Humanity in animals

[Deleted]

No, what you see is domestication and expectation for a free meal time and if they would evolve intelligence people wouldnt like it because guess what men needs something stupid enough to be around them all the time without questioning their slavery. Not that i dont believe that there are different forms of intelligence but do you really think animals reflect their actions? For me its just men interpreting their mindset into actions of animals. Like when a dog stays at the side of his dead owner = grief, tiger doesnt share food with vultures even though he is stuffed = greed.
People just wish that animals would understand them, shown by all those talking animal movies and dogs saving lives, but really think about, if you dont feed your dog or cat, you think they have moral issuses eating a piece of you just because you where their beloved owner? Or kill all the puppies in front of the mothers eyes will it make them "hate" you? also people asume that humanity and intelligence comes only paired with shiny eyes and soft fur, because well those ants are just ugly and their role deployment which resemble a state and farming fungi or shepherding lice herds, anybody could do that, no humanity in there because them ants dont care about us the super cool humans until we destroy their hive. But ohhh look at that cute little dog he just waved his paw at me like a human does, so cute, here have a snack good boy, he tottally is like us!

Animals are animals, humans are humans that sometimes are below animals because animals wouldnt try to massacre a whole lot of their kin just for the funzies.

[Deleted]

No where did i say or tell people how to spend their money, i simply said i find it staggering how much money they spend on their pets, hell i have had friends easily drop 10-15k on trying to save a cat from terminal cancer only to put it down twos weeks after. And I know more than a few people that are going to leave vasts amounts of money in their wills to pet charities.

In your previous post you implied that the money would be better spent on other causes. What I'm wondering is what makes spending your disposable income on pets worse than on other non essential things - otherwise why mention it? People blow 10 or 15k on various, non essential things all the time, yet it's you find it mind-boggling that people do it for the pets they love? If you fail to understand how people would spend whatever they could afford to cure an animal that has brightened their day for often more than a decade and they've come to love as a family member, the problem probably lies with your ability to empathize rather than people's priorities being askew.

[Sivick]

rampent anthropomorphization! Flies are related to you too on the genetic level, doesn't mean they have human emotions.

[Deleted]

rampent anthropomorphization! Flies are related to you too on the genetic level, doesn't mean they have human emotions.

Of course not. Humans have human emotions, animals don't. Humans have developed to a point where we can generalize and classify emotional states of mind and via rough generalizations we've come to a somewhat close agreement on what certain emotions feel like.

However, this doesn't mean that animals don't have emotions at all, even if rudimentary. Obviously, a dog or a monkey is unable to define love as a human does it due to lack of language and descriptive powers, but seeing as a monkey's brain is composed very similarly to a humans, what makes you think that it doesn't have emotions?
Fact of the matter is, most of the feelings we go through on an every day basis, is a product of chemical response to stimuli, either physical or psychological, such as things going against us or going our way. Those chemicals are very much present in the brains of animals, too, so do you think a monkey feels less thrilled when he gets what he desires or is denied the same thing? Why would he?

The idea that (higher)animals are basically machines that operate purely on instinct and are void of thoughts and emotions, is largely a remnant of a time where religious considerations came into play via ideas that man was created separately and animals were only present for our benefit and amusement. We've now learned otherwise and have discovered that we share up to 98% of our DNA with certain primates. Do you honestly believe that humans are the only species in the world that has a brain with a chemical reward system?

[shamestia]

We should, however, be careful when inferring our projection of right an wrong onto animals. I can assure you that your dog doesn't understand that 'I can't take the stuff I want off the table because it's generally wrong to take things that aren't yours', but instead 'I can't take the stuff I want, because my pack leader will be displeased with me and I'll feel bad'. But that in itself isn't really disappointing as it's a huge sign of intellect to be able to figure out what another creature not only wants, but expects you to do, and then actually act on it. Dogs are more intelligent than we give them credit for, but they don't share human social conventions

Of course not. Humans have human emotions, animals don't. Humans have developed to a point where we can generalize and classify emotional states of mind and via rough generalizations we've come to a somewhat close agreement on what certain emotions feel like.

