will ensure extra HP floating around as well when its far from clear BC will allow anything much more than the occasional WoG if you're prepared to sacrifice the SotR buff for a period of time. You then claimed this extra HP would help with spikes which again implies not using it on SotR.

Technically, the two goals are incompatible...because SotR only last 3s, what you'll often do with those 5 HP (when you actually manage to get them) is SotR>>>CS>>>SotR. Of course, one could argue that magic damage will result in WOG being used instead.

Was replying about adding a Guarded by the Light mechanic to Paladin's when it simply isn't needed right now.

Which means you are simply overlooking the effectiveness and worth of the mastery in a situation where healers keep the tank at or near full health. The Mastery becomes of much less value and worth if 90% of the heal is wasted.

So yes - a GbtL style overshield would be a far better proc than simple healing because it would ensure the value of the Mastery wouldn't be squandered for 95% of the fight. It still leaves the various issues with regard to Active Mitigation and the availability of resources needed to use the system and how they interact with other systems such as talents but a shiled that will be of use at every point in the fight will always be better than a heal which has a fair chance of losing its worth due to overhealing.

EJL

[learntotank]

You made a comment that implied you didn't know why people kept saying either

1: it was a very nice change
2: that it took the mastery in the right direction
3:that WoG was "lol" WoG
or 4: that they needed to change the WoG aspect of the mastery to a shield.

You then made a comment about keeping SotR up as much as possible, and then effectively contradicted that with the assertion that BC will ensure extra HP floating around as well when its far from clear BC will allow anything much more than the occasional WoG if you're prepared to sacrifice the SotR buff for a period of time. You then claimed this extra HP would help with spikes which again implies not using it on SotR.

Technically, the two goals are incompatible...because SotR only last 3s, what you'll often do with those 5 HP (when you actually manage to get them) is SotR>>>CS>>>SotR. Of course, one could argue that magic damage will result in WOG being used instead.



Which means you are simply overlooking the effectiveness and worth of the mastery in a situation where healers keep the tank at or near full health. The Mastery becomes of much less value and worth if 90% of the heal is wasted.

So yes - a GbtL style overshield would be a far better proc than simple healing because it would ensure the value of the Mastery wouldn't be squandered for 95% of the fight. It still leaves the various issues with regard to Active Mitigation and the availability of resources needed to use the system and how they interact with other systems such as talents but a shiled that will be of use at every point in the fight will always be better than a heal which has a fair chance of losing its worth due to overhealing.

EJL

Is GbtL overheal shield nice? Yes.
Is it needed? No.

What people obviously don't understand because I see like 5 posts a day about it on this board, is that even if WoG is overheal guess what, you're now topped off and it has served it's purpose: TO MAKE SURE YOU DON'T DIE.
To ask for it to create a shield so you don't feel "cheated" for "wasting" Holy Power is beyond retarded and just adds extra fluff to an ability that simply doesn't need it.

If you don't want to feel cheated about it, then either don't use WoG when it's going to be overheal or think about how to use it ahead of time so you do get the most out of it.

Not hard.

[Elathi]

Newest iteration of mastery makes me slightly apprehensive, if only because it seems like it accounts for too much. More dps, mitigation, and healing capability from one stat. (If I'm interpreting it correctly. And yes, reading above, I realize it's either not implemented or possibly a mistake.)