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  1. #1

    Do you think Rogues will be more fun to play in MoP?

    One of the chief complaints players made when citing why they didn't play the Rogue class was that the class itself was boring to play. Do you think Blizzard changed enough of the basic play style of the Rogue class to make it more fun, or is pretty much the same combat system that has been in place since Vanilla WoW?

  2. #2
    I actually think that Assassination is in a pretty good place, mechanics-wise. The only thing that's awkward about it the high energy cost of Mutilate. It leads to certain situations where the rogue is pretty much unable to act. But apart from that - it makes sense, it's fluid, it's not overcomplicated, I find it fun.

    Subtlety is also pretty interesting. I think it suffers from the same flaws like some other classes since Cata. Too complicated, to messy. Too many buttons. Too distracting. There's nothing wrong with "simple" mechanics as long as it isn't dumb and plain boring. Simple is effective, simple has the potential for great improvement and perfection. I think they clearly over-complicated several specs in Cata. Warlocks are a goddamn MESS, totally ridiculous. The prot warrior is overladen and unnecessarily fiddly.

    The only rogue spec that in my opinion is a bit shallow and a bit too repetitive is combat. There's really not much to it. Not because you're not pushing 12-18 buttons all the time, but because there's no particularly dynamic coherence to it.

  3. #3
    dunno about all that stuffs, but im leveling my rogue for glyph of disguise <3

    also im pretty rogue plays quite a bit differently from classic->Cata through energy management and rotations.

    if you're getting bored of stabbing stuff in the back then try something else maybe?
    Gamers are too obsessed with the death of games. Imagine if all that energy was channeled into the LIFE of games.

  4. #4
    One of the chief complaints players made when citing why they didn't play the Rogue class was that the class itself was boring to play.
    Huh? Rogues are boring? When did this happen? Here I've leveled two rogues to 80+ and you're telling me rogues are *boring*? You say "players" but do you actually mean "one of *my* chief complaints"?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Linzo View Post
    dunno about all that stuffs, but im leveling my rogue for glyph of disguise <3

    also im pretty rogue plays quite a bit differently from classic->Cata through energy management and rotations.

    if you're getting bored of stabbing stuff in the back then try something else maybe?
    I'm not trying to turn this into an argument but I played a Rogue in Vanilla WoW, got deployed and didn't play again until Cataclysm. The only thing that had changed from Original WoW to Cataclysm was Revealing Strike. It was like I didn't miss a beat, haha! I personally think the Rogue class is fun to play (particularly in PVP), but a lot of people in the past felt like all three specs played exactly the same, and that the rotation was one of the more bland ones. I was just wondering if they might have changed it up a bit to where each class is a little more interesting to play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashiketsu View Post
    Huh? Rogues are boring? When did this happen? Here I've leveled two rogues to 80+ and you're telling me rogues are *boring*? You say "players" but do you actually mean "one of *my* chief complaints"?
    Oh, I never said I thought that, but probably about 10 months ago when Ghostcrawler was addressing why Rogue was the least played class two of the reasons he gave were that "Rogues don't bring anything unique to a raid," and the other reason was that players didn't think Rogues were fun to play. :P Clearly those of us who play Rogues full time will disagree with that!
    Last edited by Jersovic; 2012-04-29 at 12:23 PM.

  6. #6
    Herald of the Titans
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    i like to be a rogue... making them even better? yes please!

    but i cant say what the mop changes are gonna do for us.

    oh and, i leveled 3 rogues up to maxlvl just because they are so much fun to lvl up

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghul View Post
    i like to be a rogue... making them even better? yes please!

    but i cant say what the mop changes are gonna do for us.

    oh and, i leveled 3 rogues up to maxlvl just because they are so much fun to lvl up
    I have three level 85 Rogues too! While Rogue may be the least played class those of us who play the Rogue class truly love it! (I always wanted to be a ninja when I was a kid.)

  8. #8
    Anyway, point is all classes have changed quite a bit since even Wrath of the Lich King, it's a completely different game compared to Vanilla! Mists of Pandaria won't bring such huge changes to classes as Cataclysm (Unless you're a warlock...) but there's still going to be a lot of improvement going on. That's just how Blizzard works.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tashiketsu View Post
    Anyway, point is all classes have changed quite a bit since even Wrath of the Lich King, it's a completely different game compared to Vanilla! Mists of Pandaria won't bring such huge changes to classes as Cataclysm (Unless you're a warlock...) but there's still going to be a lot of improvement going on. That's just how Blizzard works.
    That's disappointing. There was actually a thread here in the Rogue sub forum at the time Ghostcrawler announced that they wanted to make the Rogue class more fun to play. When people asked if this would happen in 4.3 the response was that "a massive overhaul of the Rogue class will have to be done in the next expansion." I'm a little sad that they didn't follow through. :-(

  10. #10
    Can you provide links to these things? I don't remember GC saying anything like what you're quoting him as saying...

  11. #11
    Well it's certainly not a "massive overhaul", but all three specs and their rotation got somehow polished in MoP. I guess thats general direction of the expansion, check "core ability" strings in this post: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ta-Build-15650. They obviously want every spec to have somewhat easily described rotation. Naturally, theorycrafters might find a better (and more complicated) rotation by including additional abilities and such. But I guess it's inevitable.

    As for current rogue changes, I think that all our specs got improved. I like that Combat officially doesn't use Rupture any more but gets RvS debuff to track instead. I like that Assassination no longer has clumsy Backstab execute and it gets a bit less boring by introducing a proc into it's gameplay. And finally, I like that they reduced number of finishers Subtlety uses and that they have a clear intention for Backstab and Hemorrhage usage.