However, this doesn't mean that animals don't have emotions at all, even if rudimentary. Obviously, a dog or a monkey is unable to define love as a human does it due to lack of language and descriptive powers, but seeing as a monkey's brain is composed very similarly to a humans, what makes you think that it doesn't have emotions?
Fact of the matter is, most of the feelings we go through on an every day basis, is a product of chemical response to stimuli, either physical or psychological, such as things going against us or going our way. Those chemicals are very much present in the brains of animals, too, so do you think a monkey feels less thrilled when he gets what he desires or is denied the same thing? Why would he?

That was the most contradicting post on here.

[Deleted]

That was the most contradicting post on here.

What do you mean? They're saying the same thing. I'm saying that animals don't follow human social conventions, such as 'ownership' or 'right and wrong due to X circumstances', but that doesn't mean that animals have NO emotions, which is what some people seem to argue.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't go as far as to call it humanity (and I'm an animal lover) they're just don't have that level of conscious, but some of the more cognitively capable species definitely have personalities, some more amicable and interesting than others. I get the feeling with cats and dogs (intelligent pets) a lot of it is to do with how they are raised and a little to do with their breeding. Nurture and nature shapes them, as it does humans.

[Catta]

Animals don't show greed. They don't deceive or betray. They don't lust for power or show compassion. They have no morality.

I have to ask - If you see humanity in that which does not exhibit these traits... what the hell do you define humanity as?

My cat shows greed. Monkeys are known to decieve and betray when scientists learned them poker - they also get retributive if you cheat them btw - alpha males/females lusts for power in a sense that they want to be the top dog so to speak and finally elephants are known for mourning their dead and staying at them even though its detrimental to their survival

---------- Post added 2012-04-30 at 02:49 PM ----------

Animals are honest and innocent, they don't premeditate murdering because it makes them feel good or they're angry. If animals kill it's either for food or to ensure survival for their children.

Dolphin males are known for killing smaller species of dolphins just for the sake of it...

[Deleted]

Animals don't show greed. They don't deceive or betray. They don't lust for power or show compassion. They have no morality.

Actually, they do all the things you mentioned.
deception: I remember a snake in an old Disney documentary (The Living Desert), that used her tail to fake gras. So an ant is lured which lured a hungry gecko, which was then eaten by the snake There are plenty of other faking animals (mimikry, mimesis)
lust for power: lions, wolves and other animals living in herds always have an alpha male dominating the other ones
compassion: the inferior male is always spared

[Deleted]

Then again, I do enjoy the taste of whale, which I sampled in Norway...to me, most seafood isn't that smart anyways. Still say whales are just big fish.

Well... depends on the sea animal. Whales are fairly intelligent I'd say.





Animals are our friends, love and protect them.

We're even related genetically

[shise]

So for a while now whenever I look at somewhat intelligent animals (Cats, dogs, dolphins, apes, etc) I see a slight bit of humanity in their eyes.

I am extraordinarily happy to know that what you said is not true at all.

Humanity is one of the worse things we have, we are corrupted, greedy and mostly up for anything as long as we get something out of it. I call it to be spiritual, to be kind and care about feeling at some degree.

We still have a lot to learn from those that we call animals.

[Cephilia]

I can't really see "humanity in animals" because, well, humans ARE animals and I don't see anything that special in humans. You could argue we're the most evolved species of animals, but an animal that is effectively driving it's own species as well as others in to extinction, destroying the planet they live on and suffering of both obesity and hunger, I say we're the dumbest things that have ever existed.

[Fiddycen]

"humanity" is and never will be about kindness, respect, and willingness to help each other; just look at the human world, corruption, war , crime etc
Sure those who we call Animals hunt and kill different species for food, but the point is that most of the humans likes to watch their own kind suffer, while they have the ability to help those that in need of help.

[Collegeguy]

Animals can feel emotion just like humans do OP, but it is still not the same thing. You shouldn't believe it is either. Their brain is just not as developed in that area as a human for multiple, evolutionary reasons. The frontal lobe to be more specific is far more larger and has a lot to do with emotion. Many animals lack that area which was developed for millions of years because humans are social animals that can't survive without some form of a social structure or pack. Humans tend to go insane, get lonely, or just die if they are exiled from human contact. No, it's not the same thing as humans.