    All three talents from the final tier can also change our rotation quite a bit, depending on encounter-specific mechanics. And finally, we get a new cooldown to play around with!

  12. #12
    I will be blunt and to the point.

    Negatives:

    1. Combo Point generation is too slow (Loss of Ruthlessness is very noticeable)
    2. There are times where all the specs can become energy starved, and the CP generators don't hit hard enough to justify such high energy costs.
    3. No burst from CP generators, Finishers, openers and crit values way down for a "Rogue" archtype which in RPG's is known for crit.

    Positives:

    1. Improved utility with off hand non lethal poison.
    2. Lots of defensive/mobility talents for all specs to choose from now
    3. FoK generates CP and Crimson Tempest is a nice finisher.

    Overall, I believe Rogues will be more fun to play in MoP if they can solve two of the three problems. Preferably CP generation and crit values. I think they want energy to be used wisely, and be a choice, but it is underwhelming when yellow damage doesn't matter much so it is counter to that goal of opportunity cost. The utility all Rogue specs are gaining is interesting, but the specs don't stand out at the moment. Especially Sub and Combat from a PVE point of view.

  13. #13
    I'd have to say that very, very little is changing in terms of actual play*. It's going to be smoothed out a bit, rogues are no longer severely punished for target swapping, finally have AoE back, and as with every beginning of expansion, haste and crit are very, very low. Behind the scenes, a lot of damage has been moved to passive, recup was taken out of subtlety's bag of bonuses (assuming rupture will be used... if not, it's just easier), and at the beginning it's going to feel slow. Utility should be up a bit, and Growl (Symbiosis) is looking more than a little silly, but that's about the whole of changes.

  14. #14
    ti love the new talents for rogues especially leech poison and burst of speed. with leech we rogues can solo most raids now and with burst of speed just to make it faster

  15. #15
    I'll be blunt aswell
    I have a feeling that if the current state goes through into MoP, many people will reroll to other classes. At the moment the only thing rogues are good for is the glyph of disguise and that got nerfed badly recently. Out of the 3 specs, I'd say muti looks to be the most solid and 'complete'. Combat and Sub play exactly the same now, same rotation etc, only big cd's differ a bit. I still have no idea why can't we stack cp's on ourselves instead of a mob, monks have that so why not us?
    Right now,around 75% of our damage comes from passives, that means autoattacks and such. That's terribly fun I'd say...sinister strike hits for less than a normal attack...
    Not to mention, most of the glyphs are totally useless, at least with other classes I got into a bit of a debate what to pick, but with rogues I can't find one reasonable glyph.
    Rogues will need a lot of work to play 'fun'. I don't want another expansion where for the first few tiers we aren't wanted.

  16. #16
    I'm strongly considering jumping ship to a Warlock, Mage or Monk. I dearly hope that our talents will be getting another pass, because some of them are so poor it's hilarious. Nightstalker provides a 5% overall increase in speed while stealthed, and it's a whole talent point. Redirect without a CD may as well be CP on the rogue, and if it were that, it'd be much more practical to use and more interesting graphically. I've disagreed with Prep before, and I don't think I need to go on a diatribe why, but it seems really pointless.

    It looks like the ideas are there at a very basic, rudimentary level, but the tree looks really stale. Warlocks and Death Knights in particular get some really great looking new abilities through the talent system and rogues don't really get much at all to be excited about. Rogues have been playing the exact same class since day 1; possibly the biggest change to being a rogue was when they changed the energy tick rate from .5/sec to 10/sec.

  17. #17
    Rogues got shafted in MoP big time. We got nothing interesting and nerfs across the board. I will only play Rogue so I'll be retiring from the game if it stays like this (at least until they are forced to buff us through the roof)

  18. #18
    There is a reason why rogues are the least class played. (At the moment the amount of rogues is higher than normal because of legendary daggers and FOTM). But in MoP rogues will be at the state like in T11-T12 content.

    Rogues aren't getting any big changes, like the other classes. The "rotations" are pretty much the same since vanilla. I love the rogue class, i love the concept, but i hate the state rogues are in WoW and i stopped playing at the beginning of cata. With MoP i don't see any change which makes me want to try something out. There is nothing new which excites me to try out.

    For example i have a druid tank as an alt, if i look at the druid talent tree i can think of at least 6-7 talents which get me excited to try out. If we look at the rogue talent tree, most of the abilities are ripped from the sub tree and spread over the tree. Most of the talents are PvP focused and has very little advantage in PvE.

    For me it feels like Rogue lost the connection, all the other classes and their mechanics evolved over the years, the rogues ones are still the same with some small bandaid fixes. For example instead of giving rogues combo points on themselves we get redirect and we have to put a talentpoint in it to remove the cooldown. Paladins and Monks have combo points too and their design is way more evolved than the rogue ones.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Porimlys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vital View Post
    Rogues got shafted in MoP big time. We got nothing interesting and nerfs across the board. I will only play Rogue so I'll be retiring from the game if it stays like this (at least until they are forced to buff us through the roof)
    You're speaking of the game in past tense, it's not even out yet :P

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Findme View Post
    There is a reason why rogues are the least class played. (At the moment the amount of rogues is higher than normal because of legendary daggers and FOTM). But in MoP rogues will be at the state like in T11-T12 content.
    No it will be much much worse this time. They went out of their way to gut every single aspect of rogue pvp this time. So the numbers will be there lowest ever because as is rogues are useless for pvp on beta and not fun in pve (I love every spec being 80% passive dmg yay..) And since rogues rarely get big changes after beta gets going its screwed.

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