Many animals evolved outside of dependence on a social structure from their own species, so they lack it considerably. Small house cats are probably in this area. Lions are more developed than house cats. Dogs were bred from wolves, and they evolved around a pack. They were bred even further into human social life and can show facial memorization only comparable to humans. Not even monkeys can demonstrate it. They probably feel emotion extremely similar to a human. Cats, goldfish? No. Funny enough, Apes/monkeys have been proven to not be as developed as a dog in intelligence and emotion. Dolphins are very developed.

[FathomFear]

Last week I woke up to find my cat purring in my face. I noticed that he clearly had something in his mouth--it was a treat from a handful I had given him the previous evening. He proceeded to drop it on my pillow, rubbed his nose in my face, and then he sat down at the foot of my bed.

I've never called things like this "humanity" though, as I don't see them as quintessentially human.

[Judge Malthred]

I too believe some animals out there are much more intelligent then we give them credit for, for example I hate sitting through those ASPCA commercials and such that show animal abuse, I will actively mute or turn the channel because to me it's just saddening.

Then again, I do enjoy the taste of whale, which I sampled in Norway...to me, most seafood isn't that smart anyways. Still say whales are just big fish.

Whales be mammals yo!

http://www.ecokids.ca/pub/eco_info/t...es/mammals.cfm

[strangebreed]

WTF, honestly you reinforce every single stereotype for people that are too attached to their pets, how do you equate better use to genocide or keeping other humans in cages. Also have you ever heard of educating people, why do you think we have it so much better, because we are educated (most of us anyway). Also to further my point the amount of resources such as water, land space and even emissions just to feed your pet is considerable. I love how their is so much advocacy for saving pets at shelters and how they all care for pets but your quite happy to feed you pets other domesticated animals. Anyway I guess i have never had an attachment for animals and will never understand but it still amazes me.

Nilan yes I don't deny animals each have their own unique traits and emotions, but they still have no morals or understanding of right or wrong, they are only taught behaviors. But this doesn't deny the fact that many people grow unhealthy attachments to an animal and think they are something more than they are.

if you get down to it children/people are taught morals, just like the animals. Humans are trained if you really think about it just the way animals are, you could even say with the way you are looking at it then that we have no morals only trained behaviors as well. leave a child out in the wild (saying if it survived of course) it will have no morals. it would not think biting/hurting other people is wrong, it wouldn't think stealing is wrong, get my point? All morals are taught. Stealing being wrong is a social convention. I'll stop before i go way off the line with some other things such as mating... and such.

I'm not saying animals have morals. Or even that people do. I'm just saying really think for a minute about trained behaviors for both humans and animals and social conventions that you could even say exist in the animal "world". Lets say theres a pack of wolves, u have the alpha male and female, in our words from their behavior its wrong for lower members of the pack to mate with the alpha female or eat before the alpha or with it the alpha without permission, you very easily put our words in there and say that social convention for them. ok ok i'll stop, i have feeling i went way off topic. Humanity and animals are one in the same because we are animals, if you ask me.

[Aalyy]

So for a while now whenever I look at somewhat intelligent animals (Cats, dogs, dolphins, apes, etc) I see a slight bit of humanity in their eyes. I really don't know why I think this or if anyone else feels the same way, but I thought I'd share my thoughts with you all.

I know all species of animals are related to us in some way or fashion, but I just can't help but feel as though they relate to us in many ways. For example, for me to harm any of the animals listed above would feel like the equivalent of harming a person to me.

Am I just strange?

No you're not. I wouldn't call it humanity as they are not human but what you are seeing is likely intelligence, emotions, thought, etc. Science is discovering animals have much richer lives than we thought. They have emotions, likes, dislikes, thought processes, they make decisions, recognize consequences, comminicate, and are far far more complicated than we have given them credit for in the past.

[fizzbob]

humans think about what they're doing, how it's wrong, and they'll choose to do it anyway

not sure animals, even dolphins or apes, etc, can do that. sure dolphins and chimps will murder their own species for fun. but that's not a demonstration of KNOWING it's wrong or why it's wrong

humans are one of a kind because we choose to fuck each other over for our own benefit.

[Korie]

They're copying our lifestyle! we'd better get ready for an invasion, hide yo kidz hide yo wife! the cats are comming